Meddler context on what you are trying to do with this Irelia passive changes.

Irelia Bot·Jul 27, 2016·25 votes·2,489 views

All i can figure from them is "split pusher" but there are far better options for split pushing then Irelia.

Is the goal to make Irelia have basically no passive in team fights unless her team is already down a person?

This is one of those changes that will actually have a major impact on the feel of playing Irelia since CC will be a bigger effect in team fights.

EDIT: This can also likely be used to show if irelia has a ally hiding in a bush please reconsider this change for this reason alone. It is the same issue as the old fiddle passive giving his hiding in a bush away.

68 Comments

Sire HippingtonJul 27, 201611 votes

I think that pbe changes are like two steps backwards. As i see it, one of the biggest issues with balanceing fighter's on the past(and still) was/is keeping their 1v1 in check without giving them pathetic teamfights( Aatrox ), and one of the main reasons for why fighters suck in teamfights is that they get fucked really hard by all the cc flying around as they are melee and have sustained damage patterns rather than raw burst. Irelia's passive was for me a rather good atempt on giving a fighter better cards in a teamfight without really impacting the 1v1 scenario, with actuallly good succes. Her kit might overall have many flaws(or to little^^), but her passive imo is non of them. Usually what breakes fighter type champs when they get op is that they start to deal to much frontloaded damage, so they actually develop assasin patterns with high burst rather than relying on sustained dps, which currently is refflectd by her yomuu's+Duskblade builts.

If those changes come through, she will just get lean more towards the usuall binary fighter patterns of destroying 1v1 and useing that snowball to get enough damage for asassin patterns(or getting really tanky while haveing enough damage to kill quickly), or not destroying 1v1 and beeing bad in teamfights.

I think nerfing her passive goes into the entierly wrong direction. What she needs is a nerf to her burst(with MAYBE a compensation survivabillity or dps). Either her Q needs to get the last buff reverted, it wasn't warranted anyway, or her ult needs to loose some damage(and maybe get the healing disjointed from the damage done, similar to renektons Q)

cope momentJul 27, 20161 votes

imo irelia's ult is only good for teamfight poking or chasing down their top laner in lane. i might be using it wrong, but irelia's ult is the last thing they should nerf atm

Sire HippingtonJul 27, 20161 votes

You certainly use it wrong(or atleast not right, it certainly is good in the cases you use it, but not only in those situations^^). All 4 shots together add up to massive damage while healing, allowing her an absurd lvl 6 all in in most matchups. At level 6, the full ult deals 320+2.6 AD damage, while also healing for a good portion of that damage(espeially if you hit minions aswell) To put those numbers in relation, Lee sins ult does 200+2.0 AD, Talons ult does 240+1.5 AD.

A Basic IslandJul 27, 20167 votes

What's the change?

Hasn't it be unanimously agreed on that she has one of the most broken passives in game?

Irelia BotJul 27, 201610 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Basic Island,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6yMNjYwn,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-07-27T01:05:29.632+0000)

What's the change?

Hasn't it be unanimously agreed on that she has one of the most broken passives in game?

And she relies on it to be effective in team fights.

A Basic IslandJul 27, 20167 votes

uh, no

Other melee champions manage to be effective without a huge tenacity bonus so obviously irela doesn't "need" it

she may need something after the change if it goes through, but it's not like cc immunity is making or breaking irelia

Akali is SO HOTJul 27, 201614 votes

Other melee champions have different tools to be effective in teamfights. Jax gets a boatload of Armor and Magic Resist, Trundle steals Health, Armor, and Magic Resist, Maokai has his ult, Wukong has his passive, and so on and so forth. Irelia's defensive tool to be effective is her Tenacity.

A Basic IslandJul 27, 20161 votes

so you're saying give irelia a different passive that has damage mitigation?

So you're saying irelia doesn't have any other tools other than cc reduction? No true damage, no stun, no infinite gap close?

Irelia BotJul 27, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Basic Island,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6yMNjYwn,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-27T03:01:07.507+0000)

so you're saying give irelia a different passive that has damage mitigation?

So you're saying irelia doesn't have any other tools other than cc reduction? No true damage, no stun, no infinite gap close?

Why am I responding to one of these not posting on main account plebs?

