the MMR system needs to be as transparent as other games

MunchCrunchLunch·Jun 14, 2017·64 votes·2,195 views

title.

75 Comments

Mojihito666Jun 14, 201723 votes

Well no, its a secret for a reason.

People would instantly realize matchmaking is fixed.

CaveslothJun 14, 20172 votes

Maybe not fixed, but certainly a huge time sink for sure.

DeathBurstJun 14, 20174 votes

That's the dumbest thing. Why would it be fixed? In favor of whom? What's Riot interest in it? How would that makes them more money?

NocalexJun 14, 20174 votes

Well it is fixed. With a little effort and I do mean little you can prove it. If you play ranked like much of the community does and check your oppenents, there are many apps that do this instantly for you and tell you champ winrates, item builds they use, rank and so much more, you will find that perhaps if you were gold you might find yourself in game against plat players or be in a game against silver or bronze players. This is because statistically you should have around a 50% win rate. if its to high then you arent being provided a challenge if it's to low well then the opposite is true. So instead of letting the ranked system do what it is meant to do, get you to your skill level, it takes into account other factors and so you might be on an alt grinding up through bronze facing gold and plat players because you are "to good for your team" so they have to fluff up the enemy team so the bronze players on the opposite team has a chance. This is MMR in a nut shell, this is why matchmaking is fixed. The whole point of any ranking system is to "fix" the match stacking you with opponents that will be close to equal to your skill level one way or the other.

DeathBurstJun 14, 201710 votes

That's not "fixing" match making, that's matching you with opponents of the same skill level. Isn't that the purpose of match making, to find you opponents the same level as you?

And you still climb even in the circumstances you describe, because you failed to take into account another factor: if you're "grinding through Bronze facing Gold", you're gonna win 30 LP per Victory and lose 15 LP per Defeat. Even with a 50% winrate, you still win 7.5 LP per game played, on average, and you will climb to Gold, even with just 50-50 win-loss. So yes, it lets the Ranked system "do what is meant to do, get you to your skill level".

Also, if you're "grinding through Bronze facing Gold", ALL people in the game will be of a Gold-equivalent MMR. There won't be a "Bronze in the opposite team" to match with your own current Bronze Ranking (unless he's estimated to be of Gold-equivalent MMR just like you, of course). Maybe there will be a player currently ranked in Plat, but he'll be on a losing streak and will have an estimated MMR Gold-equivalent. The match-making put people all estimated to be at the same level in a given game. Sometimes estimations are off, but it always try to match people of the same level, always.

How can you call that "fixing"?

NocalexJun 14, 20174 votes

In any situation you are not playing against folks in your own rank it is fixed. If I am bronze there shouldn't be a gold player in my game, at least not one that actually holds a gold rank currently. Plain and simple. It is fixed because it rewards bad players by giving them higher ranked team mates and lower ranked opponents and punishes high skill players by making them grind through higher ranked players to get through a lower rank. Such as a silver player having to beat plat players to get to gold. That is fixed. Their win rate is high enough that the "system" has decided that the game needs to be stacked against them to force a loss.

Glory ln DeathJun 14, 20173 votes

Except it isn't "forcing a loss". It's matching them against opponents of the same skill level.

MMR determines who you play against. Rank determines how much LP you gain and lose. The bigger the difference between your rank and your enemies', the more LP you gain from wins and the less you lose from losses.

It doesn't matter what rank your allies/enemies are. If you get matched with them, it's because you are all at an equal skill level, so both teams have an equal chance at victory.

NocalexJun 14, 20174 votes

Listen the point of this thread was making mmr transparent. If you aren't playing the people in your rank but instead folks that match your mmr you should at least get to know what that is. If you aren't playing against folks in your ranked it is fixed no matter how you want to twist the words. If you should be against person A but instead a magical invisible, undeterminable number (by players) puts you against person B then the match is fixed. If you have a 60% winrate and are placed against people outside of your rank by a determining factor you neither control or are privy to then the match is fixed. Period. Its not a question or debate. I'm not even saying that they are wrong for doing it, but they (riot) are doing it.

