https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYpqyr5rU0M&feature=youtu.be
lol jk, playing him is the closest thing to engaging auto-pilot in this game. Like seriously, this guy would be dead if he was playing a normal champion.
CHODES AND LOADS22 voteswanna see some funny shit, this happened the other day lmao
Ben SwoIo21 votesWtf is that garbage? He ate that Ashe ult yet it still disappears into the wind wall. #skill
Remlap12238 votesI think we've got a clear winner on the "most fucked up hitbox in the game" award.
abca982 votesMy video seems fair now lmaooooo.
SEKAI15 votesMost Yasuos never aim their god damn Q because the CD is just so short you literally can just press it like a mad man and it will just come out almost never stop. Most situations, Yasuo hitting his Q is not a matter of precision, but a matter of inevitability; and that's just bad design.
The same goes for his W. Why his normal spell W is allowed to have about the same power budget as an ultimate is something I won't get, unless it's the same designer that also made Zoe and her E ... OH WAIT. And worse , it comes right out of Yasuo's butt so even if you ALREADY hit him in the face with a projectile that still wouldn't count because I guess Yasuo pressed his W after getting hit. And oh even more so, because the thing is omnidirectional on top of a giant hitbox, so even if he misses it in a completely wrong direction he is still somehow allowed to block shit with it.
He has quite a few fundamental/core design issues, to say the least.
GayFluffyUnicorn2 votesBut dedicated fanbase and such. Seriously, why are so many people (20% pickrate even in diamond) spamming this champ? Simply because he IS overpowered in what he can do and obviously you feel very powerful and "skilled" when playing him. Kinda sick especially of riot calling his playerbase oh so "dedicated" what are voli mains then or udyr mains? fiddle? does anyone even know that champ? Meanwhile yas gets a free pass on everything other champs would have been reworked or gutted for MUCH sooner and instead gets buffed immediately because his mains haven't gotten a good winrate on him. Other champ mains can eat dirt because "good voli would stomp low elo" or whatever bullshit reason riot has to completely ignore a champ like him. If he atleast would get played midlane but nope always toplane where i'm playing any melee champ with long ass cooldowns on everything getting harassed out of range and outdpsed in a straight rightclick duel and even if you beat him all he needs is PD/tabi and maybe a bf sword/simple vamp scepter and there is nothing you can do to him anymore. If he buys frozen mallet it's over for you anyways.
Durzaka1 votesIf he is so "overpowered" why does he manage something like a 45% win rate? Clearly people are playing him because they FEEL powerful while playing him. But in reality, they are getting their asses stomped in more often than not.
Shahamut10 votesAt least the fist hit the wall... I thought for sure this was going to be one of those "hit him in the back, but WW..."
Nothing to see here.
SwiftKitten882 votesAt least the fist hit the wall... I thought for sure this was going to be one of those "hit him in the back, but WW..."
Nothing to see here.
i have seen videos of when he walled behind him self and it STILL blocked a jinx rocket... so yeah..
Yaśuo Main9 votesSoooo him blocking a Blitz Q is stupid or am I missing the point here
Teridax6840 votesI think the point of that particular video was that Yasuo managed to block a projectile on a direct path to him by firing his Wind Wall in what was ostensibly the wrong direction. The implication is therefore that Yasuo, despite being advertized as a skill-intensive champion, can get out of some pretty heavy situations without demonstrating really all that much skill. This isn't an assessment I personally agree completely with, though I do think that there are some under-the-hood mechanics in Yasuo's kit that lean pretty generously in his favor, such as Wind Wall's hitbox that affords less directional precision on his part.