It Hertz When IPJul 27, 20161 votes

An argument is an argument. His main account's identity isn't relevant here, as he's asked very straightforward questions (that I can't answer because I've never played Irelia): should she receive a damage mitigation passive? and does she have any tools other than tenacity? I fail to see how someone's match history changes a champion's basic mechanics.

Akali is SO HOTJul 27, 201613 votes

Non of those are defensive tools

Jhin UItd JFKJul 27, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Akali is SO HOT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6yMNjYwn,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-27T01:53:46.952+0000)

Other melee champions have different tools to be effective in teamfights. Jax gets a boatload of Armor and Magic Resist, Trundle steals Health, Armor, and Magic Resist, Maokai has his ult, Wukong has his passive, and so on and so forth. Irelia's defensive tool to be effective is her Tenacity.

She has lifesteal with her empowered autos and her ult also restores her health. I'd consider that defensive.

Irelia BotJul 27, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jhin UItd JFK,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6yMNjYwn,comment-id=00010000000000000001,timestamp=2016-07-27T04:45:25.124+0000)

She has lifesteal with her empowered autos and her ult also restores her health. I'd consider that defensive.

Calling it life steal? Are you sure you know what you are talking about?

Jhin UItd JFKJul 27, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6yMNjYwn,comment-id=000100000000000000010000,timestamp=2016-07-27T04:50:14.536+0000)

Calling it life steal? Are you sure you know what you are talking about?

Oh.

Ok, umm...

Taken from the wiki; PASSIVE: Irelia's basic attacks heal her.

I'd consider that lifesteal, but if you want to get specific, then fine... "heal on hit." There I said it.

It Hertz When IPJul 27, 20162 votes

Lifesteal takes that health from other people and scales from damage, AS, and armor penetration. Heal on hit is affected only by AS and Spirit Visage.

Hinagiku33Jul 28, 20161 votes

No, Lifesteal is a named mechanic with very specific rules.

That's like saying Ahri's passive still has Spellvamp.

SidestepJul 27, 20165 votes

Lifesteal is considered a form of defensive tool, however it's far from effective. Aatrox is a perfect example Imo.

Jhin UItd JFKJul 27, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Basic Island,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6yMNjYwn,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2016-07-27T01:34:52.605+0000)

uh, no

Other melee champions manage to be effective without a huge tenacity bonus so obviously irela doesn't "need" it

she may need something after the change if it goes through, but it's not like cc immunity is making or breaking irelia

if you try to justify the nerf irelia mains will just come and downvote you because you offended their waifu and they wont listen to reason

Irelia BotJul 27, 20167 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jhin UItd JFK,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6yMNjYwn,comment-id=0001000000000001,timestamp=2016-07-27T04:02:21.927+0000)

if you try to justify the nerf irelia mains will just come and downvote you because you offended their waifu and they wont listen to reason

I'll remember this when there are Jhin nerfs should you try to defend him.

Jhin UItd JFKJul 27, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6yMNjYwn,comment-id=00010000000000010001,timestamp=2016-07-27T04:40:14.998+0000)

I'll remember this when there are Jhin nerfs should you try to defend him.

oops i offended ur waifu hehe xd

And for the record, I agree my "main" could use some nerfs, as I'm not delusional.

Irelia BotJul 27, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jhin UItd JFK,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6yMNjYwn,comment-id=000100000000000100010000,timestamp=2016-07-27T04:43:33.439+0000)

oops i offended ur waifu hehe xd

And for the record, I agree my "main" could use some nerfs, as I'm not delusional.

That is what they say until it is something that hugely impacts the play style.

And what if my Waifu is actually Karma?

Jhin UItd JFKJul 27, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6yMNjYwn,comment-id=0001000000000001000100000000,timestamp=2016-07-27T04:49:02.715+0000)

That is what they say until it is something that hugely impacts the play style.

And what if my Waifu is actually Karma?

Hugely impacts the playstyle? You mean a rework?

And if your waifu is Karma just name change to Karma Bot :D

Irelia BotJul 27, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jhin UItd JFK,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6yMNjYwn,comment-id=00010000000000010001000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-27T04:59:50.632+0000)

Hugely impacts the playstyle? You mean a rework?

