There's more gold and the best access to all objectives, it seems to have great synergy all round for an ADC+Support combo. How did the game evolve to put these two roles in bot lane rather than mid, and what causes this to persist?
I'm sorry this isn't a bandwagon thread, please forgive me gameplay forums. http://imgur.com/R84Frf1
BALDG1VEN BOOMER41 votesWasn't done in LCS yet.
Also dragon was the only major objective back then , so having a duo bot would've benefit having dragon control. Mid lane usually was roaming every now and then while a Marksman would need some time to farm up, thus putting them bot instead of mid.
Brascus4 votesConsidering the herald has been added now, what's stopping the LCS, they don't have sentiments to snare them, just whatever is a new way to win. In a really good push you can get 2 mid lane objectives with herald.
Ralanr5 votesIt would cut down on roaming except from supports. Which would actually put more power into the support role and not tie them down to one person early.
Or tie them down harder because mid is easier to gank as a jungler.
Need Gold 4 Tent2 votesAs the shortest lane, I feel it is actually quite hard to gank mid. Top is usually the easiest (distancewise the same from bot except for the fact it doesn't have the cockblock champ designed to foil your ganks with peels and 24/7 uptime wards), which makes bot lane the hardest to gank, midlane second hardest.
Sire Hippington1 votesYes, thogh i think what ralanar means is that you usually have alot more opportunities to gank mid, even if the succesfrate isn't as high. It's central position menas you get close to it duering your clears quite frequently compared to the sidelanes.
And many of the high-elo meta junglers can gank mid quite well despite the short lane, especially mr. wardhop
Zane Zephyr7 votesThe new herald hasn't actually seen pro play yet, it will next week when it starts because they should be on patch 7.10 (even though 7.11 drops that week) so who knows how it will actually play out now.
Hong Kong Revolt1 votesIt was done competitively though. Notably, some scrub team sent Karthas bot lane and a duo lane against Faker's LeBlanc. The casters, as it slowly failed, showed that the long lane is needed to someone the 1v2 off of EXP and last hits. They also noted that the same outcome happened in a few other games.
AMYS GRAVE15 votesBot turret doesn't have fortification bonuses the way other turrets do, so it is more important to defend it with two people/threaten the enemy turret with two people. Putting your adc + sup mid means you will lose first turret gold to the 2v1 lane bot.
Erockandroll21 votesBot turret doesn't have fortification bonuses the way other turrets do, so it is more important to defend it with two people/threaten the enemy turret with two people. Putting your adc + sup mid means you will lose first turret gold to the 2v1 lane bot.
A more modern example, though their are other problem even if that wasn't the case.
Your Assassin/APC is also squishy as all hell. So historically, you gave him the short lane for protection. (Short compared to the side lane) Though the ADC didn't need that level of protection because they were already paired with the support. If you were to put the Duo lane mid, your bot lane would have to be Tanky enough to at least stall 2 people. (So more like a Top laner)
TeCoolMage1 votesYeah so top would go bot and mid would go top, 3 way swap.
hey maybe assassin/tanky fighter champs typically used in jg will go mid to roam while the support takes jg to ward more often and counterjg too ;p 5 way swap
Leetri1 votesNow you're back to the american S1 meta. AP went top, ADC mid, bot was the fighter/tank with a support. EU used the current setup and proved it's much more efficient by winning the S1 championship.
doodlebob66612 votesbecause mid is the shortest lane you don't need a support to protect your carry while in bot or top the champs played need to be either self reliant, think tanks juggernauts or anyone who can either turn a gank or atleast get away safetly, or have someone to help them escape, if they don't they become food for junglers like lee and elise, since putting a velkoz on his own bot makes him a free kill for almost every jungler in the game
Lushington3 votes100% This
DrCyanide7 votesAs I understand it, the notion that Mid champions are more vulnerable to over extending and dying to a gank in a longer lane (such as Bot lane).
