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I went against Lucian top

Ben SwoIo··50 votes·18,443 views

It was complete BULL SHIT. Maybe I played it wrong, maybe I just had the wrong champ. I picked first and went J4 so the pick order was in his favor.

Anyway, I felt completely useless. He immediately froze the lane and harassed me any time I went to farm. If I burned Q to farm, it left me with no escape. He then proceeded to do the bull shit Lucian dash double AA star double AA one more AA (whatever the bull shit como is) to chunk me about 3/4 hp. If i tried to harass him, he just dashed away or to some awkward angle where I couldn't get my combo off. All he did was perma shove. If I ult, he just dashes out and kites (TOO MANY CHAMPS ARE ABLE TO ESCAPE J4'S ULT). I died a few times sitting at my own tower. I only received one gank, but fuck that I shouldn't have to plan my lane around receiving ganks.

What did I fuck up? How can I punish this stupid ass champ in the top lane? He felt more bull shit than Vayne or Yasuo top tbh. I honestly feel like this ridiculous champ needs to have some damage taken away, but I need to figure out how to deal with him if he's gonna be going into other lanes besides bot.

130 Comments

heroikc44 votes

Yeah, most marksman tops are like that.

Ben SwoIo19 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, most marksman tops are like that.

There's gotta be a counter to it. I hate cheesy shit like that.

Lord Malpercio7 votes

There is. Let them push up, call for a gank. Once you get a level/gold advantage, they explode. Most of them don't have good escapes (even Lucian's dash is p. short.)

One Quacky Boi1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Malpercio,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7KhkiF8d,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-06T05:42:45.605+0000)

There is. Let them push up, call for a gank. Once you get a level/gold advantage, they explode. Most of them don't have good escapes (even Lucian's dash is p. short.)

As someone who has mained Vayne top before, I can confirm that this is exactly the way to go.

kingDeDeDarius4 votes

Yikes that is so cancerr. Vayne top is disgusting :(

LatetotheRace20 votes

Requiring ganks is such a bullshit level counterplay. Leaves me with little to no actual agency on the matter.

Velzard of Koz6 votes

Not to mentoin the OP said Lucian was freezing the lane.

Sucction14 votes

Welcome to ADCs. Ever been super fed on Darius and tried to kill an 0/5 Vayne that has two items?

I bet she wins without you even hitting her once.

TyroneWatermelon1 votes

That's darius's only counterplay. range. wonderful champion design.

Muhai1 votes

Riven beats the sh*t out of him if you can play her. In low elo Garen can smash him. Pantheon can Destroy him in lane if done correctly. All of them melee champions.

TyroneWatermelon1 votes

If you can get ahead, yes. if it's even slightly even, he's gonna win. now think about the fact that you don't play in a 1v1 lane for 40 minutes. also pantheon beats everyone and outpokes pokers, that's not fair, another shit tier design like darius.

AlienPrimate4 votes

Ever been a 0/0 tank against a 0/0 Darius? The 0/0 Darius wins by default to the point where you can't win as the tank no matter what. Your team has to win for you by coming top and beating him with a 2 or 3 versus 1. The reason Darius is weak to range and mobility is because he is so frustratingly strong against immobile melees. Remove his strengths against immobile melees (free 50+ AD, massive slow further making his target immobile, unmissable bonus heal/damage on Q, stupid amount of true damage, free armor pen to shred tanks) and then you can talk about maybe giving him something to combat mobility and range.

Seenan4 votes

{quoted}

Ever been a 0/0 tank against a 0/0 Darius? The 0/0 Darius wins by default to the point where you can't win as the tank no matter what. Your team has to win for you by coming top and beating him with a 2 or 3 versus 1. The reason Darius is weak to range and mobility is because he is so frustratingly strong against immobile melees. Remove his strengths against immobile melees (free 50+ AD, massive slow further making his target immobile, unmissable bonus heal/damage on Q, stupid amount of true damage, free armor pen to shred tanks) and then you can talk about maybe giving him something to combat mobility and range.

This isn't about Darius, this is about ADCs being stupid @ top lane.

GayFluffyUnicorn4 votes

Welcome to riot balance. Toplane has been like this for years. Kennen, jayce, rumble destroy the game? Where is the problem? Just call your jungler 4Head.