Glory ln DeathJun 14, 20175 votes

Except that isn't even close to what "fixed" means! A match, fight, competition, etc, is "fixed" when the outcome is intentionally and unfairly influenced by some outside source. Creating matches based on MMR does exactly the opposite - it ensures that matches are as fair and even on each team as possible.

If the system removed your keystone mastery or artificially tripled your ping when you were on a winning streak or gave you a Challenger smurf on your team to ensure your victory when you were on a losing streak, that would be "fixing" the matches.

Riot has always been very clear that matchmaking is based on your MMR, not your rank. There is no "I should have been matched against this person". You are always matched against the people you "should" be playing, based on the matchmaking system, which works exactly how we have been told it works.

DeathBurstJun 14, 20175 votes

That's completely wrong.

In any situation, you should be playing against folks of your own Skill (not Rank). And that's what happen.

If you've got Gold-level skills (even if you're currently in Bronze), you should play against other Gold-level players (no matter their current Rank).

It doesn't reward bad players by giving them higher ranked team-mates. A "bad" Plat-ranked player will be estimated to be Gold-level and will be matched against AND with other Gold-level players. Maybe those other Gold-level players are currently Ranked Silver and climbing, and maybe they are currently Ranked Plat and are other "bad" players, but ALL players in the game will be Gold-level.

And it doesn't punish good players either. If you are Gold-level but Bronze-ranked, you don't have to beat other Gold-level players, you just have to maintain a very average 50% winrate, and you will still climb. Even if you lose just as much as you win, even if you get beaten as often as you beat them.

If you're a Silver-ranked player, you don't have to beat Plat-level players to get to Gold, you have to beat Plat-level players to get to Plat itself. If you're actually matched against Plat, it's because the system believes you ARE Plat. It doesn't stack the game against you to force a loss, it thinks you can actually have a fair chance to win a game against other Plat-level players, because you are Plat-level yourself. And you will be matched WITH Plat-level players all the same, not just AGAINST you.

tl;dr: the system ALWAYS matches you against AND with other players of the same LEVEL, not Rank, as you. If your current Rank is below your skill level, your LP gains/losses will compensate that, and you will reach your deserved Rank even with a 50% win rate.

Bob the ToastrJun 14, 20173 votes

The point of the OP is that this should be more transparent, so we can see how exactly our MMR is factoring into both our matchmaking and our LP compensation.

DeathBurstJun 15, 20171 votes

Oh, I totally agree with that, I even wrote a couple times to Ghostcrawler to defend this idea.

But!

OP didn't give any arguments, and "need" is too strong of a word. That would be a good thing, and it should be more transparent, but it doesn't "need" to. So, exaggerated title + no argument = useless thread.
I was not answering to OP anyway. My first comment here was in reply to Mojihito666 saying that matchmaking is fixed, and the rest of the "discussion" was between me and Nocalex, where I tried to explain how matchmaking actually works and why it's not "fixing".

Bob the ToastrJun 19, 20171 votes

Okay, I understand now. Nevermind then.

Champion SkinJun 14, 20172 votes

And it doesn't punish good players either. If you are Gold-level but Bronze-ranked, you don't have to beat other Gold-level players, you just have to maintain a very average 50% winrate, and you will still climb. Even if you lose just as much as you win, even if you get beaten as often as you beat them.

True though there are promotions which only cares about if you win or lose regardless of your MMR

DeathBurstJun 15, 20171 votes

Yeah, but that's also why they introduced Free Promo Wins. With the free wins, you only need 50% to win a series.

FreeVolibearJun 15, 20171 votes

the system ALWAYS matches you against AND with other players of the same LEVEL, not Rank, as you.

I've seen many instances where this is not the case. If I am on a streak, I often suddenly finding myself playing against better players. This is certainly fair since I am proving that I am worthy to reach the next level. My issue is that I often find that those on my team are considerably lower (in skill) than the opposing team. I find this to be unfair on two fronts. 1 - The balance of equal skill matching does not seem to cover the entirety of both teams. It feels more like Riot's system sees an imbalance in skill vs rank (MMR) and immediately takes corrective action by either placing you in a less skilled team facing of a more skilled team if your skill to rank ratio is high, or they place you with a higher skilled team facing a lower skilled team when your skill to rank ratio is low.