I agree that having ADC/Support Mid makes more sense for objective control (easier to rotate to Bot/Top/Dragon/Herald), it's just a trade off of how far behind do you think your solo laner will be from the arrangement. If you're not putting a huge focus on those objectives before ~12 minutes in, then the current arrangement works fine.
Brascus4 votesIs that universal though? Considering there are high mobility champs that go mid 
or champs with pretty good disengage and zoning 
Also immobile champs in top lane are a thing too
DrCyanide5 votesZoning works best if you can get your opponents on the same side of it. Zoning the Jungler coming to gank you from the side and the laner rushing at you at once is a tricky task at best. In Mid, Flashing one of their engages and zoning the other usually means you'll be safe under tower a second or two later, but there's a much longer path back to safety in bot lane.
Most of the immobile tops are Tanks or Juggernauts with enough health to get back to safety assuming they're not super over extended.
archerno16 votesIs that universal though? Considering there are high mobility champs that go mid
Also immobile champs in top lane are a thing too
All those have high cds early. Fizz and Zed have like 20 sec cd on their escapes. Kassais weakest and easiest to shut down 1-5 , he really needs to be near tower.
Ye there are, but they are either tanky like Maokai or have some speed ups like Kennen, Jayce, Kayle ,Teemo.
sirwaterfles1 votesfizz, zed ,kassa en cass all have had some succes in toplane. Annie , karthus ,ryze , yas ,ekko ,swain,vlad,kennen, teemo ,kayle, morgana,azir ,lissandra,malzahar, talon are all champs that at one time or the other had some succes top. But all of them depend(ed) on the meta and general opness of the champ to make them able to make their stand there. Its the same with the jugnle: a lot of champs can work in the jugnle but most of them arent always a good answer and are mostly infirior situational picks.
Frightning5 votesWho is going to face the 1v2 in a long lane? That's a losing proposition for like 95% of champions in the game. Most typicaly mid laners, while they can protect their tower well enough, will get denied CS super hard by smart enemy duo lanes that will get a counterpush setup and then freeze it near their own tower. Makes it impossible for their lone lane opponent to get near the CS (so they may lose lots of xp too in addition to gold).
What's more interesting to me: You don't necessarily have to send your ADC to the duo lane, ADCs with self-peel and/or escapes can be laned against many meta top laners effectively, and some marksmen can even mid well in certain matchups. This opens up a whole new world of bot lane strats.
Zerenza4 votesThere are several reasons.
EDIt: Expanding on point 7, in addition, mages and assassins are squishy to, they can't go top lane because the lane is too long and they can't get away very easily from a gank, bot lane would produce the same problem for them.
Kal Vas Flam4 votesMaybe a new meta is coming? Never know, I guess we'll have to wait and see what the Koreans do. Lord knows NA isn't inventing shit lol.
KONO RUBICK DA3 votesbot tower is weaker that's what prevents it
OurLestrade3 votesNot much. Went against a Jinx-Leona top as Swain once, got absolutely rinsed.
Brascus5 votesDid your bot lane refuse to swap lanes?
OurLestrade5 votesDid your bot lane refuse to swap lanes?
I think so. This was way back in early 2014, don't really remember the repressed memories :P
dim2a3 votesPeople blaming "not done in LCS" are mostly wrong, if it worked it would've been done long ago, there is a reason it doesn't.
Laning 2v1 mid will not give you that big an advantage in lane, since the enemy can stay close to their tower. Whoever you send bot, however, most of the time is screwed in a 1v2, can be fairly easily denied farm, and will lose tower sooner rather than later.
No fortification on botlane tower is not the reason, it is small potatoes compared to it being a long lane. It is not done because it does not work well to send 2 people to short lane while someone has to 1v2 long lane.
Darkdemon6532 votesTypical mid layers have little in the way of defense or movement. Mid lane is far safer from ganks for those champions than the side lanes are.
