Is there any possibility of changing the damage on Soul Furnace from "+ 10 / 11 / 12 / 13 / 14% of target's maximum health" to "+ 10 / 11 / 12 / 13 / 14% of Sion's maximum health"
It just...makes so much sense. Especially with how the shield itself gets stronger the more HP he has. Even if they have to lower the ratio a little I think it would be a great improvement to his kit.
Arcade Andrew4 votesThe walrus idea is top notch
Valderis Vandala4 votesYou have to consider the gameplay ramifications of such a change. Sion dealing damage based on his own health instead of his enemy's means the ability works better when he himself is ahead but worse when he is behind. So its more snowbally with less chance of comebacks.
Considering he is a tank also means his ability will simply deal more damage to pretty much all targets (instead of dealing less to targets with less health), so he'll probably be forced to give up power elsewhere in his kit.
I hope you know what you are asking for. XD
Done253 votesI do. :D And his shield is useless when he's behind anyways because it gets instantly popped. This gives his kit a way to reward Sion players for doing all that mad jungle farm and hitting 4k HP at 40 min. Because let's be honest, past the mid game his Q becomes pretty wimpy.
Valderis Vandala1 votesAlrighty then, good luck with that.
BipolarMaelstrom1 votesI believe Sion's Q also needs a buff. What I think they could do for his Q would be adding a .1 sec reduction to his charge up for each rank. (1.5 secs to fully charge Q at full rank) That way his damage and cc is more noticeable late game. Personally I think that even when ya fully charge it, the damage seems anti-climatic late game. Sion should be rewarded with a lot more damage for charging it for a full 2 secs on a team that completely ignores him.
Done251 votesHmm, what if his Q ignored 50% of the enemy's armor? This would prevent it from exploding fragile targets like Vayne, but keep it relevant against targets like Trundle or Malphite. I think they put the armor shred on his E for that reason, but it's just too single target and too weak to be of any REAL use in a team fight.
BipolarMaelstrom1 votesI don't think a fully charged Q would blow up a late game Vayne with a bit of armor like 
. I just think that if he is able to** cc **sooner people would think less of him being unreliable as a tank. As for your idea with the armor pen, that would be nice for pushing Sion into the Juggernaut side. I think his E could be made similar to Cho gath's shout instead of being a skill- shot to push minions. Would make a more dangerous front liner.
BipolarMaelstrom1 votes[{quoted}](name=Kamikaze Shogun,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7PV1pe3c,comment-id=00030000000100000000,timestamp=2015-11-17T01:15:06.821+0000)
I don't think a fully charged Q would blow up a late game Vayne with a bit of armor like
I would actually like Sion being made more like a Juggernaut than a Tank, people in the high elos find his kit unreliable.
Done251 votesSion is definitely not a Tank. Tanks need AP for damage because their abilities scale of AP. Sion fits the Juggernaut mold to a T.
1: He builds AD to power his skills, which is where most of his damage comes from. 2: He's very immobile. 3: Very durable due to something in his kit.
Just compare him to: Garen, Darius, or AD Mordekaiser.
BipolarMaelstrom1 votesSion lacks one of the most important things for a Juggernaut "Built-in sustain"and he's currently considered an awful duelist.
Done251 votesWhile it's not sustain, he DOES have a very powerful shield. Though Riot should probably have the CD start when he activates it, not when it ends. This actually punishes you for leaving the shield up, which I think is a bit counter-intuitive.
And he does have built in sustain, of a sort. He gains 100% lifesteal during his after death state, though I think he still dies a bit too quickly atm. The life loss VERY quickly out paces the life stealing after even a few seconds.
And Garen only has sustain outside of combat. If you want to count that then Sion only needs to grab a Warmogs to qualify, which will VERY quickly turn on due to his innate HP bonuses.
BipolarMaelstrom2 votesNot all tanks rely on AP. For those that do AP/magic damage, they do not use AP runes or items, due to meh scaling, their better off using penatration runes for damage.
Done251 votesWeak scaling doesn't stop it from being there. Does Amumu get Black Cleaver/Ghostblade, or does he buy Liandry's Torment? Same for Sejuani, Nautilus, or Singed.
BipolarMaelstrom1 votesAs For my Point Saying "Not All Tanks Rely On AP" It take that back. For the builds though, ya sorta just proved my point with "Liandry's Torment" which provides both HP which a tank obviously needs, a bit of AP, and magic penatration. If a AP tank wanted to do a bit of damage for their team but also wanted more durability, items like Liandry's Torment and Abysmal scepter are built then the rest are tank items.
Done251 votesBut I wasn't contesting that Tanks build penetration? O.O
I'm just saying that Amumu would prefer AP items like Rylai's to Frozen Mallet.