2 - There is no reliable lane matching mechanism for "equal skilled" opponents. Since the MMR system picks my teammates and opponents before lane identities are established. Meaning that someone riot considers of "equal skill" to me may end up squaring off against someone of lower skill on my team. The laning phase is a huge part of winning and losing.

Even if a player being evaluated by the system does really well and comes out on top, their opponents are likely dominating the less skills players on the rest of the team. They are essentially being punished for one player's evaluation. How the game is completely one sided through times of win/loss streaks is often so obvious and ridiculous.

In both cases, the ELO system originally developed for chess was based on a single individual matching against other individuals. It never had teammates to consider... Let that sink in. Even the current MMR system that replaced the ELO system of old is still based on the same concept. Individual treatment in an environment influenced by group effort. This system is not well suited to team play.

DeathBurstJun 15, 20172 votes

My issue is that I often find that those on my team are considerably lower (in skill) than the opposing team.

This is statistically/systematically not true. Maybe those "lower" players were tired, or had a bad game, or decided to try a new champ, or whatever. But the system definitely matches you WITH players of the same skill-level as you, too. Not only against.

Your points 1- and 2- are then valid arguments based on this premise, but since the premise itself is false, your conclusion doesn't hold.

In both cases, the ELO system originally developed for chess was based on a single individual matching against other individuals.

True. But do you have anything better to suggest? I know of no better system for a team game with randomly arranged team, than to ignore team-mates and just rate you personally, because you should get as many "good" and "bad" team on average, over a large enough number of games.

FreeVolibearJun 15, 20171 votes

the system ALWAYS matches you against AND with other players of the same LEVEL, not Rank, as you.

I would like you to post evidence that supports this very definitive statement. You can't. The reason you cannot is because the MMR system is hidden, thus depriving you of any empirical evidence to support your claim.

I made a statement based on my experience. It's a reflection of my observations. I find it difficult to believe that out of 1000 + games this season alone, that the win/loss streak vs matchmaking imbalance trend can be explained away by "bad games". You can search through the forums and you may notice that the win streak trend is not a new concept. This has been observed by many players in the community.

But do you have anything better to suggest?

Interesting request, I will quote you for your answer. See below:

ignore team-mates and just rate you personally

I wasn't looking to advocate for a new matchmaking system in this thread. While I prefer the above suggestion, I was mainly responding to the transparency issue with agreement and supporting statements to that end.

I know of no better system for a team game with randomly arranged team

Then Riot would be breaking new ground developing such a system. You would think that a game developing company would jump all over this... but then again Riot is not really known to be all that original.

DeathBurstJun 15, 20171 votes

Then Riot would be breaking new ground

I'm not talking about video games, I'm talking about the math/informatics theory. Even in theory, in scientific articles and so on, I know of no better system.

But back to LoL matchmaking...

I would like you to post evidence that supports this very definitive statement. You can't.

Well, I'm not gonna bother compiling the statistics because I'm already convinced, but if you're actually curious, you can always use estimations from op.gg or the likes. Check the MMR estimation for every single individual from your team, and you'll see that it is not especially lower than yours when you're on a winning streak.

I made a statement based on my experience. It's a reflection of my observations.

Memory is a tricky thing, and we are all full of more or less unconscious bias. I'm sorry, but I'm not gonna give a lot of weight to your personal observations. Even assuming that you're actually honest (which you seem to be, but I have no proof), it's not against you, it's because of how the human mind works in general.

You can search through the forums and you may notice that the win streak trend is not a new concept.

It's not new, but it can be explained even if the system is not "fixing" matches. The system tries to estimate your skill-level, but it can never be sure it has the right answer. After a win streak, it's likely that the system estimation is higher than what your skills actually are, so you're given harder match than you should be. Yeah, it's not perfect, but keep in mind: after a loss streak due to a series of bad teammates, the estimations are also lower than what you actually deserve, so you're also given easier match than you should be.

In general, don't jump to conclusions, and take a step back. Why would Riot try to fix matchmaking? I mean, they are not saints, but what would be their interest, what do they have to gain? Nothing. Yeah, you can explain your observations by Riot fixing the system, but because it's the first explanation that comes to mind doesn't mean it's the right or only explanation.