Häxel8 votesI mean: Same can Fiora w do regardless the direction you use it if i remember correctly.
hi im seb16 votesfioras W is a different mechanic, she stands still while casting it, yasuo can move freely when casting his W
Häxel11 votesOn the other side Fiora takes 0 non turret damage while yasuo is still vulnerable to lasers. i don't realy know why people coplain here for not geting grabed if most champs could have dodged it with a dash (fiora q wih moving for example), if amde good even after geting grabed by blitz (tristana w), other invulnerable abilitys (xayah ult, fizz e, vlad w, kled dismount) would do the same.
hi im seb5 votesyes but all of this need some sort of skill to use the ability (or dodge) at the right time + direction, flashing in line often still kills you
and as you can see in this video the yasuo misplaces his W completly, but because the hitbox of the ability starts at his champion model he was able to get out without punishment of his misplay
if a fiora wouldve Q'd in line instead of to the side she would've died. but not him, not yasuo
DuskDaUmbreon1 votesIf Yasuo fires his W in the right direction, he has to time it perfectly to actually still block the ability. It's not like it suddenly becomes a huge-ass cube that blocks behind him and in front of him. You'd need to time it within a fraction of a second to block it if you aim it backwards.
The steam life1 votesOkay but like no because if he had thrown forwards he would have died so there’s only 1 scenario where fiora would have gotten caught and he didn’t
HeimerLmao1 votesWRONG. Fiora takes damage from turrets while in w.
Häxel1 votesdidn't say the opposite. Learn to read ;)
HeimerLmao1 votesOkay, sorry, missed the "non".
Troll for Trump7 votesFiora W is because she ccs herself. Her Q goes on longer CD if she doesn't hit anything, so she's punished for missing Q a lot more than other champs because of how bread-and-butter it is to her kit (vs say Yas E).
Xayah gets away because it's an ult (same with Eve or Ekko or I guess Bard too)
Fizz's "troll pole" has been complained about a ton. The only reason ppl stop is because the rest of his kit/numbers have been pretty heavily gimped and Riot created a new target for people to focus on with his reliance on landing R
Vlad pool leads to a long period of him not being able to do dmg (he can charge E) that, while offering a longer period of invulnerability than the other types, also makes him not do dmg for the same time. The rest of the kit really has no defensive tools either, so it's seen as more "fair," compared to Fizz/Yas/Fiora/Ekko's high mobility, Eve's stealth, or Bard's Q/E chain. Ok the pool does actually do dmg, but it's easily avoidable and isn't very high. Main point being, the rest of his kit justifies the invulnerability, so his pool is generally perceived as a fair trade-off for a balanced kit.
Kled dismount was also complained a lot about during release. A lot of people still find it annoying, but Kled doesn't really have that much choice in when it procs, and it should rarely be happening. His lack of agency in determining the invulnerability helps with the fair aspect.
Other sources of invulnerability:
Maokai's W: no idea why people don't complain about that one. It can dodge a lot of dmg and it's on a relatively low cd. I guess it's because he doesn't do enough immediate dmg (he can do a lot in lane) to the degree that people will complain about. Maybe since invulnerability helps him live longer, it's seen as a tool to help make him "tankier"?
Aatrox passive: similar to kled passive. Also counterbalanced by how horrible the rest of his kit is
Camille/Kalista/Illaoi/Galio/Pantheon/Xin Zhao/kayle/Kayn/Liss/Rek'sai/Taric R: It's an ultimate
Elise: conditional enough that people don't complain about it that much. They do complain how much it helps her dive, but she's supposed to be a diver.
Master Yi: If people complain about him it's his dmg and high ms. If anything his Q is seen as somewhat inhibitionary because it lowers his DPS, gives time for abilities to go off CD, and because of the "I was in alpha" meme
Karthus: Needs to be dead. And it's part of his identity.
Troll for Trump2 votesFiora W is because she ccs herself. Her Q goes on longer CD if she doesn't hit anything, so she's punished for missing Q a lot more than other champs because of how bread-and-butter it is to her kit (vs say Yas E).
Xayah gets away because it's an ult (same with Eve or Ekko or I guess Bard too)
Fizz's "troll pole" has been complained about a ton. The only reason ppl stop is because the rest of his kit/numbers have been pretty heavily gimped and Riot created a new target for people to focus on with his reliance on landing R
Vlad pool leads to a long period of him not being able to do dmg (he can charge E) that, while offering a longer period of invulnerability than the other types, also makes him not do dmg for the same time. The rest of the kit really has no defensive tools either, so it's seen as more "fair," compared to Fizz/Yas/Fiora/Ekko's high mobility, Eve's stealth, or Bard's Q/E chain. Ok the pool does actually do dmg, but it's easily avoidable and isn't very high. Main point being, the rest of his kit justifies the invulnerability, so his pool is generally perceived as a fair trade-off for a balanced kit.