Dracocrash4 votes

{quoted}

Welcome to riot balance. Toplane has been like this for years. Kennen, jayce, rumble destroy the game? Where is the problem? Just call your jungler 4Head.

since when is rumble a ranged champ lmao

ÔneWindyBoi3 votes

Since he can constantly Q harass your ass through minions and there's nowhere for you to hide, especially if you like being able to buy items

JeaneGreene1 votes

But that is what makes Mordekaiser trash. Because Mordekaiser permashoves the lane, he is super prone to ganks, and as he has no mobility or CC, he just loses.

Schenix2 votes

They are extremely susceptible to ganks and dives more than most other picks. It's practically almost free for a good jungler to make them regret touching a solo lane marksman that isn't Quinn, provided the entire enemy team isn't anal about vision.

Otherwise, you rush Tabi and keep the Dorans Shield, and wait for your own opportunities depending on what champion you play. A melee into Darius feels rather stifled, but there are things to do. It's just more difficult and the responsibility falls on you heavier not to mess that up.

GelsominoKiller2 votes

{quoted}

There's gotta be a counter to it. I hate cheesy shit like that.

Not necessarily. Lucian top/mid usually scales into non-existence, and fucks up the enemy comp. In fact, when Lucian mid was more popular, he had a 45% or something (vs a 52% in bot).

Is Lucian in solo lane a last stage cancer? Yes, for sure. Is he fair, fun or interactive? Absolutely not. Does he pay for it later in the game? Yes.

If the trade-off is enough, that is debatable.

Ralik0982 votes

Marksmen are trash tho, or so the people maining them want you to believe. No idea how Riot still hasn't learned ADC mains are full of shit after 9 seasons.

kingDeDeDarius3 votes

Lol ikr, they're still picked every game, even the supposed trash ones get picked often

Uwhtazn21 votes

Those who play adc top suck just like Huni. Because Huni can't play tanks for his team for jack shit!!!!

Netorare16 votes

Ranged toplaners are an abomination, this is why diversity is bad in some lanes.

Sir Saltarin10 votes

Diversity is bad on all roles:

Viktor tank and Lucian Top ?

Cancer, bring back one to Midlane and the other to Botlane

Karthus and Camille Jungle ?

Cancer, bring back Karthus to Midlane and Camille to Toplane

Sion and Urgot Mid ?

Cancer, bring back both of them Toplane

Cassiopeia and Heimerdinger Bot ?

Cancer, bring them back to Midlane

Fiddlesticks and Brand supp ?

Cancer, bring rework Fiddle and move Brand to Midlane.

Netorare5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7KhkiF8d,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2019-02-06T10:38:16.156+0000)

Diversity is bad on all roles:

Viktor tank and Lucian Top ?

Cancer, bring back one to Midlane and the other to Botlane

Karthus and Camille Jungle ?

Cancer, bring back Karthus to Midlane and Camille to Toplane

Sion and Urgot Mid ?

Cancer, bring back both of them Toplane

Cassiopeia and Heimerdinger Bot ?

Cancer, bring them back to Midlane

Fiddlesticks and Brand supp ?

Cancer, bring rework Fiddle and move Brand to Midlane.

But karthus is supposed to be a jungler doe.

Sir Saltarin4 votes

Nah, he was supposed to be a Midlaner and he was played there for years and years.

Sucction10 votes

In the original champion spotlight, which still has his current kit exactly intact, Phreak specifically says "Mid laner...and jungler"

crispy661 votes

{quoted}

Ranged toplaners are an abomination, this is why diversity is bad in some lanes.

Diversity is bad in every aspect of life

Thefrostyviking11 votes

Lucian early is oppressive indeed, you have do everything you can to avoid a freeze and just make it to 6 without dying, marksmen are the ones who scale the least with level and the most with gold so he wont have any huge powerspikes even if he gets ahead in farm.

Try instead or get waves closer to your tower and call for ganks, your long range engage is sufficient for him to burn his dash which would force him to flash to escape the jungler, 2 rounds of that in a short time and he dies and will keep dying for the next few minutes.

Then you will be so ahead that you can just E-Q-R-AA-tiamant? onto him and detonate him instantly no matter what he does.

GripaAviara8 votes

The problem with ADC top is that they are OP ... unless jungle ganks. That's why don't usually see pro doing this. But in soloq... junglers can't prioritise an ADC top lane.