P.S. : I'm also in favor of more transparency, as I said in other comments, but I wasn't answering to OP, and that's not what we were discussing in this whole sub-thread.

Sraeg2013Jun 14, 20171 votes

No. People would instantly realize how fucked up this whole artificial "Ladder" crap actually is.

CyberBaltJun 14, 201712 votes

I just don't understand what even the point of ranks is when the matchmaker just uses MMR anyways ...

AdamaJun 14, 20172 votes

Bragging rights? Or something. Although mmr could be used for that as well...

Still, I prefer how it is now, but I wouldn't mind them showing our mmr.

Sraeg2013Jun 14, 20173 votes

This is a good example of change for the sake of change. It was back in preseason 3 and it still is.

Back then "MMR" or rather "ELO" was just that. A visible number used in matchmaking and your true rank.

Then they decided to slap a "Feel good" system ("Ladders") on top of that and make that your "true" rank.

Why? So people would feel good about themselves by not having to compete against thousands of players instead of competing with a small number of people they'd never ever actually get to play with or against in their own, personal ranked group called "Taric's Jewels" or another pointless crap nobody cares about.

LeonerdoJun 14, 20171 votes

Don't forget the protection from Tier-demotion. You have to lose a ton of games/MMR in order to drop out of Gold V (and thus lose end-of-season rewards). That's the one good thing that came out of the Leagues System.

Sraeg2013Jun 14, 20171 votes

The fact you need to be an ENTIRE TIER lower to get demoted is a good thing?

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/897/718/c5f.gif

LeonerdoJun 14, 20171 votes

Yes, it makes Ranked much less stressful for people who hover in ELO around the border of a tier. Would you rather hover between S2-G5 all year, and then abandon ranked for the last month (after achieving Gold V for the 7th time) just to stay away from the risk of losing your Gold rewards due to an unlucky streak in the final stretch?

I mean, maybe the protection doesn't need to be so strong, but it's certainly valuable to be able to achieve a tier and not have that achievement be at risk for the rest of the season.

Sraeg2013Jun 14, 20172 votes

Would you rather hover between S2-G5 all year, and then abandon ranked for the last month (after achieving Gold V for the 7th time) just to stay away from the risk of losing your Gold rewards due to an unlucky streak in the final stretch?

Yes, because you can still get to Gold 5 from Silver 1 with shitty ELO and be demoted like 3 games later.

The protection could only ever be considered a good thing, if you named it for what it is: A band-aid for the unnecessary obstacle in the form of promo series.

LeonerdoJun 14, 20171 votes

It's the other way around. The promos are an extra test to make sure you deserve the new tier and the protection that comes with it. Well, they're also supposed to be like a spike in intensity/interest in your ranked climb, but I don't know how well they are hitting that goal for anyone aside from myself. (Personally, I think they are more stressful/frustrating than intense/interesting, but I guess that's slightly better than a flat/boring climb with no breakpoints.)

But uh, my point is that the protection has it's own purpose. Promos and protection do balance each other out to a degree, but that's not to say that one is dependent on the other.

Sraeg2013Jun 15, 20172 votes

The joke is that getting to the next tier isn't some fucking adventure that requires you to solve a puzzle to test your worthiness.

Not to mention that the protection from sucking down the whole tiers is disproportionally larger than reward while you get next to none between with rewards being basically identical in both cases. I simply find it all needless.

Succubús GFJun 14, 20172 votes

I go up against plats/diamonds frequently. ;/ Ranking means nothing which is so depressing

TEA Nietzsche Jun 14, 20173 votes

I've been through your last 20 games and I've seen not a single plat/dia player. You get matched against bronze-gold but it's mostly silver.

Unless you are talking about normal games, but that doesn't have anything to do with rankeds.

Succubús GFJun 14, 20171 votes

in ranked there was one against a plat gp who dumpstered on with lb in ranked. But I'm talking more about norms

TEA Nietzsche Jun 14, 20173 votes

Which is obviously far from frequently and doesn't impact ranking at all. But tell me, how does an imbalanced matchmaking in normals make it so that "ranking means nothing"? It's an entirely different queue after all.