FiddlesOnTheRoof2 votesSeveral things- mid laners are GENERALLY less mobile, and require a shorter lane to avoid ganks. Bot lane turrets have lower resistances, and first blood tower is still strong. You want at least two people doing damage there. Also, until LCS does it, asking a solo laner to go bot and try to farm around a duo lane will not go over well. We'll see how LCS prioritizes rift herald. They may cede first tower blood to secure herald and two towers top, meaning we may see the lane swaps again.
The Yetii Rider2 votesMid laners scale with levels. Shorter lane means access to more XP faster. That's the main reason it started.
Fed by Snu Snu2 votesAt this point, Riot enforcing a meta.
At first, it was the old dragon.
DarkRitual2 votesBecause the 5-man fiesta where top doesn't even need to burn TP sounds like fun.
Brascus2 votesI used to main top when I started but got really bored of how passive it can become, started going jungle and support to see that action like I was promised.
NakedGranny2 votesAnd then you realize that support is a trap which is why Riot has to beg and plead and offer incentives to get people to play any kind of support at all.
FilDaFunk2 votesThe paper towers bot?
Rainfall2 votes1.easier to get ganked. 2.Harder to push.because all lanes can roam on you. The exact opposite of what adc/supports want.
58697132DEL11 votesI say a similar thing wondering why people dont take a legit duo top instead of playing with a jungle. Like, if you took a tank support and a juggernaut or fighter or something top and just played that lane like it was bot (except easier cause it will prolly be 2v1) then you're gonna have some good pressure. The top lane could even take smite for farm, they could clear a couple jg camps, then just gank top and lane. I did this once, blitz/Darius duo, and oh man it was obnoxiously fun. Top AFK after 5 mins.
I'm not saying its a "flawless super hidden strat" but like, why does everyone assume this game has strict rules on roles? If you have a team that you can coordinate with, legit anything is possible and folks should open their minds to those possibilities.
Oakleaf Ranger1 votesbecause it really is a bad strat. All the other top laner has to do is wait it out until their jungler becomes a monster from two sides of free farm. Plus it becomes much harder to keep track of the other jungler when you don't have anyone in the jungle moving around. Also they can take objectives like hearld and dragons without the enemy even knowing. Yah the top laners isn't going to enjoy being made irrelevant for most of the game at the start but your basically giving the keys to the victory to the enemy jungler and hoping they don't know how to drive. That and if the top laner doesn't actually know how to 1v2 a lane and just feeds horrendously.
Aptest2 votesThey don't have to wait.
1 player can easily hold under tower vs 2 early game when towers are still useful, with the correct pick.
whereas the manufactured 2v1 NOT UNDER TOWER in the other lanes will have the other team begin to generate gold advantage really early on.
Oakleaf Ranger1 votesI mean don't tell me, tell the other guy. Plus they do have to wait if they know how to take advantage of a 2v1. Range champions tend to handle the situation better though but you cant know if they are goin to do that though. It really depends on how strong your champion is vs the other 2 when at 6 plus how much poke you have taken. Helps if your jg ganks around that point as well. 2v2 meta top wont ever happen fyi (at least as it is) Rift doesn't spawn fast enough where the 2v1 top can take advantage of it before the other top starts ramp up from the xp advantage. Not having a jg also means your not using all the gold/xp resources available to your team and instead go to the other team.
58697132DEL11 votesmmm it is possible that we just got lucky. I mean the blitz was a god with the hooks so tower didnt mean shit, and the jg yeah had 2 sides but it's not like we didnt ward and catch him out sometimes too.
But again, i was with a duo and we were in sync with communication and play making. In a way, you're right actually. 2 top doesnt work unless you have a duo, or a 5 man would be better. Even then the counterplay potential is high, but then again counterplay via player skill is a variable no matter how you play.
I still feel it's a valid playstyle in the right situation.
