I Truly Feel The Pain Of Kalista's Zero Counterplay Passive

commit an hero·Apr 9, 2015·19 votes·3,007 views

I was just in a game as Sion (I know no real gap closers), but my god, Kalista just danced all around me and just laughed then proceeded to do 1/3 of my health with just 20 stacks of Rend and I have 350 armor and around 4,000 HP. I mean why would you even invent a passive like this? There is no counterplay except having someone with either insane mobility cough Riven cough or just flashing on top of her and even that isn't enough. I personally say there be a cooldown between each hop. She shouldn't be able to just bounce all around every AA considering she is an AD and builds AS anyway.

38 Comments

The5lackerApr 9, 201513 votes

The biggest offense about her passive is that it makes her completely immune to conventional slows.

Tie dash distance directly to movement speed. Bam. Problem solved immediately and in its entirety. Yes, she's still hypermobile as shit, but that's not inherently unhealthy, and now she both has reason to build MS and enemies have reason to actually use their slows against her.

KMannnnn1Apr 9, 20154 votes

This is a really good idea and I don't want to take away from it, but I would argue that a free dash every autoattack on an ADC is pretty inherently unhealthy even if the range is variable.

I definitely think would be a step in the right direction, but a champion with her passive is bound to be problematic no matter what.

The5lackerApr 9, 20152 votes

People tend to overreact to dashes, I've noticed. All a dash is is movement. All characters can move. Ergo, so long as a dash doesn't vastly outstrip other forms of movement, I wouldn't consider it unhealthy.

The big problem right now is that Kalista's dashes do vastly outstrip normal movement in a number of completely ridiculous ways. She's immune to most conventional slows, she can dash over walls, and with a high enough AS she can reach truly ridiculous speeds. These are all problems, but they're problems I think can be fairly readily solved with some creative algorithms and common sense (For example, we removed Vayne's ability to dash through walls for a very obvious reason. That reason hasn't changed.)

Aside from that, all she needs is some adjusted scaling on her E to keep it from being a completely stupid nuke/objective control tool, and I think she'll be okay. Well, that at they need to make the Black Spear an "Opt into" ability as opposed to a "Hope the game lets you opt out of it OH WAIT OF COURSE NOT."

AriafluxApr 9, 20158 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/XdEfV8w1-kalistas-dash-speed-is-affected-by-slows

Yet everyone is still saying that her passive isn't affected by slows...

The5lackerApr 9, 20151 votes

You'll have to pardon me if I don't believe the person who didn't designer. Meddler hasn't impressed me as someone who really knows what he's talking about. He might think Kalista's dash is slowed by slows, but it clearly isn't in such a way as to actually change her mobility in any meaningful amount. I've played against enough Kalistas to know that all of the handy dandy slows in the game don't do anything to cripple her hopping. If you can hit her with them in the first place.

Old Man TeetoApr 9, 20157 votes

It's why teams started playing things like Support Nautilus, Annie, why Vi jungle is still popular.

Point Click CC is necessary to deal with the stupidity of half the champions mobility in the game.

IcyPepperApr 9, 20154 votes

People used to complain about it... but now...

Point and click aren't the spells we want, but the spells we need.

Taric Nautilus Annie are the true heroes.

LevyathynApr 9, 20152 votes

Malzahar Leona Pantheon Ryze

I cri evrytiem Kalista

FeathermaneApr 9, 20154 votes

Kalista is more or less perfectly in line with other ad carries. And scenarios where pursuing a champion is not optimal gameplay are common in League Azir Cassiopeia Ezreal Karthus Leblanc Lulu Nidalee RekSai Singed Teemo . Just because you see a Kalista on your screen, that's not an invitation to get an easy kill. You have to estimate if you have the resources to lock her down and withdraw if you don't. She's not as good at chasing as she is at running.

Ulquiorra995Apr 9, 20154 votes

While Kalista might be a bit off.. She kinda pays for it with lower damage - mind you, you stated this directly: 1/3 of your health with "just" 20 stacks of Rend? Considering 2.0 AS, it takes 10 seconds. If it was Vayne or Lucian you'd be dead before that.

I must inquire why did you let her dance around you for 10+ seconds? Calling "no counter play" in this situation is somewhat ridiculous. Considering she has no CC it is plenty of time to escape or call for help.

And for God's sake, stop saying her passive isn't affected by slows. it is, just in a different way. She won't dash shorter distance, but her dash will be slower to complete.

JugglaJApr 9, 20151 votes

HAH league team mates coming to help when your getting chased even when you spam pings until you can't anymore, that's hilarious. Seriously though, the only way I can ever get help like that is if I'm playing with friends and we are all on skype chat

SirsirApr 9, 20154 votes

The funny thing it that passive is exactly what someone came up with when they were making fun of riots mobility creep...

'I know, next riot will come up with a champ that dashes every autoattack!'

Think before you hit 'post' people...

KMannnnn1Apr 9, 20152 votes

IMO the most OP part of Kalista's kit is Rend. Essentially infinitely stacking damage with both a mana and cooldown refreshing effect that can be applied to multiple targets at once. Literally the only downside to her kit is that she's basicallly the most mechanically demanding ADC in the game.

The Yetii RiderApr 9, 20155 votes

The mechanical challenges of right clicking and moving your mouse at the same time...glad I don't play ADC

KMannnnn1Apr 9, 20151 votes

Not saying she's challenging, just the most demanding among her role. I agree that her passive is really OP right now.