Succubús GFJun 14, 20171 votes

Literally where did I say it was strictly in ranked? Like show me where? Oh wait, you cant. You cant read either, apparently. If I am in silver, playing a normal game, I should play with people my same skill level, I.E Bronze/Silver/Gold, that's just how that should work for a game. Also you clearly didn't go through my matches because my zyra support game the enemy eve was diamond. Nice lie tho [slayer-jinx-wink]

TEA Nietzsche Jun 14, 20174 votes

Okay, let's take a step back. Your original post was this:

[{quoted}](name=Afk Warding,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=74E7yOcF,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2017-06-14T09:26:28.038+0000)

I go up against plats/diamonds frequently. ;/ Ranking means nothing which is so depressing

This post could be understood as two things: a: Ranking means nothing because you go up against plats/diamonds in rankeds (and your silver rank is therefore invalidated as you are still getting matched with much higher opponents).

b: You go up against plats/diamonds frequently in normal games.

and

Ranking means nothing.

With no connection between the two statements. Of course I assumed that those two statements would be connected because that would just make sense, they are even in the same paragraph. But whatever I guess.

So now that this misunderstanding has been cleared up, let's adress what you said (and please calm down, jesus. You called me a liar, said that I couldn't read etc).

If I am in silver, playing a normal game, I should play with people my same skill level, I.E Bronze/Silver/Gold, that's just how that should work for a game.

The problem is that people play differently in normals from how they play in rankeds. A diamond player might just try new stuff or play funny champions with friends so that they effectively play like low gold while a mid silver player may play very few rankeds due to ranked anxiety but tryhard in normal games - so that he plays at a low gold level in normals too.

Player strength varies A LOT between normals and rankeds - for most people. Some may tryhard in normals too so that they play just as well. As a consequence of that normals would be even less balanced if they had the ranked MMR.

Also you clearly didn't go through my matches because my zyra support game the enemy eve was diamond. Nice lie tho

Just read my comment thoroughly:

I've been through your last 20 games and I've seen not a single plat/dia player. You get matched against bronze-gold but it's mostly silver. Unless you are talking about normal games, but that doesn't have anything to do with rankeds.

I've been through your last 20 ranked games (hence the "unless you are talking about normal games") and as I said, not a single plat/dia player.

And again, why did you say this "Ranking means nothing which is so depressing"? What makes you think that ranking doesn't mean anything?

Succubús GFJun 14, 20171 votes

Did you notice that period? Literally it takes 2 seconds to notice the end of a sentence. There was no reason to misinterpret and THEN be rude about it. Asking for clarification isn't hard.

I go up against plats/diamonds frequently.

Pretty much everyone that q's in league of legends WANTS to win. If they truly wanted to troll theyd play blind. I thought this was just a universal consensus. Playing against people of your tier would be good practice anyway. A person of higher rank will have a better knowledge of the game in terms of macro/micro play. Point. Blank. Period.

The problem is that people play differently in normals from how they play in rankeds. A diamond player might just try new stuff or play funny champions with friends so that they effectively play like low gold while a mid silver player may play very few rankeds due to ranked anxiety but tryhard in normal games - so that he plays at a low gold level in normals too. Player strength varies A LOT between normals and rankeds - for most people. Some may tryhard in normals too so that they play just as well. As a consequence of that normals would be even less balanced if they had the ranked MMR.

Are we talking solo/duo or flex? I tend to go through a lot of games but here, https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=7aeyang His 16th game, against me in ranked solo/duo. There has been a few instances of over gold being in my ranked solo/duo games but if you just took the time to see the "." in my statement you probably could've guessed that I didn't mean "Sol/Duo Q ranked means nothing because I go against higher tier players in solo/duo " There you go misinterpreting again. English is hard, I know, but you can do it! :)

I've been through your last 20 ranked games (hence the "unless you are talking about normal games") and as I said, not a single plat/dia player.

Edit- Holy crap you are such a basket case LMAO. You are diamond 5 and played against a lv 23 and multiple gold/silvers in normals. No wonder why you are defending this, you want your free wins. I am actually wheezing

TEA Nietzsche Jun 14, 20171 votes

Seems that you are incapable of being civil.

[{quoted}](name=Afk Warding,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=74E7yOcF,comment-id=0007000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-14T14:24:16.620+0000)

Did you notice that period? Literally it takes 2 seconds to notice the end of a sentence. There was no reason to misinterpret and THEN be rude about it. Asking for clarification isn't hard.