And if your waifu is Karma just name change to Karma Bot :D

Friends with Karma bot. We kinda have to take turns on who is bot though.

I am saying something like if Jhin only got the movement speed boost when more enemies are near by then allies.

Irelia BotJul 27, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Basic Island,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6yMNjYwn,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-07-27T01:05:29.632+0000)

What's the change?

Hasn't it be unanimously agreed on that she has one of the most broken passives in game?

It is something Irelia has that most every other champ does not and it is oftne underestimated as to how useful it actually is.

Say that Volibear had his passive only proc when no allies were nearby. This is effectively what this nerf is doing to Irelia.

LankPantsJul 27, 20167 votes

I don't think the changes are innately terrible but they set the range for acquisition too long, and I'm saying this from Irelia's point of view. That may sound really weird but if the range is set fairly short then Irelia gets the tenacity when she dives into the enemy team because all or most of the enemies are in her range but her carries should be out of it.

If the range was around 750 and the numbers weren't just worse in every possible scenario except 2v1s after level 6 then it would be an OK change. I think the range should be reduced and the tenacity should be up about 5-10% at all ranks as a trade off for it being harder to access.

Irelia BotJul 27, 20165 votes

{quoted}

I don't think the changes are innately terrible but they set the range for acquisition too long, and I'm saying this from Irelia's point of view. That may sound really weird but if the range is set fairly short then Irelia gets the tenacity when she dives into the enemy team because all or most of the enemies are in her range but her carries should be out of it.

If the range was around 750 and the numbers weren't just worse in every possible scenario except 2v1s after level 6 then it would be an OK change. I think the range should be reduced and the tenacity should be up about 5-10% at all ranks as a trade off for it being harder to access.

I considered that but then realized that if you are diving in to the enemy team with no one near you as backup you are screwed anyways unless way ahead of everyone.

Akali is SO HOTJul 27, 20165 votes

She still has a pretty good winrate and a high pickrate so I wasn't surprised when I saw more nerfs on PBE but this change just seems really random and doesn't make much sense to me

ArakadiaJul 27, 20164 votes

Brought you back to 1 because this is a good post.

hi hi its zy zyJul 27, 20164 votes

Good riddance tbh

Irelia BotJul 27, 20164 votes

{quoted}

Good riddance tbh

may they make MF ult like it was in season 2.

KingnewgameplusJul 27, 20161 votes

I didn't play during s2, so joke

-Head

LankPantsJul 27, 20163 votes

In most scenarios bullet time was so bad that even if you were hitting 5 people with it you could still question if you'd be dealing more damage by just AAing one person.

Slamurai JackJul 27, 20164 votes

Let's face it: In an even fight, Irelia doesn't need a passive. This change is to solidify her role as a backline diver rather than just giving her a bunch of all purpose tenacity just because.

Irelia BotJul 27, 201610 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6yMNjYwn,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2016-07-27T03:51:07.640+0000)

Let's face it: In an even fight, Irelia doesn't need a passive. This change is to solidify her role as a backline diver rather than just giving her a bunch of all purpose tenacity just because.

And in an even team fight 5v5 she now effectively does not have a noticeable passive.

Some nerfs are understandable but this one is likely going to hit the experienced Irelia players the hardest.

BroreliaJul 27, 20163 votes

Rito PLS!!!!

Axe2HandleJul 27, 20163 votes

Just read the PBE notes. I'd rather have a reworked passive on her than this nerfed to hell passive. 0%....really RIOT? thats just garbage.

Meep ManJul 27, 20163 votes

To be honest, her Passive makes her really hard to balance, so this change helps make it easier to balance Irelia since she won't just passively have 40% Tenacity in team fights anymore.

Sire HippingtonJul 27, 20167 votes

actually, it is the one thong that makes her somewhat balanceable. Fighter type champs like Irelia usually have heavy balance issues because 'melee ranged singletarget sustained damage' is a pattern that generally sucks in teamfights, mostly because of peeling, so CC. As a result, most fighters are either insane gods 1v1 that are ok in teamfights, or they are good 1v1 and horrible in teamfights unless fed. Her passive enables her teamfighting without impacting the 1v1. It allows her to overcome the biggest issue in teamfights for fighters without directly negateing it(even withtenacity, CC still is nasty as irelia, especially all the kock-ups that just don't give a fuck), allolwing her to be decent in teamfights without neccesarily beeing broken 1v1. Ireally has alot flaws, no doubt about that, but they don't come from her passive.