Just a few games earlier, had a Xayah top. The jungler (Zac) never ganked, despite the easy lane to gank. Instead he ganked mid yasuo, without any success ...

Sucction7 votes

Every marksman top is like this, if you notice.

With most lanes, say something like Pantheon into Jax.

Pantheon wins early, Jax outscales and wins later.

With for example, Vayne into Garen, it's very different.

Vayne wins early, Vayne outscales and wins even harder later. The one and only counter is jungle ganks. You generally have more AoE playing a traditional top laner, as most ADCs lack good waveclear. You have to use this to freeze the lane and threaten trades, while begging your jg to gank. It's the only way, really.

Marksman top are stupid and lack reasonable 1 on 1 counterplay.

Vanic9985 votes

I would suggest swapping lanes with someone on your team. Something similar happened on my team once. I was playing mid and my top laner, who was melee, did not want to face a ranged top laner so he asked if we could swap and we did. It worked well. I got fed and he was able to play safe.

jocomotion5 votes

item 1006 item 1006 item 1006 item 2003 at the start of the game is usually more effective in hard poke top lanes than item 1054 or item 2033 early on for a few reasons.

  • the healing is constant, weather you’re getting poked down or not unlike with Doran’s shield, putting pressure on the enemy to go SUPER aggro in order to get any lasting damage on you
  • Allows you to build directly into items like item 3077 item 3801 to allow you to stay in lane even longer
  • Even though you only have one potion, the Beads push your healing beyond just using pots in the early game (just be careful though, unlike with corrupting pot you get no mana sustain this way)

After your first back rush item 3047 and then try to beat him down in a 1v1. With the bonus movespeed you have over him plus the damage reduction and armor there’s no way he’ll build anything to beat you in a fair 1V1 after.

This won’t gaurentee victory, but it makes dealing with that range a lot easier. So far I’ve done this against Pantheon Vayne Ezreal Kalista and Teemo lanes and won all except the Vayne lane which we technically tied, with her beating me in CS and assists, and me beating her in towers and kills.

XxxLumberJackxxX4 votes

You were playing Jarvan wrong. Dont farm, Poke with his Q. If lucian Es into you shield the damage and all in teh fucker.

Axzarious4 votes

If you KNOW you're going against an ADC toplane then picking an assassin will usually make their life absolute hell. So that means Talon who has a bloody fantastic level 2, or an assassin like Malphite who can delete them once you hit level 6 and you're not too far behind and building your AP. If not, and your champion will have a rough time against them? Having resolve as a secondary will help with the poke with the that one rune that restores health. Run the armor runes. Both of them. Ninja tabi are something you can't go wrong with either.

GigglesO4 votes

{quoted}

or an assassin like Malphite

Wait a second.

Minimac20003 votes

He is talking about full ap malphite who can't really be classified as a tank or a mage

Muhai1 votes

Ap malphite is one of the best assassins in the game IMO he has CC gapcloser which is almost perfect and an AOE nuke. Can delete both carrys if timed well. Doesn't even matter if you die after that LoL

Serika Zero2 votes

How to counter him is similar to counting Quinn top for example. You pick boneplating in your runes, you go dorans shield. you beg your jungle to come top if he freezes the lane in a bad spot. And if he doesn't, you just endure. at 5, almost 6, you go back, and buy a drink one in form of ad and some lethality and then you all in the fucker for the rest of the game. Until that lv 5, almost 6, focus on mainly farming with auto attacks, abuse bushes and using your shield to endure while farming. don't use q for poke, one to farm caster minions from range.

But if he feels to fancy and steps up to try to force you to use q for melee minions, all in the asshole. That's how you play against adcs top.

Imagine you are an assassin :)

Thbigchief1 votes
  • How do you stop someone from freezing the lane? And why is Lucian better from that position then say a mage?
Lord Malpercio3 votes

To stop someone freezing a lane, you actually need to do a heavy waveclear. Crash your minions into their turret, and it will start pushing back your way (or simply reset).

If they don't allow it to crash, they'll take a lot of minion damage, and you should be able to harass them during this time - Even if they are ranged. And when it crashes, you might even be able to get poke damage/tower damage in.

Playing passive and allowing the freeze is simply not the correct answer. That's playing their game.

bluefire mark 21 votes

I've never lost to a lucian top, except for when i decided to stupidly play olaf top.