Kariu RenaApr 9, 20152 votes

-sion -complain

choose one

Seraphic HereticApr 9, 20152 votes

Where Kalista is strong in kiting champions with no gap closer or burst dmg. I'd like to point out that after flash had been blown Kalista gets absolutely shafted by pretty much every assasin or bursty character. And she's not even very strong 1v1 vs most ADCs and loses pretty much every deal unless she had her support waiting in a brush to ult or is just insanely fed. Even vs Sion if she get's caught up in his cc he can easily get her killed rather quickly in fights. You just need to realize that a typical tank Sion build has trouble dealing enough damage to an ADC to be threatening especially if you don't land your ultimate.

Angry MonsterApr 9, 20152 votes

The real question is why would you even try to get near her?

CrettApr 9, 20151 votes

I understand your pain wholly. I was Sion, Kalista hopped right past me and started 1v1ing my tower with no minions. I couldn't stop her cuz she was too fast, and she had like 10% hp left after killing the tower. She then kited me so hard I had to ult to run away

SalidfingersApr 9, 20151 votes

Last game i played against kalista i had to go ADC.

Sivir destroys her in team fights. Just hit (R) profit

She was fed too, but i destroyed her in lane.

Edit: This is about your elo to. silver 1 to be exact.

qetzelApr 9, 20151 votes

Wow. You survevied for over 10 seconds in a 1v1 against an ADC. Didn't she have a LW or BotRK?

On a serious note, was that in a teamfight or 1v1? If it was 1v1, you would have lost to almost every adc in less time. If that was a teamfight, you did your job. Kalista did nothing but attack you for ~10 seconds. As the tank, your job is to distract the adc and disrupt the enemy team. Another question. If that was a teamfight, were you aiming your skillshots at Kalista?

NarasimhaApr 9, 20151 votes

What do you mean JUST 20 stacks of Rend? That takes a while to add up. How long were you chasing her? After a certain point, you should have just disengaged and moved on.

Also, with 350 armor, I'm guessing you had both Thornmail and Randuin's, in which case, she was probably killing herself more than you.

BluePolarizerApr 9, 20151 votes

probably not since most Kalistas overload on lifesteal with both BT and BoRK.

NarasimhaApr 9, 20151 votes

In that case, she's just not hitting for very much then. I'm assuming her build would be something like Berserker's, BT, BotRK, Hurricane, LW, and GA. Good sustain and kiting, but without crits, she's not really the biggest threat around.

BluePolarizerApr 9, 20151 votes

the LCS cookie cutter Kalista build is exactly that, with Merc Scimitar being used in place of GA sometimes. Even without crits she hits for surprisingly much considering her rend is the equivalent of a 30% AD steroid on-hit.

warpenguin555Apr 9, 20151 votes

Why would you feel the pain? you didnt get carpel tunnel like she did.

TrylobyteApr 9, 20151 votes

Kalista is by no means the unstoppable engine of infinimurder people seem to think she is. Look at the pro levels where people barely even play her because she's easily countered by point-click CC like Nautilus, Vi, or Annie, or by supertanks that just zone her out of the teamfight by being scary, like Sejuani. Sure she can kite you forever, but if she has to kite you away from her team then you can sit back and smile as the rest of her team, deprived of their main DPS, dies in a hail of damage. It's very much the Shyvana school of tanking - Simply chase them away while soaking their damage and let your team clean up the less-mobile people left behind. If she stays and tries to fight, someone's going to jump on her and delete her, or she's just going to have to get way too close to that Shyvana/Sejuani/Sion and wind up getting bitchslapped.

junglerboy16Apr 9, 20151 votes

That is when you're team simply walks away from her, and she realizes that she has to run after you, and is suddenly immobile as heck.

Don't chase kalista. Don't chase Singed. Don't follow Bard.

You should just kill her whole team and then push a tower. If you aren't chasing her, she can't kite away from you, and if she can't kite away from you, the rest of you team can circle around and cut off her escapes entirely.

Drunk RummateApr 9, 20151 votes

She seems pretty manageable to me, picking sion into kalista is pretty much counterpicking yourself out though.

Try annie/maokai/malphite/orianna/irelia if you're having a lot of trouble with kalista as a solo laner.

Chaotic ReksApr 9, 20151 votes

item 3075 + item 3165 watch her QQ

BluePolarizerApr 9, 20151 votes

Did you know that Kalista can kite Riven too with enough AS and fast enough clicking?

Yep, Riven's dashes is actually the equivalent of merely 450 MS.

I believe the only melee champs that Kalista can't kite are Master Yi with 2.5 AS, level 3 ult and tier 2 boots or an extremely fed Talon or Zed that bursts her.

Starcall CaseyApr 9, 20151 votes

Kalista got ruined with her nerfs. They need to buff it back up again. if you legit fight a kalista that can dance around you as a sion with 350 armour and 4k HP. you are bad. It would take Kalista around 200 auto's to kill you and that would take minutes of attacking.

Saint MillayApr 9, 20151 votes

Rock: Nerf Paper it's OP as hell. Scissors is balanced though.

Just because someone counters you doesn't mean they are broken. Sion counters a lot of people too. It doesn't mean he's broken either.

Malix FarwinApr 9, 20151 votes

part of me wants to like this post because kalista passive is kinda BS but then part of mean doesn't because i think Sion is pretty BS as well.

CastanedaApr 9, 20151 votes

Damn, this is something new, i never heared anyhting like this, certain champions counter certain champions in this game? When did this happen?

Or do you think that Sion should be able to roflstomp every adc and take irrelevant damage?

ConturbatioApr 9, 20151 votes

Lol, you say Riven has insane mobility? I've played Riven a lot of times in the past, and I tell you, I had to burn my flash for a 20% chance of killing kalista, there is no way to get her with your QQQ + E unless she doesn't have boots.

BârdApr 10, 20151 votes

Nautilus ult Annie passive/Q Taric E Warwick Malzahar Urgot ults Point and click cc is foolproof for killing her Lots of people can out dps her She is very weak without her support nearby