Would this be considered a toxic passive?

darkdill·Sep 24, 2015·2 votes·652 views

In trying to make a new juggernaut Champion, I've gotten some criticisms on the passive I've chosen.

Dark Resolve Gain 0.2/0.3/0.4 bonus armor and magic resistance for every 1% of your missing health. (improves at levels 7 and 13 respectively) Maximum bonuses: 20/30/40 AR/MR.

This seems a lot like Poppy's passive, but it's considerably less broken since it can be beaten by ArPen/MPen, and doesn't cut heavy burst attacks in half.

Is this balanceable, or is the very idea of getting more resists for being low on health a toxic mechanic?

27 Comments

Stiv1234Sep 24, 20152 votes

The most toxic passive is Twitch's, obviously.

http://i.imgur.com/0PfMfYb.gif

For serious, that smells like Huskar, and that is never a good thing.

IcyPepperSep 24, 20151 votes

Teemo "Heard you were talking shit, mouse."

darkdillSep 24, 20151 votes

Well, this one doesn't also give bonus AS. Olaf's already got that covered.

JefftiffySep 24, 20151 votes

It is for the same reason as Poppy's but at least it isn't a flat reduction so I mean it's toxic but not as much as Poppy's. I would say its much healthier and be based on already existing armor and MR but be a relatively lowish value (like 20-30 max)

darkdillSep 24, 20151 votes

It'd need to be higher than that because it'd max out when you're nearly dead, a range at which you could easily be executed. I was thinking max. 20/30/40, improving at levels 7 and 13 respectively.

Also, this might sound dumb, but what exactly would make such a passive toxic? Poppy's version is toxic because it means you simply can't use burst against her. This one isn't NEARLY as potent.

JefftiffySep 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

It'd need to be higher than that because it'd max out when you're nearly dead, a range at which you could easily be executed. I was thinking max. 20/30/40, improving at levels 7 and 13 respectively.

Also, this might sound dumb, but what exactly would make such a passive toxic? Poppy's version is toxic because it means you simply can't use burst against her. This one isn't NEARLY as potent.

Think about it this way you put a bunch of damage into someone and Cait goes to ult which would kill most champs with the same amount of items built and doesn't get the kill because a champ can negate most of her damage before she can even think about penetration.

darkdillSep 24, 20151 votes

In mid-game, sure, that'd be problematic. But once that Caitlyn gets a LW, it's not a problem at all. Besides, with this Champion being a juggernaut, I don't think Caitlyn would want to target it with her ult that often.

As for this Champion having higher resists than others, you could say the same thing about Garen or Wukong; they get bonus resistances. In Garen's case it's a permanent passive bonus, while in Wukong's it's based on how many enemy Champions are near him.

But I see your point on it being hard to secure a kill on this target. I guess I might need to come up with something else, but I'm hoping to get Meddler or RiotScruffy or someone like that to give some input.

WaruMonzaeSep 24, 20151 votes

Depend on how much it increases by i dont see it being that toxic, as it would require them to be very low to take into effect and by that point they could easily be finished off.

darkdillSep 24, 20151 votes

I'm thinking 20/30/40 max bonus AR/MR (improves at levels 7 and 13 respectively). You'd get this max bonus when you're below, say, 20% of your maximum health (or even lower if needed).

WaruMonzaeSep 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I'm thinking 20/30/40 max bonus AR/MR (improves at levels 7 and 13 respectively).

Yeah then honestly i dont see it as broken. It sort of works like wukong where he gets resists based on nearby champions. except you wouldnt get these resists untill near death. While it is a lot stronger than Wu's Wu gets his resist no matter his HP.

MathbalnaseSep 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Depend on how much it increases by

'OP' is not the same thing as 'toxic'.

Ra1dSep 24, 20151 votes

I dont see how thats even toxic. Look at volibears passive. When he gets below a certain percentage he heals a good amount of his health back.

The Sword SaintSep 24, 20151 votes

Except volis passive has a cooldown similar in duration to a full on revive passive. Op's passive would have a similar effect (resists instead of hp) but even better because you can't ignite someone and cut their resists down. So op's idea is basically the equivalent of a voli passive that has no cooldown and is even better than volis.

darkdillSep 24, 20151 votes

That's debatable, actually. You can't Ignite this passive (in terms of the GW effect), but you can pierce it with a item 3035 or item 3135 .

The Sword SaintSep 24, 20151 votes

Those items are generally second big purchases at the earliest which means mid game - you can ignite voli from level one.

darkdillSep 24, 20151 votes

And early game, this passive would give at most 20 AR/MR, which isn't a lot. Compare that with Shyvana, who innately gets those bonuses with no requirement.

The Sword SaintSep 24, 20151 votes

Your early game passive is 20 resists? Shyvana's resists start at 5 and scale to 20 at max, doubled during her ultimate sure, but your passive is 4x as strong at the beginning and I assume by the way you phrased that that it gets stronger.

darkdillSep 24, 20152 votes

20 resist when you're around 1 hp. CONTEXT!

At full health, you get no bonus.

HentRexSep 24, 20151 votes

May be a bit over powered, no more so than Urgot's. Could just leave it at .2 at all ranks of the game. Or have it scale from lower. .15/.2/.25. Would like to see the rest of the champ for the "CONTEXT" ;) though.

darkdillSep 24, 20151 votes

Here's a link: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/RvxOUUAd-certainlyt-can-i-get-your-opinion-to-help-me-design-a-new-juggernaut

The concept isn't fully together yet, as I'm still getting feedback on the kit, but hopefully this will give you the context you need.

To summarize, the Champion is a melee juggernaut whose ultimate grants a lot of power, but drains health every second (with a steadily increasing upkeep cost).

MathbalnaseSep 24, 20151 votes

Ignite deals true damage. True damage ignores resists. This passive grants resists. Ignite bypasses this passive.

Ignite would be of significant help for an attacker who lacks penetration in finishing off an opponent with this passive.

You can 'ignite this passive'.

darkdillSep 24, 20151 votes

Yeah, though they were referring to "Ignite this passive" in terms of the Grievous Wounds effect vs Volibear.

MathbalnaseSep 24, 20151 votes

Sure, but Ignite does more than just apply GW. And that 'more' is particularly useful against this passive.

darkdillSep 24, 20151 votes

Fair enough.

IcyPepperSep 24, 20151 votes

Are you saying Volibear's passive is toxic, or are you using Volibear as an example of a similar passive that isn't toxic?