Meanwhile, after Riot completely gutted Sona and carefully trimmed Leona, if you filter for Diamond play on Lolalytics...
...Janna has once again started to bubble to 53% win rate.
Seeing how Sona got blown into a crater at a 52% win rate, I can expect this to NOT happen to Janna now, or nearly anyone else. Because fuck me.
dunder kill27 votes"Tank supports are running bot lane"
Who said that? I hate these posts that start with quotes because they never actually quote anyone and instead try to make it sound like it's the general consensus that people think like this. Support meta is so much better now. You actually have options besides whoever is the best at spamming Ardent on their team. Ten times better than just a few months ago.
Penns9 votesChamps like Alistar, Leona, Shen, Blitz,... are running bot tho because of Aftershock. But the difference is that Janna has disengage to beat those champs while Sona is supposed to lose to them.
chipndip116 votesChamps like Alistar, Leona, Shen, Blitz,... are running bot tho because of Aftershock. But the difference is that Janna has disengage to beat those champs while Sona is supposed to lose to them.
Sona now loses to nearly anyone, though, since the nerfs were extremely overdone.
Lauchmelder7 votesSona can stay there until her rework. She needs one ASAP.
I'm fine if she's an aura support, take away her ridiculous Passive Q AA damage. She shouldn't be the one taking 50% off a carry if she builds a chunk of AP. Sona support should enable her carries, not herself.
Slythrin Umbreon3 votesGet to the back of the line. https://www.lawlogix.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Longline.jpg
PB4UAME2 votesSona should enable her entire fucking team or did you forget what the purpose of a motherfucking aura is? Let alone an auramancer with 3 auras and an AoE hard CC ult. smh
FFS this toxic mentality that supports = adc bitch/item needs to fucking die already.
Lauchmelder1 votesThis toxic mentality of thinking carries = ADC isn't any better.
Read -> Think -> Answer
The only goddamn problem with Sona is her having too much damage if she decides to get some AP. Her Q doesn't fit into her kit, simple as that.
chipndip15 votesWho said that?
A lot of people if you don't live under a rock. The general consensus is that tanky supports with hard engage, like Leona, are the meta. Now, this isn't true, and this is me saying that this isn't true. Janna, Taric, Nami, and Lulu are all strong picks on top of Leona, Blitz, and Alistar.
LordGeovanni2 votesYou can put it on Being tanky when Tank champions Without CC are viable. No tanky champions without cc they die fast just like tanks with cc just that champions with cc can disrupt damage and this is why they live longer. not because tanks are good but because damage is so good anyone who cc's longer to disrupt that fraction of damage they disrupted 1.5k damage per second.
D357R0Y3R19 votesJanna is the ultimare counter to Alistar and Leona
nerfing her for doing her job would be way more non sense than gutting Sona because of aery and klepto
Also tank supports are not running anything Thresh has 49% win rate, when he was broken he had 52% win rate Leona is an issue on her own
In the non-tank department in addition to janna we have: Nami with 52% win rate Lulu with 51% win rate and 53% win rate in diamond
the real broken support is 
with 54% win rate
meowwow73 votesthat's why i stopped playing taric they would surrender before i can do a team fight with me popping a 
into his ult
Durzaka1 votesMeanwhile, tank supports have 4 champions with 67% combined pick rate.
Also, Thresh doesnt have 49% win rate, he has 51% win rate in plat+, and leona Blitz and Alistar all have 53% win rate in plat+
D357R0Y3R1 votesMeanwhile, tank supports have 4 champions with 67% combined pick rate.
Also, Thresh doesnt have 49% win rate, he has 51% win rate in plat+,
https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/thresh/platinum
and leona Blitz and Alistar all have 53% win rate in plat+
https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/blitzcrank/platinum https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/leona/platinum
Durzaka1 voteshttp://www.op.gg/champion/alistar/statistics/support http://www.op.gg/champion/leona/statistics/support
OP.gg is far more reliable than leagueofgraphs. Leagueofgraphs is garbage.