BipolarMaelstrom1 votesRylais is also another exception for tanks since it comes with a nice amount of HP and slows from ablities, btw sorry about my first comment, honestly didn't not really feel like I would actually need to expand into the subject of what a tank could build for damage besides having just penetration runes alone. Back to the point though, putting in magic pen items and other items like Rylai's and Rod of the Ages is beneficial for any tank that wants damage while still being more durable. If they wanted attack speed Wit's End is also nice on champions like Nautilus. To anyone who builds a frozen mallet, black cleaver, or ghostblade on a AP tank is obviously trolling, breaking the meta (could be considered trolling), and obviously shows that the player could be a newbie.
Done251 votesAs in comparison to say: Increasing the base damage or scaling of it.
BipolarMaelstrom1 votesI just want Sion to be more noticeably reliable so I won't have to deal with people saying he's useless. He needs to fulfill his role somehow. At the moment his hard cc is consider unreliable, making him a bad tank. He lacks the damage/kill potential to be considered a fighter. At the moment it's hard to consider him a Juggernaut with the recent "Juggernaut Update" for 
These champions do a seemingly better job than Sion all-round.
Done251 votesYea, he needs a bit of polish.
Passive - Still too weak and barely a thing. Q - Too unreliable in teamfights or against mobile targets for not that great a reward. (Just TRY and get off a 2 second smash around a Blitzcrank, I DARE you.) W - Can shatter very quickly if you use it at the wrong time in a fight, especially if he's behind or didn't build resists. And the shield IS a large part of Sion's damage, especially against armor heavy champions. E - Good in lane, but the AP only scaling causes it to VERY quickly fall off later on. R - Only scales on bonus AD and only deals noticeable damage if he can gain momentum first. Nearly impossible to hit the back line with. Easily avoided by just walking to the side or near a wall/tower.
Now don't get me wrong, he's not BAD. He has a very respectable 50% win rate in most cases. I just think there are ways in which his power could be better expressed.
BipolarMaelstrom3 votesIt is his his shield and it is coming from his Soul Furnace which gets stronger over time. So yeah, your idea makes sense to me and I like it.
Done253 votesUpvote plz? :D I hope that the more upvotes there are the more likely a Rioter will pay attention to it.
It worked the last time when I made a topic about how silly his HP% bleed passive was!
BipolarMaelstrom1 votesFor sure, other than that would ya mind sharing your thoughts for my gameplay board for Sion about possible changes to his R?
Done251 votesMmm, making it Yordles only would be confusing. I get the feelinf you don't want to see Sion stopped by "smaller" things. If you wanted to really see Sion knocking people aside, I'd say make it people who had X% amount less than his max HP. Like a 4k HP Sion knocking aside the 1.8K HP Nami to get at Cait.
BipolarMaelstrom1 votesThanks for replying towards my gameplay board (even though I was hoping ya would post it on "my" board since it has 0 comments at the moment. As for your reply towards my pushing idea, I dislike how beefy built champions can face tank Sion's ult and laugh at his damage, especially when Sion's ult is stopped at point-blank. In my case-scenario Sion should be able to push the champion out of the way then be able to do a turnaround in lane "if he wants to", and come back to land a detonation on his target.
Done251 votesOh, sorry. Just popped off a reply on my phone before I went to go eat dinner. D:
A thing to keep in mind is that Sion is a Juggernaut, and Juggernauts aren't supposed to be mobile inside of a fight. Much like Tanks.
I can already tell that Riot would NEVER allow him to have the kind of mobility in his ult that would let him turn 180* mid charge.
Another thing is that you're not supposed to use the ult mid fight, it's how you initate into it. That's why the damage starts out low, but then scales upwards as he gains momentum.
Crett2 votesI like this idea and kinda wanted it since his release, but... To be honest, if Sion's buffed, I'd want him to get more durability rather than more damage.
Done252 votesMore durability? But he already has a spammable high power shield and gets free HP just from killing things. Riot even threw in a free temporary second life for kicks and giggles! He's certainly no Talon, who is crushed like fragile egg between Zangief's thighs. :D
Dominick Destine1 voteshe already has a spammable high power shield
Soul Furnace is not spammable. It has a 13 second cooldown that only starts ticking after the shield expires. For comparison's sake; Riven's shield has 10....6 second shield CD which begins ticking as soon as Riven activates the ability. THAT is spammable, Sion's is not.
Done251 votesSorry. I probably should have said "re-usable" shield. In comparison to say, Blitzcrank's passive.
Sion could probably stand to have his shield's cooldown start on cast, rather than on expiration.
Dominick Destine1 votesSorry. I probably should have said "re-usable" shield. In comparison to say, Blitzcrank's passive.
That doesn't make sense at all.
Point being, Sion's shield is terrible and needs buffs.
Done251 votesIt is awful. The CD really needs to be re-worked to start on cast, rather than on end.
