If I am an AD champ into something like 
, 
or 
after 
, sitting on that 
sometimes feels really bad. It takes up an inventory spot and sometimes 
isn't necessary. 
can give the grievous wounds, but feels bad building it into them early and the caster can avoid autoing to get the debuff.
Was thinking a 
or 
item for AoE or flat damage respectively would be a great addition. Thoughts?
EthreainAmbusher6 votesWe need another mage GW item besides Morellonomicon, one that doesn't require you to finish an entire 3000 gold item before being able to counter a healing champion.
Tanks have Bramble Vest, (1000g) which builds into Thornmail (2900g) ADC/AA'ers have Executioner's calling, (800g) which builds into Mortal Reminder (2800) and Mages have Morellonomicon, (3000g) which builds into nothing.
We mage players don't have an initial GW item unlike every other class.
Pretty obvious which champions riot likes. ([zombie-nunu-tears]
Daddy Ants7 votesWe need another mage GW item besides Morellonomicon, one that doesn't require you to finish an entire 3000 gold item before being able to counter a healing champion.
Tanks have Bramble Vest, (1000g) which builds into Thornmail (2900g) ADC/AA'ers have Executioner's calling, (800g) which builds into Mortal Reminder (2800) and Mages have Morellonomicon, (3000g) which builds into nothing.
We mage players don't have an initial GW item unlike every other class.
Pretty obvious which champions riot likes. ([zombie-nunu-tears]
Yet mage itemization as a whole is some of the best in the game.
Z3Sleeper1 votesYeah he could have cut out that last line. Valid point otherwise.
EthreainAmbusher2 votesI really could've, but I wanted to leave it in.
oortoomeebreesuu3 votesif by mage itemization you mean just luden's echo itself being the worst thing ever invented, they literally monster mashed athene's unholy grail for all the same reasons: one item shouldn't give good AP, 20% cdr and reduce your need for mana by so much at the same time. So we made an item that has 20% cdr, good mana, and an insanely broken amount of damage.
luden's echo was supposed to be the "poke item" of the LC trio, but it's the burst item, the everything item.
Illabethe1 votesit you call a slew of items with the exact same mods "best in the game." Nearly half of all AP items are literally the same benefit: Move speed + Some AP.
Also, if you think Rylai's is better than Frozen mallet, horribly mistaken. It's not even better than Iceborne.
Liandry's is a joke after its % damage nerfs.
No mage items instant burst people to death. You literally have to build some noncompetitive build with Mejai's AP maxing to actually outcompete AD's.
AP's also have no Sterak's item, no real sheen exploiting except on a small number of mages, and if building for damage, can't build to counter 
Peel for my ADC1 votesyet again , the idiot strikes again on the forums lol
Illabethe1 votesBy all means enlighten us. Why are you calling yourself an idiot?
TehNACHO4 votesThe problem with that is that Mages often have the best range and the most AOE. An easy to apply Grievous Wounds by way of Morellonomicon activating on Spell Hit but for 1000g would kinda be entirely silly. If a 1000g variant exists, it would probably need a specific limitation to counter most Mages' range and AOE.
In other words, don't expect an Executioner's Calling, expect the sub 40% health requirement Morellonomicon used to have.
EthreainAmbusher1 votesI'm not saying it needs to be as cheap as 1000g, I'd do something like what this guy said:
Remove the magic pen from oblivion orb but keep it on morello, turn oblivion orb passive into grievous wounds.
Illabethe2 votes
totally has poor aoe spread.
totally has poor aoe.
totally crappy aoe.
crappy aoe.
crappy aoe.
crappy aoe.
crappy aoe.
crappy aoe.
crappy aoe.
crappy aoe.
Guess what? Almost all of these are meta.....
TehNACHO1 votesMy statement was that AP Champs tend to have the best Range and AOE. With the exception of Sivir, or MF's Ult, none of these champions' AOE comes even close to comparing. That's not to say that they have crappy AOE, which is not what I said in the first place so don't put words in my mouth, but if we're doing a direct comparison with the likes of Ziggs or Xerath or Karthus, in no world are virtually any of the champions you've mentioned (sans MF and Sivir) gonna compare in AOE and range.
