Fiddlesticks, riskiest & weakest of all in duels, not even tocuhed in 5.16.

Icepaw··47 votes·3,059 views

Before anyone asks, yes my main is Fiddlesticks. Does that make me biased, yes. However, playing thousands of games with him over the last few years, i am one of few that actually feel the small changes on him on a daily basis.

Fiddle is one of the more polarized champions in LoL. His strengths are powerful, and his weaknesses something that punish you heavily if you take them into concideration. This is a fact, and is why Riot themselves have maxed the "difficulty bar" in their champ information screen. He is hard to play, and you need to think to be able to excel with him, however, the reward when you make a triple kill by enemies whacking at your mid tower is priceless.

Now, during the last year, one and a half years or so, Fiddle has been the victim of almost a dozen various nerfs. Patch 3.15 - Heavy nerf on Q - FEAR, reducing length. Patch 4.21 Silence version of E got a heavy nerf. Season5: His W max range got severly guttet. Season 4: Changes on jungle items, relying on AA for profits made his early game harder. Then, you introduced gold bonuses when having the machete, making it impossible to NOT choose it as a starting item. Then you introduce a jungle item that acutally makes sense to have (magus), just to replace it with such a bad item for him it gives the player physical pain just to being forced buying the jungle item cause of its gold income.

The worst of it all, is the attitude you serve. "Yeah we know it hurts you fiddleplayers, but youre gonna have to live with it". More or less that was said in the patch notes.

So in a years time, you have nerfed his Q, his W and his E, in addition to making him start behind everyeone else, being forced to buy an item he cannot utilize. This makes an already difficult champion like Fiddle so hard to play, its almost not worth it. Fiddle is by far the weakest duelist out there atm, even though he is an easy guy to clear the jungle with. So the few strengths he had, has been diminishing so quickly the last year, there are almost none left. However, his weaknesses are as stong as ever.

Riot, you claim your philosophy is to high risk, high reward. Well, tell you what. Engaging Fiddle today, is no risk at all for the other player. Fiddle has no mobility, no real strenght early game and are in gold deficit compared to everyone else cause of the items he cant utilize properly.

His ultimate is the one thing that makes him dangerous, and even now, with all the mobility on all other champs, his reduced ranges, CC-length and silence makes it too difficult to make a kill compared to his weaknesses. Fiddlesticks are inches from being trash tier, and mostly will be if you dont have vast amounts of experience with him, like myself.

Too see you buffing one of the most powerful, mobile junglers in the game, Lee Sin, makes me wonder where your thoughts are at. Lee Sin has NO APPARENT WEAKNESSES and gets buffed. Fiddlesticks has a ton of them, and dosent get any attention rather than the nerfs.

Something must be done!

My personal propsals are (make one or more.. not all)

W Drain - doest not get interrupted with soft CC and minor knockbacks (diana E) W Drain - Fiddle can move around at reduced speed and AA without interrupting drain. Q Fear - If not targeting a champion, it will automaticly target the closest champion. Interrupting R crowstorm will set the ult on reduced CD. 15 secs. Upon landing Crowstorm, Fiddle gets a small movement speed buff for the duration of the spell. Passive gets changed to: "Enemies affected by spells or autoattacks get a stack of dread. Each stack of dread reduces the magic resist by 5. At five stacks of dread, the victim suffers a slow, and takes 10% more damage from Fiddles abilities". (A stack can be gained each 0.5 seconds with DoT spells.) (A player can not be affected more than one time within 30 seconds) Give us something to make Fiddle a terrifying creature again.. cause right now he is as scary as Annies teddybear at lvls 1-5. Red response on this are highyl appreciated.

30 Comments

Cloud27312 votes

I'm going to be honest. Fiddlesticks is really annoying to play against. He has point and click cc, acts as a tank during teamfights (thanks to his drain), and has amazing AOE damage. On top of this, Fiddlesticks is almost always at perfect health for ganks after getting a few AP items(thanks to his drain). And he requires zero risk to jungle with, since he can just fear anyone who invades him. Fiddlesticks is still a great champ, even if he's slightly less effective at what he does.