It is not entirely unusual to see two sentences next to each other that are related to each other in subject - in fact, that is actually very common. If you plan on suddenly starting an entirely new topic I suggest you do that in a different paragraph. Especially when it is a single sentence that requires explanation most people would desperately look for context.

Pretty much everyone that q's in league of legends WANTS to win. If they truly wanted to troll theyd play blind. I thought this was just a universal consensus. Playing against people of your tier would be good practice anyway. A person of higher rank will have a better knowledge of the game in terms of macro/micro play. Point. Blank. Period.

Ask any high elo player whether they play even remotely as serious in normals as they do in rankeds. Or even ask them if they play even remotely as serious in flex as they do in soloQ. Normals and flex are used to play with friends and troll and in my experience winning is far from the biggest priority when playing with friends.

person of higher rank will have a better knowledge of the game

What the actual... What happened to "Ranking means nothing which is so depressing". You are contradicting yourself in an attempt to safe face.

Are we talking solo/duo or flex? I tend to go through a lot of games but here, https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=7aeyang His 16th game, against me in ranked solo/duo. There has been a few instances of over gold being in my ranked solo/duo games but if you just took the time to see the "." in my statement you probably could've guessed that I didn't mean "Sol/Duo Q ranked means nothing because I go against higher tier players in solo/duo " There you go misinterpreting again. English is hard, I know, but you can do it! :)

Yeah that proves my point, you went against a single plat 5 player with a gold MMR in your last 40 games. I've acknowledged the possibility that you might refer to normals but I pointed out that it wouldn't make any sense at all if you did mean that. I am terribly sorry for assuming that you'd make sense, I am now fully aware of this mistake of mine and will never again assume that you may be reasonable.

Edit- Holy crap you are such a basket case LMAO. You are diamond 5 and played against a lv 23 and multiple gold/silvers in normals. No wonder why you are defending this, you want your free wins. I am actually wheezing

I have a 60% winrate over my last 87 normal games (maximum of games that op.gg can find) and a 61% winrate in ranked. But I suppose winning is a foreign concept to you as you fail to do so in any queue that you play in.

SolidariusJun 14, 20172 votes

quick question...

If a DIA player can have a badgame or simply troll and play like a gold 3 and a gold 3 can have a good game/try hard and play like a DIA, whats the difference between them?

I get what u guys are saying... but do you know how frustrating it is to shit on your lane opponent in a normal game only for them to be carried by the "DIA" jung.

I cant complain, I got gold this season even through I had to climb through fucking silver to do it but there was not 1 time or 1 game in Silver I knew that I was not worthy of gold, its a fucking bullshit grind, all it is

the funny thing is a week or so ago, my mmr said I was gold 1-3 now it says silver 5 like wtf, so If I intentionally feed my arse off for a few games ill have bronze 5 mmr and be qued with bronze 5's in ranked?

TEA Nietzsche Jun 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

quick question...

If a DIA player can have a badgame or simply troll and play like a gold 3 and a gold 3 can have a good game/try hard and play like a DIA, whats the difference between them?

I doubt that a G3 can tryhard and play like a dia player unless the G3 is actually a dia player in skill but just didn't play enough rankeds to get the appropriate rank.

If we assume that everyone has a significant amount of games played in ranked then the dia player can play at G3 lvl in normals while the G3 player can't really play better than G3 - but both end up playing on the same lvl.

That means the difference is that the Dia player can play on Dia level, the G3 player can't.

I get what u guys are saying... but do you know how frustrating it is to shit on your lane opponent in a normal game only for them to be carried by the "DIA" jung.

I'm afraid that normals/flex are inherently unbalanced and there is no way to fix that. I've played against high dia/master in flex and normals and whenever that happens I just try to use this as a learning experience.

the funny thing is a week or so ago, my mmr said I was gold 1-3 now it says silver 5 like wtf, so If I intentionally feed my arse off for a few games ill have bronze 5 mmr and be qued with bronze 5's in ranked?

What site do you use? Op.gg shows G5 to me, but you should just keep in mind that these sites are not perfect. If you want to climb just win games, that's really all there is to it. Ignore MMR/LP gain, it really doesn't matter in the end.