Now, honestly answer me this. Where did I say that AD champs have poor AOE or did you misread and immediately kneejerk post?
Illabethe1 votesYou do realize not every mage is ranged..... and usually the range is trumped by some dash mechanic, or a longer range AD ability?
Xerath can't even use Morello effectively except his ult, because of the charge times.
Pantheon? Jinx? oh right. they exist too.
And I'm sorry. Illaoi with EC dominates almost every comparable grievous wounds setup.
Buckeye20021 votesThe point of an ADC getting the item is they constantly autoattack applying the debuff, plus they can switch targets much faster. the item is for the team, not your personal DPS, which is why most ADCs wont build it, they want 1k more damage in the post game, rather than a win.
LTK KoRo1 votesbut yknow mage player have a luxury of their GW item being actually a good item? Exe calling is cool, but mortal reminder is a shit item. Same with thornmail. Morello is clear best of these three, it's the only one which gives good stats.
EthreainAmbusher1 votesThornmail and Mortal Reminder might be shit items, but what I'm saying is that other champion classes have _starting _ items for champions with heals, and Mages don't.
Again, i'd do something like:
Remove the magic pen from oblivion orb but keep it on morello, turn oblivion orb passive into grievous wounds.
I'd also probably add 100g to the item, since it would get GW earlier -->
so from 550 when you finish it, it'd go back to 650 for more early game power.
Sound good?
LTK KoRo1 votesKeep the current cost, give it shorter duration if applied by aoe/dots and it would be fine. 1 sec of wounds on aoe/dots and 2-3 on other stuff would be fair probably
EthreainAmbusher1 votesI agree.
Illabethe1 votesMortal reminder is almost the exact same item as Lord Dominik's...... with a slightly smaller Armor pen...... What?
25% Total Armor pen is MUCH bigger than -18 Mag resistance.
LTK KoRo1 votesyou conveniently forgot that mortal reminder gives meh amount of AD while morello gives good amount of AP+some hp. That's a obvious advantage. Also, 25% Arpen isn't truly better than 18 flat MPEN. Amount of MR in game is much lower, so 18 flat pen can give you bigger damage amp than 25% arpen, mainly vs people who don't buy either of these defensive stats
Illabethe1 votesAD skill ratios are also larger (some 300-341%), whereas AP ratios are usually 40-80% with the exception of a few ults.
Characters all have innate AD, so less is not actually less. It's just already there.
You need to learn math. If More is available, a % penetration is going to vastly be superior to flat.
300 Armor = - 75 Armor. 180 Mag Resist = -18 Mag resist.
The magnitude of impact on damage is FAR different.
Mag Resist / Armor damage formulas are different.
AD usage is only limited by how fast you can attack. AP useage is generally tied to cooldowns.
P.S. 25% Pen of 72-160 base armor = -18 to -40 Armor pen. In other words, at all points of high level BASE armor, MortalR => Morellonomicon.
Buckeye20021 votesso what? It's still a good item, armor pen is good anytime
feintfiend1 votesRemove the magic pen from oblivion orb but keep it on morello, turn oblivion orb passive into grievous wounds.
Sirsir2 votesI would think a 
build path would be a generally better flex path. I know the bruiser builds are spoiled right now but it fits
Jorshamagorsh2 votesI thought about , but it already has 
, 
and 
. I tilted more towards so assassins could benefit more from the flat damage cost effectiveness rather than the HP
Sirsir1 votesHm, I don't think I want to give assassins free access to something that negates one of the few tools used to defend against them 
Z3Sleeper4 votesAssassins should be building Last Whisper at some point anyway.
Juggernauts, Divers and Skirmishers though simply have no room for this squishy statstick AD item.
Moody P2 votesyeah, we really need more slot efficient "you can't heal anymore" items...
