Remove AP and AD.

Zero Shingetsu··2 votes·444 views

It's kind of pointless to separate AP and AD. Instead, why not separate basic attack damage from ability damage? Right now you have a situation where champions like Zed can do insane damage with their abilities, then follow it up with tremendous auto attack damage while they're on cooldown. You're not forcing anyone to specialize when they pick a champion. This would do away with "broken" champions like Yi who can deal ridiculous damage with Alpha Strike and finish off any stragglers with two autos. It would also force ADCs to decide if they'd rather be ADCs, or have the early poke their abilities provide, thus separating auto-attackers from casters. Right now, the word "mage" is rather loosely defined because so many assassins and even fighters behave like mages.

Have basic attacks fueled by one stat, and all ability damage fueled by another. Make players think about whether they want to do damage with their abilities or their autos. Make hybrid builds viable. Stop making tanks prioritize (as it is, you have enough armor-piercing items in the game that a tank with a ton of armor can be shredded in four seconds by the right pair of champions; why force them to build MR if the enemy Kat is fed?)

I think this is one of the best moves Riot could make right now, and it'd additionally make future champion design and item reworks a little less hectic to manage.

14 Comments

Eedat4 votes

Probably one of the worst serious suggestions I've seen on the boards ever

Zero Shingetsu1 votes

{quoted}

Probably one of the worst serious suggestions I've seen on the boards ever

Care to elaborate? Because from where I'm standing, every other MOBA on the market does it this way and all of them are quite frankly more fun and more well balanced than League of Legends.

Well, aside from Smite. Every traditional MOBA.

Eedat3 votes

Yeah what a wonderful game HotS is. Just kidding, its absolute garbage. Go play that then.

Zero Shingetsu1 votes

{quoted}

Yeah what a wonderful game HotS is. Just kidding, its absolute garbage. Go play that then.

I do, frequently. If you think it's garbage, it's likely a problem with your own style of play because there are plenty who don't feel that way. Granted, you're entitled to believe whatever you like. Regardless, this doesn't answer the question of why my idea is so terrible.

Eedat4 votes

HotS is garbage pretty much every way you look at it. Its just a MOBA dumbed down enough for 6 year olds to play. And yes, I'm qualified to talk about it. Made it to rank 9 around launch just trying the game out. To answer your other question let me just give a few examples because I honestly could write paragraphs.

  1. This game is already balanced around AD contribution to auto-attacks. You ever wonder why there's no 120 AD items? Or an item that gives you +35% total ad? Or why AD ratios are generally lower than AP? Ever wonder why you can build 800+ AP, but cant come close to that with AD?

  2. Massive swing of power. Pretty much every bruiser in the game is now gutted. AD casters are now gutted. AD items are now worthless. AD champs in general are just trash now

  3. game would have to be completely and massively overhauled. Every single aspect of the game would have to be examined and re-balanced. This would take months if not years of massive imbalances and magnitudes of fuck ups. This would easily kill LoL.

Keep your HotS ideas away from us. Riot already took DQ from HotS and look how shit that was.

Zero Shingetsu1 votes

{quoted}

HotS is garbage pretty much every way you look at it. Its just a MOBA dumbed down enough for 6 year olds to play. And yes, I'm qualified to talk about it. Made it to rank 9 around launch just trying the game out. To answer your other question let me just give a few examples because I honestly could write paragraphs.

Heroes of the Storm is fun. It's fast. It's competitive. These are qualities Riot is ignoring in its game. A video game is for entertainment, and often difficulty isn't what's fun about such things. The reason HotS is fun is because it runs on simpler mechanics. It allows you to think a little less and just throw yourself into the game right from the start.

League has a lot of die-hard veterans, but it's difficult to get new players to try because of how much learning you have to do. Things like AP and AD for example; which to use when, and how they interact with other facets of the game. As Riot continues making stupid mistakes and poor design choices, it'll start losing the older players. Making the game a little less complicated and a little more fun would be a great way to bring in new players to replace them.

  1. This game is already balanced around AD contribution to auto-attacks. You ever wonder why there's no 120 AD items? Or an item that gives you +35% total ad? Or why AD ratios are generally lower than AP? Ever wonder why you can build 800+ AP, but cant come close to that with AD?

Except that's ruined when you recognize that AD-scaling champions have two sources of reliable damage. AP is fine for burst, sure. But there's also far more armor pen in the game than there is magic pen, and as a result, AD can be just as effective for burst. Except on top of that, autos are also devastating if you have a ton of AD.