Kled dismount was also complained a lot about during release. A lot of people still find it annoying, but Kled doesn't really have that much choice in when it procs, and it should rarely be happening. His lack of agency in determining the invulnerability helps with the fair aspect.
Other sources of invulnerability:
Maokai's W: no idea why people don't complain about that one. It can dodge a lot of dmg and it's on a relatively low cd. I guess it's because he doesn't do enough immediate dmg (he can do a lot in lane) to the degree that people will complain about. Maybe since invulnerability helps him live longer, it's seen as a tool to help make him "tankier"?
Aatrox passive: similar to kled passive. Also counterbalanced by how horrible the rest of his kit is
Camille/Kalista/Illaoi/Galio/Pantheon/Xin Zhao/kayle/Kayn/Liss/Rek'sai/Taric R: It's an ultimate
Elise: conditional enough that people don't complain about it that much. They do complain how much it helps her dive, but she's supposed to be a diver.
Master Yi: If people complain about him it's his dmg and high ms. If anything his Q is seen as somewhat inhibitionary because it lowers his DPS, gives time for abilities to go off CD, and because of the "I was in alpha" meme
Karthus: Needs to be dead. And it's part of his identity.
Solitair2 votesI think the point of that particular video was that Yasuo managed to block a projectile on a direct path to him by firing his Wind Wall in what was ostensibly the wrong direction. The implication is therefore that Yasuo, despite being advertized as a skill-intensive champion, can get out of some pretty heavy situations without demonstrating really all that much skill. This isn't an assessment I personally agree completely with, though I do think that there are some under-the-hood mechanics in Yasuo's kit that lean pretty generously in his favor, such as Wind Wall's hitbox that affords less directional precision on his part.
Not exactly, the windwall actually moves through the fist on cast, blocking it rightfully. because it starts further back, and then moves up, it happened to also pass through the fist. Maybe intended? Maybe not.
Meep Man8 votesI mean, he could very easily just side step it right there. Im not even sure it was gonna hit him in the first place. Not in defense of Wind Wall, I hate that ability, but to be fair.
PePsiLemoNN7 votesLet's hate on Yas for free upvotes :D. Half of the ''normal champions'' would've dashed out of it.
HalcyonDweller5 votesRegardless of your opinion of Yasuo. There is something inherently wrong with throwing out a spell shield in the wrong direction and still getting rewarded for it.
If this sort of power was trimmed out of his kit, imagine how much they could buff the more interactive and skillful mechanics in the kit? It's not a matter of things being straight-up nerfed. If something gets removed there is power budget freed up so it can be spent elsewhere in the kit!
PePsiLemoNN2 votes1.He doesn't even mention the W was thrown in the wrong direction , only thing he says is ''if it was a normal champ yadayada''. Regardless of your opinion on Yasuo , this is a Yasuo hate thread ;p
2.Are you saying they should remove his W? lol
HalcyonDweller3 votesHe doesn't have to, the video speaks for itself. Please don't sweep everything under the rug simply because the original post is a hate-post. I for one happen to be sharing polite and discussive ideas regarding Yasuo.
Of course not. Please don't hyperbolize. I'm suggesting that his W should not work in the exact manner that it currently works. Maybe it should appear after a delay (probably about as long as it takes for him to shoot it out in it's current form) instead of moving from his position towards the end-point. This would prevent it from blocking things that are not in the direction it is cast towards. That would be fair in my opinion.
Barkley6 votesAlmost as cancer as Tristana's W.
Almost.
paisy6 votesLike seriously, this guy would be dead if he was playing a normal champion.
etc etc etc
Sex With Annie5 votesPeople will really find ANY reason to complain about yasuo huh. Blitz Q has one of the most broken hitboxes in the game but yas having his windwall start from behind him is a game killer and makes the champ braindead.