USG Failsawce1 votestbh it needs to be changed for adcs as well.. no point getting one into 
for instance.. if no one is building armor.
and as an ad u cant rely on your mages (if you even have any) to always build 
or even tanks to ... assuming you even have any. if you have none of those, you're screwed. and can't just "welp, i better pick my teammates champs for them better next time"
either nerf healing on most champs except 'healer' champs (the better path), or give more GW options.
Anu3isII2 votes
items have been changed to % total Armor Penetration, making them generally good. And let's be fair, if no opponent builds Armor then you can murder them before they get to sustain.
Moreover, Sustain is way weaker when the champions have no form of Armor/Magjc Resistance. Sure, they get to heal a lot, but they also take a lot of damage.
The balance between GW and Healing has always been controversial. I personally am on the side of removing GW as a whole and balance all forms of sustain around it. Currently, most Sustain-based champions are already balanced around the opponent having GW, making them almost unbearable when no opponent has any form of GW. Just look at Mundo's changes over time and you will undertstand what I'm talking about.
EthreainAmbusher1 votesAlso, If you have someone with a lot of burst, namely people like Rengar, Khazix, Kayn, Zed, etc. Mudno would most likely die before he can pull off his healing, since Burst counters Sustain.
I would agree, Remove GW and reduce the amount of healing, but it would also remove counterplay options, so Riot would under no circumstances do anything with the idea.
LatetotheRace1 votesNot to mention that 
are very powerful and versatile items. Whereas are really shit in comparison.
is a bit better, but the only decent grievous wounds item is ...
Rıots Bad Client1 votes
+
Cost: 2800
+50 Ad
+10% Life Steal
Passive: Physical damage Inflicts Grievous Wounds on an enemy champion for the next 3 seconds. Active: instantly deal XX-XXX(Based on level) to an enemy champion, 45% Incomming heal on enemy champion are instead directed to you for the next 3 Seconds. While On cool down, it disables the passive.(90 second Cooldown)
Warlord Rhinark2 votes
Passive: Physical damage Inflicts Grievous Wounds on an enemy champion for the next 3 seconds. Active: instantly deal XX-XXX(Based on level) to an enemy champion, 45% Incomming heal on enemy champion are instead directed to you for the next 3 Seconds. While On cool down, it disables the passive.(90 second Cooldown)
I like the idea, but the passive seems way too gimmicky.
The healing that gets redirected is going to be reduced by the Grievous Wounds you apply to the target, meaning you actually get pitiful amounts of healing for the trade off of not having Grievous Wounds for the next minute and a half.
Just the fact that using the active completely removes your Grievous Wounds already warrants never using the active as all, as the trade off just isn't worth it.
If it was me, I'd keep the active much more simple:
ACTIVE - EXECUTIONER'S MARK: Deals 100 - 250 magic damage (based on level) to the target enemy champion, applies Grievous Wounds, and applies Executioner's Mark. Executioner's Mark deals an additional 10 - 25 magic damage (based on level) to the target every second and slows them by 25% for as long as the target has Grievous Wounds on them. (90 second cooldown).
Anu3isII1 votesI think the concept of Active is to decide if you want to All-in the opponent from the start. If you use it before attacking, you will not apply Grievous Wounds on them and you get the full Healing effect from opponents while completely denying it (so a much better Grievous Wounds).
If you want to burst a solo opponent who has sustain (for example an ADC with 
/ 
or helped by a 
) then this is the ideal item. If you can't burst them they most probably built lots of Armor and would be a better item.
Your active, while having no trade-off compared to the original, tends to be used more for kiting than killing sustained champions. The Damage is minimal and the Slow will be the only part that is significant.
Moreover, you would use the active on almost anyone, since it works in the same measure against all champions. The original concept is focused entirely on eliminating sustain, which makes it better against the desired targets.
Uwhtazn1 votesWe need an MR item that also inflicts grievous wounds like Thornmail. Abyssal Mask and Spirit Visage only offers sustain or more surviability but not against AP healing like a 
.
onlytrung1 votesMake morellicon like luden and aa, put hextech glp back to where it was (early version of roa) I like to keep GW in the higher item, but make it more powerful (reduce healing more or include shielding)