D357R0Y3R1 votesno it isn't
OP.gg only takes in account korea Leagueofgraph takes all the regions in the world which is more reliable because riot takes in account every single region not only korea
RedCyclone12 votesRiot just being biased as fuck
Their response to Ezreal, MF, Leona, ect being broken from the new runes was to be careful with the champions balance and proceeded to love tap them over time But with Sona we get rapid hard nerfs not giving a fuck about the consequences of making her earlygame utterly powerless, not a single reply from a Rioter on this champion that they have pushed the hardest nerfs onto, meanwhile we get called "whiney salty Sona mains who play a braindead champion" because somehow without them explaining anything other then her being easy they think that the nerfs were justified
The steam life4 votesShe had the 3rd highset winrate for months with no nerfs then when she finally gets hard nerfed its being biased and everyones acting as if she was good for only preaseason. Im not saying the second sona nerf was justified but sona has been broken for at least 3 months longer than anyone you mentioned and they didnt do anything. So its not like it was a wow these champs all became broken at the same time but sona was nerfed it was a sona has been broken for a while and shes finally been nerfed, albeit a bit too much.
RedCyclone3 votesHonestly I am surprised they didn't nerf her during the Ardent meta because yes, she had a 54% for like all of it
You pretend as if her previous performance has anything to do with her preseason performance, there is no balance tax as if a champion is overpowered for a time they should be overnerfed and kept there a while There is clear bias in the care and attention they are applying to other outliers this preseason, Sona has taken 4 hits in multiple spots (Base stats, W, Q, mana, runes) and it was pretty obvious that jumping the gun and applying this many hard hitting nerfs was going to break the champion
Also you imply that we want all her nerfs taken away, nope, Sona was busted at the start of preseason and all she really needs to be in a good spot again is a revert on the insane mana costs
The steam life1 votesI dont think that she should be overnerfed because of her time spent at the top of the wr charts. What im saying is that its total bs that riot is being biased against this champ when clearly they had no problem letting her be strong for multiple months. People are saying things like oh why they nerfing these other champs so slowly when sona is getting butchered but riot took way longer to nerf sona than the other outliers so thats all im saying
Miku Hime sama2 votesHonestly I am surprised they didn't nerf her during the Ardent meta because yes, she had a 54% for like all of it
...and she was non-existent in professonal play. Sona wasn't good with Ardent Censer, she was "good" in yolo queue, for the simple fact boosted yolo-queuers don't understand how to right-click on her. No different than before or after Ardent meta.
They don't understand she gets 2-shot by most characters at level 1 and 1-shot by nearly everybody later on. They stand still and let her repeatedly walk into 550 range until they start to get low 5 Staccatos later.
Petri Fidlfynger2 votesHonestly I am surprised they didn't nerf her during the Ardent meta because yes, she had a 54% for like all of it
You pretend as if her previous performance has anything to do with her preseason performance, there is no balance tax as if a champion is overpowered for a time they should be overnerfed and kept there a while There is clear bias in the care and attention they are applying to other outliers this preseason, Sona has taken 4 hits in multiple spots (Base stats, W, Q, mana, runes) and it was pretty obvious that jumping the gun and applying this many hard hitting nerfs was going to break the champion
Also you imply that we want all her nerfs taken away, nope, Sona was busted at the start of preseason and all she really needs to be in a good spot again is a revert on the insane mana costs
Ardent rework was an utter mess.
PhearBunny11 votesTanks aren't even running bot lane. Tanks and Enchanters are both pretty equal, which is how it should be.
Keep mages the fck out of that lane. They don't belong there.
NekoniClaws10 votesPeople think Janna is a no-brain champ- "shield and peel"
Janna's real strength is her interrupts. Interrupts scale in effectiveness with the skill of their user.
She should, realistically, always be a little strong in Diamond+.
