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Because of the way the Jinx changes work, it'll be a rework-level relearning of mechanics and damage

Bern·May 20, 2015·3 votes·561 views

AS changed at every part of the game = all previous muscle memory for Jinx AAs is useless. It's not like casters, where a simple numbers change makes no difference in the responsiveness of the champion or how they handle; AS changes are changes to the very way you have to interact with the champion when they're AA based.

Q won't be worth maxing first anymore, because having just a single point in it provides enormous passive benefits, but putting another point in it only gives 10% more AS -- the passive AS gains are much better than the gains from leveling the skill relative to the flat damage and slow increase on w. Instead, It'll be q max until rockets are at a good range for the matchup, then w>q>e max. This also means her damage output at each stage of the game is even more drastically variable (since a lot of it is more dependent on skillshots). Hitting w will matter more for damage, and it's literally a 1s delay skillshot. Additionally, she'll lack a strong level 9 powerspike.

I stand by these changes being counterintuitive and unnecessary. The results of the changes will put Jinx in a bad place, make her kit level awkwardly if played optimally, reduce the reliability of her damage, and give her a terrible time to payoff ratio for her scaling (powerspiking after lane is not good for an immobile AD without %hp damage steroids).

Seriously reconsider these changes.

7 Comments

AHeroNamedHawkeMay 20, 20152 votes

Jinx is currently the best ADC in the game, and you're saying a 35% AS nerf at level 9 will ruin her?

Please share whatever you're smoking.

BernMay 20, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Charles Barklius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7edV87lE,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-05-20T08:45:08.196+0000)

Jinx is currently the best ADC in the game, and you're saying a 35% AS nerf at level 9 will ruin her?

Please share whatever you're smoking.

35% AS is 1050 gold in free stats. It's a huge difference.

Also, AS% changes don't matter unless they change outcomes for harass and all-ins, and both are affected -very- negatively by this change. Between the R nerf from the last patch and this nerf, Jinx is going to start losing a lot of all-ins she previously won. Furthermore, her rocket harass will lose a lot of reliability, since switching to rockets after 3 stack minigun kept the AS for that rocket, making that rocket much smoother and easier to hit someone -just- in range with.

AHeroNamedHawkeMay 20, 20152 votes

{quoted}

35% AS is 1050 gold in free stats. It's a huge difference.

Also, AS% changes don't matter unless they change outcomes for harass and all-ins, and both are affected -very- negatively by this change. Between the R nerf from the last patch and this nerf, Jinx is going to start losing a lot of all-ins she previously won. Furthermore, her rocket harass will lose a lot of reliability, since switching to rockets after 3 stack minigun kept the AS for that rocket, making that rocket much smoother and easier to hit someone -just- in range with.

A 35% AS nerf is 0.21875 attacks per second due to her low base AS

That is a barely noticeable amount unless you are autoattacking someone for 7 seconds with minigun

In teamfights you are generally in rocket form which has nothing to do with minigun, so all this nerf does is make her slightly weaker to diving bruisers (the thing thats supposed to kill an immobile ADC)

And why exactly is a hyperscaling AoE crit monster winning all ins in lane? I was under the impression you traded power early game for that sort of thing

NoMonkuMay 20, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Charles Barklius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7edV87lE,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2015-05-20T08:55:23.410+0000) And why exactly is a hyperscaling AoE crit monster winning all ins in lane? I was under the impression you traded power early game for that sort of thing

Buh my freelo champion QQ

Anyways the nerf is okayish I feel. She is incredibly oppressive now and I feel she has way too much free power, so I am personally not surprised at the nerf, I'm actually amazed it took so long for it to happen. She was the only one who hasn't been touched in awhile so now she gets the same love.

BernMay 20, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Charles Barklius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7edV87lE,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2015-05-20T08:55:23.410+0000)

A 35% AS nerf is 0.21875 attacks per second due to her low base AS

That is a barely noticeable amount unless you are autoattacking someone for 7 seconds with minigun

In teamfights you are generally in rocket form which has nothing to do with minigun, so all this nerf does is make her slightly weaker to diving bruisers (the thing thats supposed to kill an immobile ADC)

And why exactly is a hyperscaling AoE crit monster winning all ins in lane? I was under the impression you traded power early game for that sort of thing

AS differences play into both kiting (higher AS = faster windup = less time in the same place) and how many autos you can get in before someone gets out of range or before they kill you. Getting even one less auto is a loss of damage equivalent to your AD, which is an incredible nerf. At level 9, that's over 100 damage lost because of the nerf. Let that sink in. -Over 100 damage.-

Jinx trades good all-ins for poor poke and harass in lane. w is easy to dodge (it wasn't that long after Jinx got released that pros were complaining that no one should ever get hit by it), and rocket autos splash and push the lane, which is undesirable unless you're already ahead since Jinx has no way to escape a gank. She gets to scale well because she's massively gankable and completely immobile, both of which continue to prove to be liabilities worth never playing a champion over (Hi, MF) -unless- you scale that well. Jinx gets a power profile with a good allin post-6 in exchange for the unreliability of her poke and the issues she has with being ganked. (There's a reason you almost never see a competitive Jinx pick without a Thresh right beside it.) She gets raw damage in exchange for a loss of safety. She trades one kind of early game power (being able to shove without consequence) for another (being able to allin well once she has her ult). This is just how League balance works.

To be clear, Jinx does have a weak early game, and it's completely abusable by champs like Ashe, Graves, Caitlyn, and hell, even Quinn. (Quinn is actually a total nightmare of a lane for Jinx because of the blind.) She can either get poked to death or out allin'd by most champs before she gets her ult. Most people simply don't understand how to abuse her relatively weak early or bully her properly with their champ.

By your logic, by the way, I could ask why Trist -- who essentially scales better than Jinx -- gets to allin lanes harder than Jinx does. (It's because she can't freeze.) Different champions give up different things to have different power profiles. -This is why League can be interesting.- You may dislike the tradeoffs Jinx makes, but it doesn't mean she isn't making tradeoffs.

Iron Angel 2k3May 20, 20151 votes

If everything you've said here is true, then I applaud riot.

lolipopevelynnMay 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

AS changed at every part of the game = all previous muscle memory for Jinx AAs is useless. It's not like casters, where a simple numbers change makes no difference in the responsiveness of the champion or how they handle; AS changes are changes to the very way you have to interact with the champion when they're AA based.

Q won't be worth maxing first anymore, because having just a single point in it provides enormous passive benefits, but putting another point in it only gives 10% more AS -- the passive AS gains are much better than the gains from leveling the skill relative to the flat damage and slow increase on w. Instead, It'll be q max until rockets are at a good range for the matchup, then w>q>e max. This also means her damage output at each stage of the game is even more drastically variable (since a lot of it is more dependent on skillshots). Hitting w will matter more for damage, and it's literally a 1s delay skillshot. Additionally, she'll lack a strong level 9 powerspike.

I stand by these changes being counterintuitive and unnecessary. The results of the changes will put Jinx in a bad place, make her kit level awkwardly if played optimally, reduce the reliability of her damage, and give her a terrible time to payoff ratio for her scaling (powerspiking after lane is not good for an immobile AD without %hp damage steroids).

Seriously reconsider these changes.

shut the fuck up. jinx needs to be gutted, anyone that dissagrees is just defending there main waifu. get out of here and enjoy the nerfs that are coming.

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