Enloct2 votesIf Blitzcrank could rightclick someone for 500 DPS with 2 items we could compare their kits equally.
Yaśuo Main2 votesno god damn champion can do that and I'm glad no champion can
I mean, ur gonna tell me a reduced crit damage auto with PD and IE is gonna get you 500 DPS? hell no
HalcyonDweller4 votesLol I came here expecting a super polite and engaging balance discussion by the OP and then a bunch of people just commenting inflamatory stuff.
Boy was I surprised! XD I upvoted anyway because this is funny and it effectively highlights one of Yasuo's balance problems.
Yasuo needs some of his mechanics trimmed down to require more skill to use, and he should embody rewarding and skillful play, even if he technically doesn't yet.
Honestly what I want to see is for Yasuo to be tweaked in a few ways:
He needs stuff like this wind-wall auto-win shit to be trimmed off. He shouldn't be rewarded for unskillful play.
He needs to be tweaked so that he stops placing such a high burden of knowledge and skill on the opponent in order to defeat him, while still maintaining a skillful and rewarding experience for people who put time into learning how to play him and main him.
Stars Shaper1 votesMaybe because the only constructive part was the title.
The thread proceeds in showing a random Yasuo moment and doesn't argument much except a false statement.
HalcyonDweller1 votesEven the most inflammatory of posts can be turned into a positive discussion if one is determined to not get upset or argue over silly things.
Often times people are just upset and need to feel understood so they can calm down and discuss the problem rationally.
To be fair, it does seem rather odd that a Yasuo player is rewarded for throwing their Wind-Wall in the wrong direction. And I think that the poster has a good point about this, even if they express that point in a very rude manner.
Stars Shaper1 votesIt's common knowledge that Yasuo wall starts inside his hitbox, he just had the reflexes to do it at the last second.
The very core of the OP argument is Yasuo being an autopilot for winning, quite weird then that he sits at such low winrates if it is indeed an autopilot.
The simple fact that this thread is Yauso hate brings in upvotes even without even a resemblance of discussion, just false news.
HalcyonDweller1 votes[{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=79EfJufV,comment-id=0016000000000000,timestamp=2017-12-20T20:37:32.931+0000)
It's common knowledge that Yasuo wall starts inside his hitbox, he just had the reflexes to do it at the last second.
Ok? It still appears to go against the core tenets of skill expression.
[{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=79EfJufV,comment-id=0016000000000000,timestamp=2017-12-20T20:37:32.931+0000)
The very core of the OP argument is Yasuo being an autopilot for winning, quite weird then that he sits at such low winrates if it is indeed an autopilot.
I never associated myself with that claim. I don't see why you feel the need to argue with me about it.
[{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=79EfJufV,comment-id=0016000000000000,timestamp=2017-12-20T20:37:32.931+0000)
The simple fact that this thread is Yauso hate brings in upvotes even without even a resemblance of discussion, just false news.
.
Please don't sweep everything under the rug simply because the original post is a hate-post. I for one happen to be sharing polite and discussive ideas regarding Yasuo.
And I don't appreciate having my ideas dismissed simply because I am being lumped with other people who are hating on Yasuo unfairly.
Yaśuo Main1 votesIt's not in the wrong direction though. You can't really throw it in the wrong direction, since it blocks from all sides. It's a wall. The only real way to throw it in a wrong direction is to throw it in a direction that ends up with you getting hit regardless. That wasn't a wrong direction in the video.
Think of it as a really wide pillar if it's that weird to understand.
Also,
He needs stuff like this wind-wall auto-win shit to be trimmed off. He shouldn't be rewarded for unskillful play.
Well first off, Yasuo's skills itself punishes the player. The safety nets is the only thing noobs and decent players can even use to not feed their ass off. Also, if it was auto-win then maybe Yasuo wouldn't have a below 47% winrate mid and atleast below 48% winrate top. I can show you how Yasuo's skills punish himself if used incorrectly but that's a paragraph I'd only write when asked to.
And what counts for unskillful play? If you mean making mistakes and being rewarded then you have more than just Yasuo doing that, and if you mean unskillful spells then that also counts every targeted spell in the game.