SolidariusJun 14, 20171 votes

Might of went back up, last time I checked it it said I was Silver 4-5, before that when I was on a few wins streak it said gold 2 or something,

I use op.gg and lolking sometimes

I dont wana climb, my current skill level is gold and thats all I want. I just want ggs and not 1 sided stomp games even if I am on that team that is 20-0 at 5min mark

p.s. I seen some gold players play like DIA, its just a matter of perspective on what a DIA player plays like.

Challenger EonJun 14, 20172 votes

"Pretty much everyone that q's in league of legends WANTS to win. If they truly wanted to troll theyd play blind. I thought this was just a universal consensus. Playing against people of your tier would be good practice anyway. A person of higher rank will have a better knowledge of the game in terms of macro/micro play. Point. Blank. Period."

It is a well known fact that people use normal draft as their playground. If a silver player gets matched against a plat or diamond player and wins, you can be damn sure that plat or diamond wasn't trying or was practicing something completely new. If you think higher elo players don't que for normals for screwing around, make a thread about it on reddit and the boards and you'll get far more responses saying "yes."

"Are we talking solo/duo or flex? I tend to go through a lot of games but here, https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=7aeyang His 16th game, against me in ranked solo/duo. There has been a few instances of over gold being in my ranked solo/duo games but if you just took the time to see the "." in my statement you probably could've guessed that I didn't mean "Sol/Duo Q ranked means nothing because I go against higher tier players in solo/duo " There you go misinterpreting again. English is hard, I know, but you can do it! :)"

One single game out of 40 solo que ranked matches doesn't de-legitimatize ranked. You have almost 700 games at a 50 percent win rate in mid silver because you aren't good enough to be higher, period. Quit trying to blame match making.

"Edit- Holy crap you are such a basket case LMAO. You are diamond 5 and played against a lv 23 and multiple gold/silvers in normals. No wonder why you are defending this, you want your free wins. I am actually wheezing"

You do realize the majority of his normals have at least one other diamond against his team, right? You do realize that it's harder to find people at his skill level to throw into a normal match against him right? When there isn't a diamond player on the other team it's because none are available to be matched against him at the time.

"700 solo que ranked games this season, 50 percent win rate stuck at mid silver but match making holds me back btw"

Challenger EonJun 14, 20171 votes

How does ranking mean nothing when the only time you ever go against a higher elo player is in normals? I went through your ranked matches and you are playing against silver, golds and even occasionally bronze players.

Succubús GFJun 14, 20171 votes

Go look at a leblanc 5 days ago, against a gp https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=7aeyang Is his summoner, his match against me is easier to find because he plays less frequently. He is plat and went against me, a silver 3, I was silver 2 at the time though. You clearly haven't gone through my ranked matchs but kay~

Challenger EonJun 14, 20171 votes

Exactly what the other dude who responded to you said. He was premade with a lower ranked player while also having shit MMR due to a losing streak at the time. So you are really going to take one single game out of your last 40+ ranked matches to completely disregard the legitimacy of ranked? Holy fuck. You have almost 700 ranked games this season and have a 50 percent win rate at silver 3, that isn't due to you playing against high elo players

Inting PillowJun 14, 20171 votes

op.gg

LegacyDAPJun 14, 201710 votes

not accurate.

TeemodanegroJun 14, 20171 votes

What? In leagues its transparent as fuck. You have a division within a league within a game.

Go play cs, talk about transparency to me afterwards lmfao!

MunchCrunchLunchJun 14, 20179 votes

{quoted}

What? In leagues its transparent as fuck. You have a division within a league within a game.

Go play cs, talk about transparency to me afterwards lmfao!

are you kidding. you realize that the rank system is merely so casuals understand it and make it more than just a number

even tho it SHITS on matchmaking.

GayFluffyUnicornJun 14, 20176 votes

How is it transparent when gold 5 plays with gold 3. Or a diamond 5 gets into games with plat or dia 5/4. The entire system is worthless when every game gets determined by your hidden MMR which is hidden thus the division/tier you are in is completely worthless. It's the opposite of transparent. Give us our current MMR number only visible by yourself on your profile so noone is hurting your feelings and we are good.