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Juggernauts and fighters aren't doing well becuase tanks do comparable damage while having utility

MunchCrunchLunch··16 votes·818 views

and also optimally using the new keystone. unfortunately juggernauts are the class of champions that get their shit abused by other classes and get nerfed

steraks on adcs anyone?. grasp on ekko and maokai anyone?. the new maw helps a little but not enough. even tho i think maw is like the best item on assassins still. ad ones at least. ofcourse

grasp is god awful. it sucks at every damn point of the game. am forced to take stormraiders or thunderlords on darius. hell even fervor is a better option. make grasp better. make it a better viable option. and help fighters and juggernauts. darius winrate is dropping every patch. mordekaiser same as darius. garen is the worst. trundle has been weak since his last nerfs. chogath is awful . xin zhao and master yi are trash tier. jax is joining the trash tier top laners slowly every patch. you can't pick a fighter into a tank and survive. you have to pick either darius or darius. and hes getting weaker.

played rammus top the otherday and i outdamaged the adc. quite ludicruous stuff i can't do on fighters because they are easily shut down

i mean nautlius gets sunfire and ibg and just sits there spamming E doing ridiculous aoe damage and can often 1v2 with the stupid infinite shields

tldr : fervor nerfs hit fighters too hard. and grasp is bonkers garbage

22 Comments

WoonStruck3 votes

No, juggernauts, fighters, and divers (the ones that are struggling) aren't doing well because everything ranged (ADCs/mages) shits out so much damage that building any yourself instead of full-tank as a melee is practically suicide, especially past mid-game.

Lovelle1 votes

I will admit, when playing Quinn, nothing brings a smile to my face faster than an enemy bruiser that doesn't build obnoxiously tanky.

Critmaster Garen2 votes

i think theyre not doing well because they nerfed their items to shit, and they have only few masteries they synergize with. in some cases not even a keystone.

plus, riot buffed the shit out of their counters.

everyone whos not able to use CoC, which is most juggs, blows up in seconds no matter how tanky he builds. and with everyone running around with grievous wounds, their sustain mechanics dont help them enough either anymore.

Ralanr1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7eW08nhv,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-11-21T07:49:58.593+0000)

i think theyre not doing well because they nerfed their items to shit, and they have only few masteries they synergize with. in some cases not even a keystone.

plus, riot buffed the shit out of their counters.

everyone whos not able to use CoC, which is most juggs, blows up in seconds no matter how tanky he builds. and with everyone running around with grievous wounds, their sustain mechanics dont help them enough either anymore.

I think that's why people think tanks are doing more damage than juggernauts. Tank damage (outside of sunfire cape) is often very bursty and becomes noticeable earlier. Juggernauts (and I guess this varies) need to ramp up their damage through sustained damage.

Juggernauts however are dying too quickly to even heal themselves IMO. It really is an item problem.

Swiftstrike42 votes

MonkeyKing appears to be doing fine and so is Olaf. Nasus is doing the best of the juggs at the moment though, the changes to his R and the E max nasus has pushed him to the top.

I do feel bad for the other juggernauts who all feel weak by comparison.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

MonkeyKing appears to be doing fine and so is Olaf. Nasus is doing the best of the juggs at the moment though, the changes to his R and the E max nasus has pushed him to the top.

I do feel bad for the other juggernauts who all feel weak by comparison.

wukong isnt a juggernaut. i think olaf is classifid as one, but imo thats debatable.

Swiftstrike41 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7eW08nhv,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-11-21T08:21:21.514+0000)

wukong isnt a juggernaut. i think olaf is classifid as one, but imo thats debatable.

I was referring to them as fighters they are both doing fine. I don't think Olaf is really a juggernaut.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

I was referring to them as fighters they are both doing fine. I don't think Olaf is really a juggernaut.

i see. my mistake. olaf is officially categorized as juggernaut, but imo hes more of a diver. the cc immunity on his ult makes him at best extremely difficult to kite. its almost as good as any hard gap closer. the only thing it cant do is take him over walls.