  1. Massive swing of power. Pretty much every bruiser in the game is now gutted. AD casters are now gutted. AD items are now worthless. AD champs in general are just trash now

How are bruisers gutted? They retain their utility, their tankiness, and their ability to deal damage up close. A bruiser who's peppering their lane opponent from a distance with abilities isn't being a bruiser in the first place, that's part of the point I was making. And if you want to cast with an AD champion? Go for it. Build ability damage. You're sacrificing your auto attack, but the option is there for you, if you want to take it. Additionally, ADCs are more or less unaffected.

  1. game would have to be completely and massively overhauled. Every single aspect of the game would have to be examined and re-balanced. This would take months if not years of massive imbalances and magnitudes of fuck ups. This would easily kill LoL.

This needs to happen anyway, because LoL is slowly killing itself at the rate its going. If they were to shut the whole operation down for five or six years and revamp everything, refining the technology and formula they currently have to a razor edge, it would breathe new life into the game and it's probably the only chance of saving the game in the long term. This is just one of many things they might consider during that upgrade period.

If they fail to do that, I estimate League will collapse within four years. And that's a generous estimate, going by companies who have run games in the past with an approach very similar to Riot's.

Keep your HotS ideas away from us. Riot already took DQ from HotS and look how shit that was.

I hate to tell you, but it's taken more than that. A lot of recent champion mechanics are pulled straight out of HotS kits. Riot needs to be more judicious about what it rips from other games, because DQ is necessary for HotS, where the player base is still fairly new and coming into its own. It's detrimental to a game with a large, established player base like League's.

Further, HotS isn't the only fun game who did it this way. DOTA, while I'm not a fan, is beloved by many and has a system where damage is merged into a single stat. Dawngate did the same thing. There are several Asian MOBAs who do it this way as well, and all of them are more fun than League for the reason I stated: You can think less and play more.

The MOBA genre isn't one that lends itself to excessive thought. The best thing for a MOBA is to let the players play. This idea is a way to facilitate that.

Eedat2 votes

Heroes of the Storm is fun. It's fast. It's competitive.

Yeah, fun for 6 year olds. Competitive? HA. I'm a silver League player but I was easily able to climb way up in the ranks in HotS. Don't think I stopped at rank 9 because I couldn't get any higher. I stopped because I realized the game was complete shit and boring.

Except that's ruined when you recognize that AD-scaling champions have two sources of reliable damage.

What part didnt you get from that? Its balanced because Riot knows that AD affects both autos and abilities.

Exhibit A:

item 3031 3600g - 70 AD

item 3089 3800g - 162 AP PLUS +35% AP from every other source

Exhibit B:

item 1038 1300g 40 AD

item 1058 1250g 60 AP

Are you still having trouble grasping how much more expensive AD is compared to AP?

How are bruisers gutted?

Because bruisers like Irelia Darius Fiora Illaoi Jax LeeSin Olaf Renekton Rengar Shyvana Trundle etc etc are heavily reliant of their abilites AND their auto attacks to function. Removing one completely would make them trash.

ADCs are more or less unaffected.

This has to be a joke. Draven Graves Caitlyn Ezreal Corki Kalista Varus MissFortune Lucian Ezreal Ezreal Ezreal Ezreal are, again, entirely reliant on their autos AND abilities. Hope everyone likes playing Jinx Ashe and Sivir every game because all the rest are useless

because LoL is slowly killing itself at the rate its going.

Yeah, its dying because they took DQ from HotS. I dont understand why they decided to take such a shitty part from a massive failure of a moba. Why would Riot take more ideas from HotS? LoL is still the largest game in the world, while HotS is Blizzard's biggest fuck up to date. And thats saying something because Blizzard also made Warlords of Draenor.

OH MAN NOT GOOD3 votes

[deleted]

Zero Shingetsu1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Y WOULD U DO DAT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7IvPftNh,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-07-10T12:45:35.931+0000)

no.

It's funny because I read your response in order after reading your name. "Y WOULD U DO DAT

no."

Catastrop1 votes

So you basically want a very poorly implemented SMITE itemization?

Zero Shingetsu1 votes

{quoted}

So you basically want a very poorly implemented SMITE itemization?

I can't confirm that as I've never played the game myself. All I know is it apparently splits physical and magical damage somehow.

Catastrop1 votes

Essentially, magic damage gods only build AP, which increases ability damage as well as auto attack damage. The same in reverse for AD applies as well. There is no in between, when you play either type, there are only one type of item(AD/AP) available to you. It sounds strange, but it's quite a nice system. Frankly if League did this I wouldn't mind. Yours on the hand is bizarre for a number of reasons because it causes strange problems for lots of champions and their itemization and a whole slew of items need to reworked and introduced.

Astôlfo1 votes

Go home, you're drunk.

More from Gameplay

More by Zero Shingetsu