Fargo795 votessorry someone is mad cause Sona was nerfed when the Peel Queen Janna wasnt?? PLS.. Sona is the most BS support for early game poke there is.. she cant miss her q pokes cause the range is massive..
Thefrostyviking3 votesSona's Q damage was never anything big though, it was always stacking her passive up to the 3 then Q-AA that did damage.
And her AA range is a lot shorter than Q range, so if she actually wanted to do any damage that won't get healed in the time it takes to do 3 autos with a doran´s blade then she has to auto attack as well.
Granted, she was OP for a time, and still strong post nerfs.
But the last round of nerfs were way too much, now she runs outa mana trying to do her basic harass combo and passive+Q+AA doesn't do any damage either ontop of that.
Basically has no presence in lane or midgame, and lategame won't happen because enemy will have a guaranteed crushed lane off her.
There is nerfing and then there is gutting, what happened to Sona was the second.
No one wants to see champs gutted, nerfs are fine but gutting a popular champ and just making them straight nonviable is just a poor way to work if you want to keep your fans happy x)
A1laku1 votesGet the mana flow band or what it's called + biscuits, that's plenty of mana for the early until you get Redemption for it's mana regen.
Thefrostyviking2 votesSo you´ll basically play a inferior version of soraka but you get a stun instead of a silence and possible root?.....No global heal either.
I dunno, does not feel so worth it x)
Both would be super passive and soraka has a better lategame as a healer.
A1laku1 votesWith the new item CDR stat even off supports can do decently and you worry about Sona? Lel, whatever's floating your boat dude. And Sona isn't all about healing also, why do you leave out the dmg, the MS aura and her passive? Even with full support items she builds Athene's and has plenty AP for a support from all that mana regen.
Thefrostyviking1 votesHavent checked the changes intended for support, but when i wrote that comment 16 days ago the truth was that Sona had been overnerfed and went from like 52% winrate to 46% or close.
They basically halved her Q base damage, in exchange for a slightly better scaling that will compensate if she goes a full AP build.
Now Q is so weak that Sona basically lost most of her lane pressure, she has neither healing, nor damage nor any important utility as her E is too weak early as well.
Sona in lane basically gets run over by anything and anyone else.
It's basically a nerf on the level of the cait nerf which basically had to be halfway reverted because it hurt too much.
Then Riot gave cait some kind of scaling meant to be good post like level 10 or even later and called it a job well done x)
But Sona hasn't gotten anything, not even a half baked revert/change like the one cait got despite a equal or worse loss in winrate and playrate.
Miku Hime sama2 votesshe cant miss her q pokes cause the range is massive..
She CAN miss her Q tho, because it can misfire if the enemy is out of range. Which btw, it only has a max range of 700 and only prioritizes champions over minions if they're within a range of 600. Not to mention 40 damage is literally negligible.
Meanwhile, we're blatantly ignoring the fact that single-target spells truly CAN'T miss. Such as: Nami, Janna, Lulu, Annie, Malzahar, Brand. All of whom out-range Sona, despite out-damaging Sona & also despite all, but 1 of them having pre-6 hard CC. Sorry, not sorry, but Sona has the worst-in-class damage, spell range, damage mitigation & CC.
SwiftKitten883 votesif you filter for Diamond play on Lolalytics...
... you can filter data to say anything you want... there is a enitre book on this.. its called "how to lie with statistics" you got to look at the whole picture..
this is why i feel that anyone who tries to use data from OP.gg and which ONLY uses Korean play + only data who all play on 8 ms ping, while being genetically gifted at video games. and they try to use that as an accurate representation of the state of the game frankly deserves to be laughed at.. and that's the nicest way i can put it...
im not saying your post is wrong.. i didnt even look at it... im am just saying filtering the data too look at once specific thing is normally a bad sign
chipndip14 votesif you filter for Diamond play on Lolalytics...