BakedLotion2 votesI like this idea and kinda wanted it since his release, but... To be honest, if Sion's buffed, I'd want him to get more durability rather than more damage.
no pls hes already tanky as fuck if he does decent. Just give him some more dmg so he doesn't become unkillable
Brascus2 votesI don't play sion and support this
Vesarixx1 votesHaving % enemy HP scaling is usually something that's considered a good thing for a top laner to have, if anything I think his basic attacks when he is in his passive should deal damage based on how much health he has.
Done252 votesBut here's the thing, who's going to have more HP than Sion himself? Not to mention that enemy HP% is significantly less helpful for clearing minion waves, or even just dealing with low HP champions like Fiora.
Sasogwa1 votesI'd like his bonus HP from W to be immune to %health damage, so that it actually becomes a real infinite scaling. One can dream, I guess.
Done252 votesThat might be sliiightly broken. As well as confusing to see in action.
Sasogwa1 votesThat might be sliiightly broken. As well as confusing to see in action.
Tbh wouldn't change that much. We're talking changes only about champions that have %health. I can see a problem with %missing health and %current health however, in how you have to calculate that.
Done251 votesAnd imagine if someone was fighting Sion who didn't know how his kit worked. Pretend you're Garen trying to execute a low HP Sion, only for your ult to do FAR less damage than you thought it would. It would fell pretty awful wouldn't it?
Sasogwa1 votesAnd imagine if someone was fighting Sion who didn't know how his kit worked. Pretend you're Garen trying to execute a low HP Sion, only for your ult to do FAR less damage than you thought it would. It would fell pretty awful wouldn't it?
But it wouldn't be far less. You overestimate the amount of HP he gains. He gains max 1k HP in a very lategame scenario, during the rest his HP gained through W is like, a 6th/less of his HP. So far? More like 10/15% at best
Done252 votes1K is a LOT of HP. If 1K is 1/6th his HP that means he probably built NOTHING but HP and has 6k. That's not a very realistic build.
4K from Cinderhulk+Warmogs/Deadmans is a better balance, and that would make the 1k bonus hp about 25% of his total.
Sasogwa2 votes1K is a LOT of HP. If 1K is 1/6th his HP that means he probably built NOTHING but HP and has 6k. That's not a very realistic build.
4K from Cinderhulk+Warmogs/Deadmans is a better balance, and that would make the 1k bonus hp about 25% of his total.
1k is as unrealistic as the 6k HP build. It's the absolute best you would do in a game you do nothing but farm for 45 minutes. Pretty garbage reward considering all the champions having %health in their kits, right? And that you can still get melted by people that don't have it. Realistically you'd get around 500 Hp (which still requires a pretty good farm), get that with 3k HP total (which is arguably low) and there's your 1/6th
Whatever, you're convinced it would make him OP, keep your opinion.
Oh btw, Sion is not a juggernaught. A juggernaught is a tank version that is less focused around CC and more focused around damage and straight up beating the other frontline (Ratios and type of damage have nothing to do with that). Sion is bad at that. His name might be "The Undead Juggernaught", his spells might scale with AD, he's not any less of a tank. His spells offer much more zoning potential/utility than sheer damage, except his W. You're not gonna have a great time 1v1ing a juggernaught as Sion.
In juggernaughts I'd classify things like 
, arguably 
is closer to 
kind of champion.
Well at least he's played competitively as a tank.
Done251 votesHis damage is pretty crappy atm, but I wouldn't say his CC is strong/reliable enough to qualify him as a Tank either. His Q needs time to charge and is interrupted by a butterfly's fart, while his R needs to ramp up and is kind of easy to dodge if the target isn't already CCed.
If you needed Vayne/Ezreal locked down, would you pick Sion or Amumu/Sejuani/Alistar/Malphite?
Sasogwa1 votesHis damage is pretty crappy atm, but I wouldn't say his CC is strong/reliable enough to qualify him as a Tank either. His Q needs time to charge and is interrupted by a butterfly's fart, while his R needs to ramp up and is kind of easy to dodge if the target isn't already CCed.
If you needed Vayne/Ezreal locked down, would you pick Sion or Amumu/Sejuani/Alistar/Malphite?
Which is why he's not played a lot atm
Done251 votesSo would you agree that he lacks both the damage to be a Juggernaut like Darius, AND the amount of reliable/powerful CC needed to be a Tank like Amumu?
Sasogwa1 votesSo would you agree that he lacks both the damage to be a Juggernaut like Darius, AND the amount of reliable/powerful CC needed to be a Tank like Amumu?
Yes. We had different arguments but that was around the identity of Sion, I do agree however that Sion needs buffs. On the reactivation of shield mostly imo.
Changing %health of shield to % own health of sion would be rather interesting, as it grants good potential damage on squishy champions.
But overall I just think they need to revert the time nerf for shield reactivation, and buff back 
(which is kinda core on Sion).