Now I won't go off and say "FUCK YOU DUMBASS" because I'm not a jerk, but
maintaining a skillful and rewarding experience for people who put time into learning how to play him and main him
Do you know how much time Yasuo Mains put into the guy to even be good at him? I barely get an S at all now, thanks to his neRFz. I wouldn't even say I'm that good at Yasuo, yet I spent such a huge amount of time into him. I honestly SHOULD have a rewarding experience playing the champion I had to master to get that experience. The entire problem with Yasuo is that he is toxic and no one knows how to fight him. Why? Mainly because they ban him and not learn how to counter him. No one realizes that he's hot garbage even though you can show them the statistics in their face.
...
There is no real way to fix Yasuo's W. You can say "its strong" and "its hard to get past" and all that, but his W and his passive (the shield one, you know, with the shield that can block 550 damage but still get taken down by 1 single point of any type of damage) are the only things that keep him from being unplayable. You can't figure out how to not make Yasuo garbage while at the same time nerfing W, and it seems like RIOT can't either.
HalcyonDweller3 votesI respect you, and I respect your passion for Yasuo. I'm not here to argue or blame, I simply want do cultivate a productive discussion. As such I'm going to ask you to try to look at what I'm about to say objectively and understand that I'm not looking down on you, nor do I think myself superior to you. Let's have a constructive discussion!
[{quoted}](name=Yaśuo Main,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=79EfJufV,comment-id=0016000000000001,timestamp=2017-12-20T20:47:43.325+0000)
It's not in the wrong direction though. You can't really throw it in the wrong direction, since it blocks from all sides. It's a wall. The only real way to throw it in a wrong direction is to throw it in a direction that ends up with you getting hit regardless. That wasn't a wrong direction in the video.
Think of it as a really wide pillar if it's that weird to understand.
I understand how it works. I'm not confused about the mechanics. I'm saying that I don't think it is fair how it starts from within his character model. The way it is expected to function (based on the fact that he casts it in a direction and based on the visuals for it) is directional. But it works in more ways than just directional. I have a problem with the discrepancy between the expected behavior and the actual behavior, and how this affects opponents.
Well first off, Yasuo's skills itself punishes the player. The safety nets is the only thing noobs and decent players can even use to not feed their ass off. Also, if it was auto-win then maybe Yasuo wouldn't have a below 47% winrate mid and atleast below 48% winrate top.
Maybe it was unfair of me to say "Auto-win." I was mostly just frustrated by the impression I get, that he uses a skill in the wrong direction and it still rewards him. I understand that timing is still a factor, but I find it somewhat misrepresented if casting it as a reaction like this Yasuo in the video did - and in doing so, aiming it poorly - still rewards him with the safety that would be expected from aiming it correctly.
I can show you how Yasuo's skills punish himself if used incorrectly but that's a paragraph I'd only write when asked to.
By all means, write on! I welcome opportunities to learn new things about balance. :)
And what counts for unskillful play? If you mean making mistakes and being rewarded then you have more than just Yasuo doing that, and if you mean unskillful spells then that also counts every targeted spell in the game.
"If you mean making mistakes and being rewarded then you have more than just Yasuo doing that"
I mean precisely this. And other champions having a similar problem is no excuse to leave Yasuo with the same problem. You're engaging in 'whataboutism' saying, yeah it's wrong, but what about all those other people who are also wrong?
That isn't relevant to this discussion. If you want to make a post about how LOTS of champions are rewarded for their mistakes, go right ahead! But please, let's not derail the conversation here with that topic.
Now I won't go off and say "FUCK YOU DUMBASS" because I'm not a jerk, but
Well, I mean... you kind of did say it. But okay. I understand you are frustrated, and I'm not going to take it personally or get offended.
Do you know how much time Yasuo Mains put into the guy to even be good at him? I barely get an S at all now, thanks to his neRFz. I wouldn't even say I'm that good at Yasuo, yet I spent such a huge amount of time into him. I honestly SHOULD have a rewarding experience playing the champion I had to master to get that experience. The entire problem with Yasuo is that he is toxic and no one knows how to fight him. Why? Mainly because they ban him and not learn how to counter him. No one realizes that he's hot garbage even though you can show them the statistics in their face.