... you can filter data to say anything you want... there is a enitre book on this.. its called "how to lie with statistics" you got to look at the whole picture..
this is why i feel that anyone who tries to use data from OP.gg and which ONLY uses Korean play + only data who all play on 8 ms ping, while being genetically gifted at video games. and they try to use that as an accurate representation of the state of the game frankly deserves to be laughed at.. and that's the nicest way i can put it...
im not saying your post is wrong.. i didnt even look at it... im am just saying filtering the data too look at once specific thing is normally a bad sign
Yes, you can filter statistics based on criteria.
Yes, you can choose to lie with statistics if you desire.
No, you're not some genius if you decide we should live life on gut feelings instead of some semblance of data and research.
And since you didn't read the thread, kindly refrain from posting here.
SwiftKitten882 votesYes, you can filter statistics based on criteria.
Yes, you can choose to lie with statistics if you desire.
No, you're not some genius if you decide we should live life on gut feelings instead of some semblance of data and research.
And since you didn't read the thread, kindly refrain from posting here.
i read the thread i just didnt look at the data...
now i have looked at the data ... and from what i can see.. i find her winrate falls within an " mildly acceptable" range
win winrate as support ranged form 47% to a high 49% i dont think a small buff would out of the question, but you say "completely gutted".
u dont know what i MEANS to be "completely gutted"
try having a 38% winrate for THREE MONTHS then for the NEXT three months be under 42% then talk to me about being "gutted".
sure she isnt 52-55% anymore, and yeah, thats a pretty big change.. and it is an almost 5% loss in winrate, and that is a LOT, but she still ENDS with a 47-49% and that still perfectly viable in every sense, even if it does need a buff was sona overnerfed... i would say yes she was, certainly.. but using the term "gutted" is wrong
and yes after looking at the data i would prob buff her winrate 1-2 percent
thats being said... there are plenty of other champs who needs winrate buffs or nerfs of more than 5%.
my own main could use a buff of 2-3% and is currently in a worse spot than sona... so yeah i know whats its like... but saying you champ is "gutted" when talking to a 
main who had to suffer though the last year of hell i had to... your not going to get much sympathy from me when complaining about a 47-49% win rate...
exactly 1 year ago that 47-49% winrate would have been a minimum of 9% higher than my win rate......
chipndip12 votesi read the thread i just didnt look at the data...
now i have looked at the data ... and from what i can see.. i find her winrate falls within an " mildly acceptable" range
win winrate as support ranged form 47% to a high 49% i dont think a small buff would out of the question, but you say "completely gutted".
u dont know what i MEANS to be "completely gutted"
try having a 38% winrate for THREE MONTHS then for the NEXT three months be under 42% then talk to me about being "gutted".
sure she isnt 52-55% anymore, and yeah, thats a pretty big change.. and it is an almost 5% loss in winrate, and that is a LOT, but she still ENDS with a 47-49% and that still perfectly viable in every sense, even if it does need a buff was sona overnerfed... i would say yes she was, certainly.. but using the term "gutted" is wrong
and yes after looking at the data i would prob buff her winrate 1-2 percent
thats being said... there are plenty of other champs who needs winrate buffs or nerfs of more than 5%.
my own main could use a buff of 2-3% and is currently in a worse spot than sona... so yeah i know whats its like... but saying you champ is "gutted" when talking to a
exactly 1 year ago that 47-49% winrate would have been a minimum of 9% higher than my win rate......
Just because Nidalee's worse off doesn't mean it justifies dumpstering someone else. Nidalee's kit is hard to balance because whenever her solo queue power isn't in the dirt, she's fucking bonkers in solo queue and pro play. I've made many threads about needing fundamental changes for my own champion. I doubt you have the same mentality of being able to change or let go of features in your own champ to bring Nidalee to a better place, balance-wise.
Ayzev1 votesFiltering data isn't a bad thing by default. In this case, filtering out lower elos gives a more accurate representation of the champion's power because there people actually know what to do as and what to do against a champion. If you look at, for example, Yi, you'll notice that he's significantly stronger in low elo because people don't keep their CC for him and blow it on someone else instead, or they don't even pick anything with CC against him, so he ends up being a lot stronger there than in the higher elo where people do actually plan ahead.