Linna ExcelJul 27, 20163 votes

This is one of those changes that will actually have a major impact on the feel of playing Irelia since CC will be a bigger effect in team fights.

I said this in another thread, but I think rito is trying to slow get rid of tenacity and I think that they are also trying to do one of those little nerfs that will add up into an overnerf later on.

SlashStrikerJul 27, 20163 votes

her 2 seconds stun is really irritating but i guess it irritates only me

superfire444Jul 27, 20161 votes

Irritates me too

RalanrJul 27, 20161 votes

It's why makes me tilt honestly.

SasogwaJul 27, 20162 votes

I'm not even a Irelia player, I even dislike playing against Irelia most of the times, but this is absolutely stupid. Please more bias to protect your almighty ad carries rito ? Sickening. In all places you could hit Irelia (if she even deserves to be hit, which I don't really think she does), you hurt her tenacity and ability to do something in teamfights?

Riot, do you actually want bruisers to afk splitpush top lane literally all game?

IAMS4T4NJul 27, 20162 votes

good riddance. its a cancer passive that makes her extremely hard to peel considering shes practically immune to cc. you shouldnt be facetanking everything and taking all the cc for your adc while one shotting theirs.

but "muh melee champ with everything in her kit"

KanlarJul 27, 20162 votes

It makes more sense design wise and lore wise, she's a champion designed to show greatest strength when put on the weaker side. Her "equilibrium" stuns when her health is lower than her enemy and i guess riot expanded that idea to her passive. When shes outnumbered, she gets the strongest tenacity. Evenly matched and she shows just 10%. But outnumber your opponents and irelia no longer has her tenacity since she gains advantage in numbers instead.

Blue Moon WolfJul 27, 20161 votes

I'd be interested in knowing what they hope to accomplish with these changes as well. Irelia isn't a champ I use often, but her passive has always been a lot like Wukongs in the sense that it made her more effective in team fights rather than against single opponents, not just when outnumbered (and really this passive would be more for escaping since fighting outnumbered is normally a bad idea). If I had to guess, I'd say they are just testing some things on her like they did with Riven and that Edge system, but that's just me. Who knows what they are thinking.

WoonStruckJul 27, 20162 votes

But this change is so absurdly stupid, rather than reverting Q damage buff or re-evaluating or Irelia's base AD, that Riot's likely to do it.

If they do, I am absolutely done with the garbage balancing of this game.

"Irelia's damage is too frontloaded due to massive TF buff and significant buff to her Q? Let's remove her passive! That'll make her a better champion, design-wise! We always wanted another Talon!"

I don't usually call out the balance team in such harsh ways, but for fuck's sake, how terrible at your job do you have to be to throw these changes on the PBE rather than adjusting what's made her broken in the first place?

RalanrJul 27, 20161 votes

Because TF effects more than her. As for the Q damage, I'm not sure why they didn't revert it after making TF even more of a core item on her.

WoonStruckJul 27, 20161 votes

They could have even lowered her AD/level to dial back her TF spike and general Q damage.

They already nerfed her ult CD to mitigate its powerspike as well.

CerealBoxOfDoomJul 27, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6yMNjYwn,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-07-27T00:48:43.198+0000)

All i can figure from them is "split pusher" but there are far better options for split pushing then Irelia.

Is the goal to make Irelia have basically no passive in team fights unless her team is already down a person?

This is one of those changes that will actually have a major impact on the feel of playing Irelia since CC will be a bigger effect in team fights.

EDIT: This can also likely be used to show if irelia has a ally hiding in a bush please reconsider this change for this reason alone. It is the same issue as the old fiddle passive giving his hiding in a bush away.

I think irelia can already tell if there is an enemy hiding in a bush unless they nerfed that already
irelia is the prototype assassin anyways, more than likely this is an experiment
how often is irelia really with her team intending to abuse cc reduction, if ignoring CC is the "feel" of irelia you have strange tastes

But I'm hoping this is an iterative thing. Irelia needs some changes and I'd prefer if she stuck with the semi-tanky melee carry deal.