Ben SwoIo1 votes

[{quoted}](name=bluefire mark 2,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7KhkiF8d,comment-id=0025,timestamp=2019-02-07T05:06:30.454+0000)

I've never lost to a lucian top, except for when i decided to stupidly play olaf top.

Elaborate then to help myself and others in this match up. Who did you use? What was your build? Did you solo beat him or did you require numerous ganks?

bluefire mark 21 votes

I didn't get any ganks. I just either let him e to me, or walked up to him, forcing an e, then i dash onto him and kill him. Then once i have 2 or three kills i just kill him anyway. It isn't that bad, you just can't pick champions with no way to get to adcs or don't belong top. Pick something like fiora, rengar, nasus, akali, jax for example.

Ben SwoIo1 votes

[{quoted}](name=bluefire mark 2,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7KhkiF8d,comment-id=002500000000,timestamp=2019-02-07T05:31:01.678+0000)

I didn't get any ganks. I just either let him e to me, or walked up to him, forcing an e, then i dash onto him and kill him. Then once i have 2 or three kills i just kill him anyway. It isn't that bad, you just can't pick champions with no way to get to adcs or don't belong top. Pick something like fiora, rengar, nasus, akali, jax for example.

So basically play some op meta shit or gtfo? That's not really much help.

bluefire mark 22 votes

No, its called play someone who isn't trash. Anyone who has a dash. Jax, fiora , renekton, or someone like nasus who slows them too much and out sustains them, akali and aatrox aren't even op anymore. If you want to counter lucian top, then tip: don't play a champion lucian counters. Jarvan? Just e/q and he uses e to dodge. Vs walking up to him with jax then jumping on him after he uses e. Its that simple. BAIT THE E. OUTSUSTAIN, OR BURST HIM. It does NOT have to be an OP champion.

Ben SwoIo1 votes

[{quoted}](name=bluefire mark 2,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7KhkiF8d,comment-id=00250000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-07T06:11:33.593+0000)

No, its called play someone who isn't trash. Anyone who has a dash. Jax, fiora , renekton, or someone like nasus who slows them too much and out sustains them, akali and aatrox aren't even op anymore. If you want to counter lucian top, then tip: don't play a champion lucian counters. Jarvan? Just e/q and he uses e to dodge. Vs walking up to him with jax then jumping on him after he uses e. Its that simple. BAIT THE E. OUTSUSTAIN, OR BURST HIM. It does NOT have to be an OP champion.

Horrible advice. Did you not read my post? I picked first. You're acting like I picked J4 into him (which shouldn't matter, he's an ADC.) ADC players cry when shit like morde / brand goes bot but they're okay when they can bring shit like Vayne / Luc top? No.

And you're "advice" is weak. You're making it sound like "oh man it's super easy! Just do XYZ and you win!" Please save the belittling for someone else. It's not helping.

BTW, J4 isn't trash. Not sure what elo you're in but he's fine.

bluefire mark 23 votes
  1. when did i say j4 sucks?
  2. I am not belittling you
  3. Yes it is advice
  4. Counterpick was only my first point
  5. Did you not read my second point of bait the e. I even used caps. Or any of the other points for that matter?
  6. J4 isn't terrible, but it isn't hard to counter him either.
  7. Mid deals with all roles there, jg does the same, supp too, top and adc can deal with it too....
  8. Bramblevest? Dorans shield? Regen items? Potion spam? Lifesteal? Play safe? Wave management?
  9. Anything else you have to say about it that i can point out?
Ben SwoIo1 votes

[{quoted}](name=bluefire mark 2,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7KhkiF8d,comment-id=0025000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-07T06:36:31.907+0000)

  1. when did i say j4 sucks?
  2. I am not belittling you
  3. Yes it is advice
  4. Counterpick was only my first point
  5. Did you not read my second point of bait the e. I even used caps. Or any of the other points for that matter?
  6. J4 isn't terrible, but it isn't hard to counter him either.
  7. Mid deals with all roles there, jg does the same, supp too, top and adc can deal with it too....
  8. Bramblevest? Dorans shield? Regen items? Potion spam? Lifesteal? Play safe? Wave management?
  9. Anything else you have to say about it that i can point out?

Feel free to stop posting on this thread. You haven't added anything but toxicity.

bluefire mark 23 votes

Wtf? How am i being toxic? I'm telling you what you can do with advice i am giving you. How is this toxic man? If you don't want advice then don't ask for it.

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