Zero Skill Tank1 votes

its almost as good as any hard gap closer

No it's not, unless your enemy is 100% immobile. Also notice lack of hard CC almost all divers possess.

Ralanr2 votes

Uhh...Pantheon, Vi, Irelia, Xin, and Aatrox all have hard CC.

As does Diana and wukong.

Divers don't lack hard CC. Hard CC is what helps them dive.

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

That's exactly what he is saying dude. It is his argument that Olaf actually isn't a diver, because they provide hard CC which Olaf is lacking.

Olaf is clearly a juggernaut. His ult doesn't change that, riot stated that one of their design philosophies is, that the ult is allowed to overcome the general weakness of the champion (in Olaf's case kiting) for a short moment of power.

Critmaster Garen3 votes

{quoted}

No it's not, unless your enemy is 100% immobile. Also notice lack of hard CC almost all divers possess.

i said "almost". not "just as good".

to be fair, for olaf to be able to fully use ragnarok to dive into the enemy backline almost as easily as a dive fighter like jax or vi, he needs either ghost or at least a dead mans.

but when he can rack up enough movement speed, the ability allows him to just run past the enemy frontlines.

thats why i think hes more of a diver than a juggernaut. juggernauts are slow moving walls of death. olaf becomes only kitable over walls at some point of the game.

Sona Ping2 votes

{quoted}

and also optimally using the new keystone. unfortunately juggernauts are the class of champions that get their shit abused by other classes and get nerfed

steraks on adcs anyone?. grasp on ekko and maokai anyone?. the new maw helps a little but not enough. even tho i think maw is like the best item on assassins still. ad ones at least. ofcourse

grasp is god awful. it sucks at every damn point of the game. am forced to take stormraiders or thunderlords on darius. hell even fervor is a better option. make grasp better. make it a better viable option. and help fighters and juggernauts. darius winrate is dropping every patch. mordekaiser same as darius. garen is the worst. trundle has been weak since his last nerfs. chogath is awful . xin zhao and master yi are trash tier. jax is joining the trash tier top laners slowly every patch. you can't pick a fighter into a tank and survive. you have to pick either darius or darius. and hes getting weaker.

played rammus top the otherday and i outdamaged the adc. quite ludicruous stuff i can't do on fighters because they are easily shut down

i mean nautlius gets sunfire and ibg and just sits there spamming E doing ridiculous aoe damage and can often 1v2 with the stupid infinite shields

tldr : fervor nerfs hit fighters too hard. and grasp is bonkers garbage

I know win-rates aren't everything and all that but there are far more Fighters and Juggernauts in the top positions than there are tanks. Including Darius.

played rammus top the otherday and i outdamaged the adc.

Damage dealt means little or even nothing in terms of champion performance. Things like passive damage and AoE damage inflates the score and Rammus has both and builds both.

Lovelle2 votes

I remember back when it was the opposite and people made arguments that tanks were getting outclassed by bruisers. It's largely because defensive itemization isn't strong enough on it's own to allow bruisers to stay alive long enough to do damage. Bruisers are much more item dependent than tanks past mid game.

Requiemsfire1 votes

How are fighters struggling?

Ritesh1 votes

Its depressing when you're playing Darius and you can't 1v1 the enemy adc late game (looking at you Caitlyn )

JackMcSnipeyz1 votes

Depends, you mean if darius engages cait solo? Yea, he'll get kited cause that a juggernaut's weakness. If cait gets caught for as much as a milisecond - boom - pulled - slowed - executed = rip any ADC

A Basic Island1 votes

its a balance of

tanks doing comparable damage while having utility

or juggernaut having comparable tankyness while also doing tons of damage

1011001110001 votes

Not to be a shitter.

But I thought Darius E proc'd Courage of the Colossus.

But I agree that Juggs got shafted on keystones. But some of them can use Courage. Not a good prospect in overall game design, but eh.

ForgiveColour1 votes

tanks are always unviable dude

Frius1 votes

Garen qq vs Darius ,totally overshadowed

Wind Whistler1 votes

Yeah. Thanks for remembering Cho'Gath exists when no one else does. How will he ever get buffed back to viability if no one even remembers he exists in the first place?

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