I GANK LANES6 votes

no he's not lol. i don't even play him and he sucks now, invade his jungle and he literally can't do a thing

Voluug137 votes

He has point and click cc

Single target, short range and his only reliable defense.

acts as a tank during teamfights (thanks to his drain)

No. Can he absorb some damage? Yes. But a mere CC and he is back to being made of toilet paper. That isnt a tank.

Fiddlesticks is almost always at perfect health for ganks after getting a few AP items(thanks to his drain).

Almost every AD jungler can be at 90% thanks to AS/LS being extremely effective for jungle sustain. While having better ganks.

And he requires zero risk to jungle with, since he can just fear anyone who invades him.

Its the reverse. yeah he can fear anyone but that is simply not enough to run from a Shaco or a Lee Sin. Not to mention his Q has a low duration early and invades happen before he can level it up. And he is easily the most useless junger without blue buff.

TotalJerk1 votes

He's still a pain in the ass to gank with if the laners know to stay as far as possible from walls.

WhiskerWow8 votes

I think the problem with Fiddlesticks are very similar to the problems of Warwick.

  • His offense is tied to his defense. If he doesn't hurt you, he doesn't heal himself.
  • There's not much interactivity in dueling. You E-Q-W and that's it.
  • The two above means he either kills you or he doesn't and dies. Like Akali.
  • Reliant on level 6. This isn't too big of a problem imo tho.
  • Hard to get people to stay in his ult, but is incredibly rewarding when it does happen.
JedenVojak8 votes

Your drain change idea is horrendously bad. Taking the entire drain to the face sucks hard, and it needs to be interruptible - it is entirely balanced around that fact.

Q change, I don't really have a problem with it.

R hmm.... that would help him a bit. Might be too strong though.

Giving him a passive slow would be too much though; if they wanted to buff him, they should probably up his silence duration back.

TahmKench Expert1 votes

Ekko

Vortex Larson3 votes

I agree man I haven't taken my wonderful fid (top 5 fav champ - tho not my main) into the jungle since they flushed mangus down the toilet.

Potato Doc2 votes

Well heres the problem with fiddles, he by himself has a pretty strong dueling capacity but if the opponent has CC and tenacity he most likely will come out at the bottom. However with a good eye, quick thinking, and strategic placement, fiddles has one of the most powerful game changing ults in the game, the base damage is godly, the AoE is destructive, the fact he can fear at least one of the opponents for the near full duration of the ult and the fact he can move with it (and others like nunu and pantheon have quite a long casting time), much like a good oriana, morgana, ect... ult if you use it correctly you can easily take a losing team into a victory. Ive seen it happen several times. Back before all those fiddles changes he had it all, with the exception of champions like talon and lb who had silences that would just nuke him. Even with this he still had zhonyas as a good defense to dodge that damage. With the limitation of champions who had silences so went some of fiddles power. It had to go with the balance. Granted hes not popular but any good fiddlesticks player should be able to keep up with his wins. I have a friend who used to main fiddles and it easily took him into plat in season 4. Granted I don't see many fiddles players any more but i'm always afraid of those who are willing to play fiddles up in plat, because i know they probably know what they are doing. Which is still scary, knowing that one wrong play and fiddles will eat my team. Why fiddles is considered not as popular is the fact split pushing is super popular now. He thrives in the 5v5 scenario where his ult will make the most difference. If and when that time comes again he will be a strong pick. Much like how champions like olaf and urgot can recieve just a small buff, plus the meta shifts their way, and what was once thought to be weak is now considered strong. Careful with the buffs you wish for, they can bite you in the butt in the future.

TL:DR You can either have excellent dueling, or excellent team fight, or a mediocre of both, but you shouldn't have both be excellent. Its just toxic game mechanics

Remlap12232 votes

Sorry OP, Fiddle is annoying as fuck to play against. Until he gets reworked, he's going to stay shit.

Yeah, it sucks that they took your jungle item away. Yeah, it sucks that you can't play the champion you main seriously anymore, but I had to wait years before Gangplank was allowed to be good again, and unfortunately you're going to have to wait too.