Oakleaf Ranger1 votesKnowing how to 1v2 isn't easy and can be very punishing on mistakes. Since its a situation that happens quite a bit when ranking up an account though means almost that everyone has some experience playing it. Its mostly just sitting back and soaking xp and getting as much gold as you can without dying and getting poked out. Really a test of patience. But mistakes can easily lead to death as well. Darius and Blitz is a very unforgiving lane. One hook from either champ is a death sentence for almost anyone. Still a bad strat though.
General Esdeath 1 votesMe and my friend are working on the new meta:
adc + support in the bot AND top lane with a solo player mid
CasterGilgamesh1 votessomething is wrong with what you just said I just can't place my finger on it...
General Esdeath 1 votesIt's OP? I know, but that's not wrong :^)
CasterGilgamesh1 voteslike im trying to find a joke but its flying over my head that kinda wrong
Thewannabegamer1 votesA lot of people are talking about safety and such with the bot lane being well ya know bot not mid, but a large part of it is you REALLY WANT your mage mid. Your mage typically is your wave clear and burst, with mid receiving minions faster than the other lanes your midlaner will typically have more xp/cs on paper then the rest of your team. Also mid tower is the key to an open map so you just want your wave clear there. Assassins go there because of easier rotations to all points of the map plain and simple.
Penta Penguin1 votesmid laners have high-kill and mobility early so they have the best reason to be in the center equal distance from anything
ADC is useless and needs to farm 20 minutes, also side-lane towers down open better map control so you put your siege-baby in a side lane, while ward-bot support can vision control dragon
sardiniii1 votesWell lets do a little thought experiment to play this out.
We que up as a 5 man, send our adc and support midlane and our midlaner bot.
Then what?
First off, our midlaner loses out, assuming that the enemy botlane is able to adapt to the change, they could zone him off of cs and xp, Dispite this, our botlane is able to do the same thing to the enemy midlaner. However, this forces the enemy jungler to gank/camp our midlaners. This is bad, barring lucian and rakan, very few supports and adcs have a good way to dodge ganks and escape. So they die, now we have two losing lanes. They bleed this advantage to top and we lose.
Its also likely that this never happens, that the enemy team does the exact same thing and no real advantage is gained.
Could it work? Yes. Would it work consistantly? No.
Sire Hippington1 votesMostly because many mages are quite valuable for teamfights but are pretty vulnerable on the long sidelanes, so putting them mid helps to get them save into midgame when they really show there power. Back in the days, adc also were alot weaker early on whil mages had a strong early-midgame teamfighting, so you would want the mage for those objective fights while the adc often tayed in a sidelane to farm up. Assasins on the other hand had strong roming duering lane, so haveing them mid to acces both sidelanes is benefical aswell. Additionaly, it's much harder to punish a 1vs2 on the short lane. If you have a dou mid and the opponent has it bot, their sololaner will have less trouble than yours.
However, with adc beeing relevant much earlier in the game and toplane haveing a relevant early onjective aswell, moveing the duolane mid has certainly some merit for early objective controll, though you need to be carefull with your sololane pick, the long sidelane is a dangerous place for many champs while most midlaners can defend their tower 1vs2 rather well.
*Edit: Forgot about the 'we don't want to enforce a meta but do it anyway' changes against laneswaps sin S6, so For the first 5 min, top and mid tower only take half the damage. Combined with tower-FB, this means not haveing your dou bot can cost you alot.
Catastrop1 votesOn paper this looks like a good idea but in practice it severely limits just who in the mid lane roster can now go bot. The last thing you want is some immobile/squishy mage/assassin in the long lane alone to defend a tower. They'd just get camped much like bot lane currently is. Seriously with how long they'd take to make it back to lane it would the easiest tower first bloods ever or if not then a few members of the team would need to come and defend which just opens up pressure elsewhere for the enemy team.
Not to mention the inherent red side would have since it be so braindead easy to gank blue side bot due to easy access paths via tribrush and river as opposed to redside's river only ganks.