Thilmer2 votesI'm super tired of Sona getting nerfs when Janna is more popular and has a higher winrate. Is getting ridiculous because it has been like this for several seasons.
Azadethe2 votesPersonally, my hottest support is Zyra. And I play all the others too. Leona can be strong, but Zyra trumps her in every way, and can also counter any of the others. And no. She's not a tank. She eats tanks.
P.S. Janna will always have a + 50% or greater rate of wins, unless you rework her and take away her move speed entirely. News Flash; She's the hardest to kill champ, even when played poorly. When a champ averages tiny deaths, she will always have good rations of Win/Loss, because she on average is creating a loss of gold income for the opposing team just by staying alive. It's not that she's broken. She just lends to less snowballs.
Succubús GF2 votesShe isn't even top 3-tier. She just has always been generally good. Also can we talk about why this is? In a meta of full burst, a support who EXCELS at nullifying burst and disengaging is popular I WONDER WHY
chipndip12 votes[{quoted}](name=His Kïtten,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7L183Zkp,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2017-12-26T00:52:01.282+0000)
She isn't even top 3-tier. She just has always been generally good. Also can we talk about why this is? In a meta of full burst, a support who EXCELS at nullifying burst and disengaging is popular I WONDER WHY
I'm not even saying she's op. I'm just making another point by using her.
She has the highest win rate in the support role on Lolalytics. How is she not top 3?
We make an excuse every time Janna's strong. Honestly, enough with it.
Professor Ward1 votesjanna is the go to counter to leona right now if you want to play mage.
Her playrate is going up, so as will her winrate.
chipndip12 votes[{quoted}](name=Professor Ward,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7L183Zkp,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-12-25T17:10:05.890+0000)
janna is the go to counter to leona right now if you want to play mage.
Her playrate is going up, so as will her winrate.
She actually goes even against Leona. It's a skill match-up.
If Leona goes in wrong, Janna can peel her off. If Janna messes up, Leona has 2 solid engage options, so she can just reengage.
D357R0Y3R1 votes[deleted]
chipndip13 votesJanna cannot mess up she literally just has to shield her adc, slow leona, and if leona uses E she has both her Q and R to stop her
the only way leona wins is by hitting Janna with her ult alone which is almost impossible because of janna passiva and W passive
If Janna ults before Leona ults, Leona can ult Janna and Janna can be burst down.
If Leona lands her E onto Janna after Janna ults, she can be burst down.
Basically, depending on how things are done, Janna is susceptible to giving the enemy gold, or Leona doesn't realize this and she never gets that gold.
Like, the match up on Lolalytics is LITERALLY 50% when filtered for Diamond. It's a skill match up whether you like it or not.
ªTeemo1 votes[{quoted}](name=Professor Ward,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7L183Zkp,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-12-25T17:10:05.890+0000)
janna is the go to counter to leona right now if you want to play mage.
Her playrate is going up, so as will her winrate.
Go to counter to anything, there's nothing that can touch janna or her adc
inplane1 votesGo to counter to anything, there's nothing that can touch janna or her adc
A good 
+ 
combo can take care of 
IF they target her first and CC her to death. Otherwise, she's getting away with her R Q combo.
ªTeemo1 votesA good
And she stands behind minions and you don't get to grab her ever
Poske1 votes[{quoted}](name=Professor Ward,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7L183Zkp,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-12-25T17:10:05.890+0000)
janna is the go to counter to leona right now if you want to play mage.
Her playrate is going up, so as will her winrate.
Janna is go to counter to league of legends
FakeGravity1 votesjanna will always be strong when engage be strong, her reactive nature is perfect when the enemy have things like leona and thresh and blitzcrank, i think the issue is the lack of mr, it let supports that before rely on high base damage do even more damage, this makes tanks be a correct answer i guess?