They left GP in a dumpster forever and he wasn't even half as annoying to face as Fiddle. That either means Fiddle might get a gameplay rework really quickly after Poopy, Relly, Urgot, and Taric, or he's going to stay in the dumpster for as long as Yorick has.

Icepaw1 votes

{quoted}

Sorry OP, Fiddle is annoying as fuck to play against. Until he gets reworked, he's going to stay shit.

Yeah, it sucks that they took your jungle item away. Yeah, it sucks that you can't play the champion you main seriously anymore, but I had to wait years before Gangplank was allowed to be good again, and unfortunately you're going to have to wait too.

They left GP in a dumpster forever and he wasn't even half as annoying to face as Fiddle. That either means Fiddle might get a gameplay rework really quickly after Poopy, Relly, Urgot, and Taric, or he's going to stay in the dumpster for as long as Yorick has.

Im afraid you are right. The total neglect of the champ prooves they are not a favourite at riots offices. Lee, Syndra, Fiss, Yasou are. They get alot of attention all the time. Champs like GP and Fiddle, are something that get nerfs whenever a rioter are buttfucked by such a champ.

The Bearded Bard1 votes

While I don't like your ideas for changes, I do agree that Fiddlesticks got shafted by the jungle item changes multiple times. HOWEVER, most fiddlesticks players didn't even fully upgrade magus, similar to how most supports don't upgrade item 3098

Icepaw1 votes

[{quoted}](name=I am Maokai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7E4rMsQk,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-08-21T16:53:29.494+0000)

While I don't like your ideas for changes, I do agree that Fiddlesticks got shafted by the jungle item changes multiple times. HOWEVER, most fiddlesticks players didn't even fully upgrade magus, similar to how most supports don't upgrade item 3098

No, i know many didnt. I did not either in the start, until i experienced how nice the early extra 20% CD was, and i learned to really appreciate it. Then of course, they took it away to replace it with a niche item that only can be utilized properly with Fizz and Echo. A true disgrace for the spoken goal of diversity.

UdoIkOSc4u1 votes

you forgot the w theter range nerf random nerf is random

Nekusen1 votes

i wouldn't mind they nerfing Fiddlesticks 's Q and E in favor of

1- increasing his resistances 2- decreasing or eliminating channeling on his ult 3- some tweaks on the passive

Frooster1 votes

{quoted}

i wouldn't mind they nerfing Fiddlesticks 's Q and E in favor of

1- increasing his resistances 2- decreasing or eliminating channeling on his ult 3- some tweaks on the passive

his Q already got nerfed multiple times over the last years is not even OP anymore,one more nerf will be overkill.

Nekusen1 votes

{quoted}

his Q already got nerfed multiple times over the last years is not even OP anymore,one more nerf will be overkill.

he was pretty annoying before the buff, being honest he could delete champs like nothing (coming from a Fiddlesticks user). now he is too weak, but i feel he is in this state because of his silence and fear, he could become more balanced if those aspects are tunned down, and had something added to his passive like "damage reduced from affected targets" or just more innate resistance

LOL Spammer1 votes

Or just giving him a jungle item that he can actually use. I still don't understand why they took out magus instead of just leaving both of them in.

Silents4291 votes

He didn't use it anyway, Most mains were still rushing item 3157 before finishing Magus.

Not Katarina1 votes

I don't think anyone can deny Fiddlesticks is in need of some attention. It's less of a bias and more about caring about the champion you main. I like the power tradeoffs you suggested. After Magus got removed people kinda forgot about the little guy.

Hope this thread gets noticed! Upvoted :)

Silents4291 votes

He needs attention, not just buffs.

I don't agree that he is hard to play, I haven't noticed much differences after his nerfs, he is really friggin strong. He has a 52% winrate still even after all the nerfs.

I rather he just got a rework or something akin to the recent juggernaut changes, and I expect people to start screaming at me now, but he isn't THAT easy to balance without causing further damage.

Catastrop1 votes

I agree, I used to main Fiddle all the way through S1-4 1/2. He was my first champion ever and really it's sad that I practically never play him anymore.

The Loveless1 votes

Drain does so much damage at all ranks. I abuse the shit out of that midlane. Enemy disables mean nothing when drain has a short cooldown. You can work with a sapphire crystal/catalyst and build something else unless you want to get RoA first.