I don't dispute that he takes skill to play. He certainly does. What I'm opposed to is how his mechanics place an unusually large burden of knowledge and skill on both his player and his opponents when trying to play as and against him. The problem isn't the high burden itself, the problem is that a Yasuo main and his opponent do not have the same opportunity to develop those skills and knowledge.
The Yasuo main has lots and lots of game-time to practice Yasuo and work out all the kinks in their techniques when playing him. While the player playing against him only sees a Yasuo once every 15 to 20 games that they play. See how they might not have an equal opportunity to develop their skills against him?
(Fun fact: this is also why Yasuo struggles so much at higher levels of play and stomps at lower levels. It's because he has a lot of little things that can be taken advantage of (both as and against him) if you know about them, and at higher levels of play the opponents are more likely to have had the time put into figuring out all of the complex counterplay. And once people know his counterplay he becomes significantly weaker.)
I'm not arguing for Yasuo to simply be nerfed. I want the complex things in his kit to be toned down so that more of his power budget is freed up to make changes that reduce the burden on both Yasuo and his opponents when playing as or against him. I want him to be buffable so that he can be made stronger without breaking the game, and I want him to be made less complex to play against so that opponents do not feel overwhelmed by the burden of dealing with his mechanics.
There is no real way to fix Yasuo's W. You can say "its strong" and "its hard to get past" and all that, but his W and his passive (the shield one, you know, with the shield that can block 550 damage but still get taken down by 1 single point of any type of damage) are the only things that keep him from being unplayable. You can't figure out how to not make Yasuo garbage while at the same time nerfing W, and it seems like RIOT can't either.
Indeed there is a significant problem with Wind Wall. I do not think it is impossible to fix, but I do recognize that it is a significantly complex problem and the act of making changes to address it would affect a very large and passionate portion of the player-base.
This is why I like having discussions such as this, where we analyze what the problems might be and discuss possible ways to fix them without just fucking over the champion and his playerbase. The more we discuss it the more likely we are to find a great solution!
MagicFlyingLlama1 votesHe actually has a way higher skill floor than most of the braindead AD clickers - Riven, Darius, Zed ect.
All high skill ceiling zero skill floor. Yasuo (and Lee) both leave a lot of room for bad players to screw up spectacularly- and they do, and you can punish them for it.
Ben SwoIo9 votesHe actually has a way higher skill floor than most of the braindead AD clickers - Riven, Darius, Zed ect.
All high skill ceiling zero skill floor. Yasuo (and Lee) both leave a lot of room for bad players to screw up spectacularly- and they do, and you can punish them for it.
Riven and Zed are not brain dead.......you try auto cancelling with Riven in the middle of a match and let me know how your combo goes.
Mimr1 votesRiven and Zed are not brain dead.......you try auto cancelling with Riven in the middle of a match and let me know how your combo goes.
Riven and Zed still have a low skill FLOOR however. Anyone can pick them up and do half-decent with them. You don't need to auto-cancel with Riven or pull crazy shadow teleport moves with Zed to win your average game.
kargish5 votesHAAAAA that's a good meme
ninjaroxas1 votesWhile that is to a degree true with zed, riven with out auto canceling is much weaker
Brain Errör 4041 votesRiven without proper cooldown management is weak af.
MagicFlyingLlama2 votesRiven and Zed are not brain dead.......you try auto cancelling with Riven in the middle of a match and let me know how your combo goes.
Nobody even bothers on Riven, because you can just snowball and 100-0 people in your 3-second stunlock. If you dont get ahead, blame team and run down lane.
Brain Errör 40414 votesDid you just say Yasuo has a higher skill floor than Riven and Zed? LOL. Bad Riven and Zeds are 10x more easier to abuse than bad Yasuos. Bad Yasuo players just need ninja tabis, phantoms IE and frozen mallet to outright duel almost anyone in the game. Stop talking shit.
etc etc etc, in the end, it's not only yasuo