Can't speak on your problems, but perhaps you aren't harassing at level 1 enough? Drain basically negates minion aggro.

Also good lord no, don't let drain be uninterruptible by most NON-minor cc, as you put them.

CoolKnightST1 votes

He needs some small changes so he can work better with the new jungle item. Maybe let him deal bonus damage on his auto attack when Terrify a target. Or let his Dark Wind be aplies to his next auto attack & to compensate for the range nerf buffing his auto attack range to 500 & give his auto attacks 5 more AD. That would help his clears by a lot. It would also buff his support role.

aaronconlin1 votes

I hate Runeglaive on him so I build Cinderhulk instead. Anyway, I think some other possible changes could be:

- Passive: Fiddlesticks removes 10 magic resistance from enemies he deals magic damage to or casts Q-Terrify on for 2.5 seconds, refreshed on subsequent instances. Fiddlesticks deals increased damage to enemies inflicted with Dread for more than 5 seconds.

- Q-Terrify: Passive: Fiddlesticks gains 20 movement while moving towards enemies inflicted with Dread. Active: Fiddlesticks causes all enemies inflicted with Dread in a small area around him to flee for 1.25-2.25 seconds

- W-Drain: Fiddlesticks tethers himself to a target enemy and channels for up to 5 seconds, dealing magic damage each second to the tethered enemy and healing himself for a percentage of the damage done. Fiddlesticks can still move while channeling, but cannot use basic attacks or abilities and is slowed by 20%.
Mixter Yi1 votes

I like the passive change, but tbh I think being unable to move during drain is needed. It's the payoff for how powerful it can be. I absolutely love the idea of terrify giving movement speed towards feared target (should be more than a flat 20 imo) because that would give you time to get close to them for drain, but I don't like the active change. It screws over your Q>W combo because your only other realistic methods of dealing non-ultimate magic damage (to apply the passive) are E, W, and spellblade mastery autoattacks. E and spellblade make you stop to use them, plus E has a big cooldown and fid's autoattacks kinda suck, so both would be unsatisfying, and using drain first would just be counterproductive since terrify interrupts drain (or, in your version, terrify can't even be used). In addition to making gameplay unsatisfying, it would make his ultimate really overpowered.

Still, I would really like it if they made his passive more interactive like this and made q give movespeed.

MohawkBird1 votes

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Icepaw1 votes

{quoted}

Fiddlesticks isn't really meant to be a dueler. If you can get a could ult off he can change the whole tides of a team fight. That's his purpose: teamfighting.

Perhaps no, but any jungler champ needs to be able to at least survive long enough, or have an escpae opportunity. Fiddle is an extermley poor duelist with no speed buffs, dashes or other means to escape. He has a 1.sec cc that any mobile champ can regain.

His Drain is so weak early levels, any AD champ will AA the shit out of him. The heal part of drain might keep you alive the 5 seconds it lasts, but when the 4 seconds of CD are in effect, its your AA vs his.. dosent work.

Mixter Yi1 votes

I really hate how he can't even lane anymore. Can't rely on E since they made the AI retarded, can't use drain even when you play around their cc because they just walk out of it, even with fear. Speaking of that, riot really didn't consider how the nerfs piled up. Back when they made his fear cause enemies to run away and all that, they increased the drain cast range. Now drain's tether range is shorter, so if you fear + drain at max range, you only get 1 to 2 ticks in because they automatically walk out of it. This makes the earlier buff to the cast range damn near useless as there is pretty much no reason to use it at max range. And of course, you can barely use it by walking close to them anymore because you waste so much time doing so because they run away from you, making your already shorter fear have less effective duration (this is why they increased the range in the first place), after which they can just...well, walk out of it because of the short tether range, just with a few more ticks this time. Really, the only times I've actually had drain last longer than ~2 seconds is when enemies underestimate fid, or when they know they can survive long enough to cc you.

chide da jungler1 votes

The fear change (they run from you), combined with the short tether on E, has really made fiddle overly hard to play. The upgradable yellow trinket was also an indirect nerf to fiddles because vision is his enemy. Idiot laners are usually too cheap to buy it, but still.

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