The one item that feels forever to build unless you snowball so hard is

4NoxiousHours·Dec 19, 2015·79 votes·3,869 views

55 Comments

math crabDec 20, 201526 votes

the saddest thing is that you never want to buy it first, so even snowballing lane rarely helps sad hat

BonipherusDec 21, 20151 votes

Preach. I see pros buying this first or second item and I just die a little more each time.

YrzenDec 21, 20151 votes

One exception. Veigar

Even then he usually wants to get tear/chalice/forbidden idol and boots before building it.

A Miss FortuneDec 21, 20151 votes

Why tear on Veigar, isn't he a burst Mage lol?

YrzenDec 22, 20151 votes

Seraph's Embrace gives the second most AP in the game behind Rabadon's. The situational protection the shield provides isn't just for mages that need survivability, and can help Veigar survive should someone jump on him, whether or whether not his abilities are on cooldown.

The same argument could be made against Athene's, since it has less than half the AP Seraph's does.

SirHeavyScrotumDec 20, 201512 votes

Psch, have you ever tried building item 3022 ? Even after they reworked it's itemization it still has the same problem: takes way too long to build, has pretty shitter components to hold onto in the mean time (not to mention it builds out of too many components and crowds up your inventory), and doesn't provide you enough once you get it to make it feel worth it. At least when you get a Deeps Cap you actually feel your power spike for all your hard work building it.

Ethereal311Dec 20, 20155 votes

As someone who builds FM quite a bit, the new item 3052 works so well as an intermediate item that FM is now potentially viable since you get the 40 AD outright and only have to wait for 1025g compared to 1400g. It feels so good now, especially since it's only 3.1k. FM is situational but can work really damn well on a lot of ranged ADCs who aren't working around crikey crits (Kog and Trist are the main two I've been experimenting on with good success).

VikíngDec 20, 20151 votes

I love the new Jaurim's Fist.

Axis the DragonDec 20, 20153 votes

I've had some success with it on Gnar, as well. The added slow on auto makes kiting in mini form a lot easier (on top of the usual Black Cleaver speed boost + Hyper's speed boost, it makes him nigh untouchable against a lot of melees). In Mega form he becomes an unescapable brute if you don't have Flash. Plus it's an all around good HP + Damage item that pairs well with Cleaver.

UrPalAlDec 20, 20157 votes

item 3042

Yeah, good luck stacking that when the game ends at 20 min.

SH AzykanDec 20, 20155 votes

easier to stack than a seraphs in most cases tbh

I Miss CannonDec 20, 20154 votes

WHAT?THE?F-?

UrPalAlDec 21, 20151 votes

My reaction.

TwinkieProDec 20, 20154 votes

Seraph's is 8 per cast, whereas manamune is 4, but stacks on autos. spells can be cast anytime, but you can only auto enemies. I still see seraphs as easier.

UrPalAlDec 21, 20153 votes

Seraphs stacks WAY fucking faster since it's 8 per cast, and if you can't keep up with it, your champion probably shouldn't be building it in the first place.

SH AzykanDec 21, 20151 votes

usually if you are building a seraphs you have to leave it as a tear longer, Manamune is 2400 gold and an archangels is 3100 so you start efficiently stacking the manamune way faster. And in a lot of cases, you actually finish another item entirely before upgrading your tear to Archangels; whereas champs who build a manamune almost always rush it.

UrPalAlDec 21, 20151 votes

The thing is, when you build tear on someone like Jayce for example, you also need to build other items on top of just tear, like say some resistances, or start building essence. In fact I see that most of the time people like Ezrealz, Jayce, or Urgot don't always get it first because they wouldn:'t really be stacking it that much faster with auto attacks. All 3 of them have the ability to stack faster with abilities than the tear cycle lasts, and none of them have to worry too much about mana by the time they get Manamune. In fact, you'll see the item isn't upgraded until after a certain point where it becomes mana efficient.

On AP champs, you should be buying Seraphs on champions who can use abilities constantly for low mana costs. Think oriana for example, you just move the ball around, this isn't even the most efficient example, yet I find it very easy to stack up Seraphs and not destroy my mana, again, if your champion cannot keep up with Seraphs, then your champion ISN'T supposed to be building it in the first place.

Also keep in mind that there are only really 3, maybe 4 champions that build Manamune constantly: Jayce, Ezreal, Urgot, and Varus.

Yxion the YordleDec 19, 20155 votes

item 3031 item 3072 item 3078 item 3508

UB3R 1337 H4XDec 20, 201526 votes

T-Force not really as the post said it FEELS like forever where I find T-force escapes this niche by having 3 smaller pieces that leave only a small cost left to cover rather than IE where you get all the items and then you need to go farm another 1k

The Yetii RiderDec 21, 20152 votes

{quoted}

T-Force not really as the post said it FEELS like forever where I find T-force escapes this niche by having 3 smaller pieces that leave only a small cost left to cover rather than IE where you get all the items and then you need to go farm another 1k

Additionally Trinity Force's components have a wide variety of stats and passives, while Rabadon's components (by necessity of the finished product) give you NOTHING but AP.

TotalJerkDec 20, 20152 votes

All of those have FAR better build paths.

UB3R 1337 H4XDec 21, 20151 votes

Except maybe IE

J EevoDec 20, 20154 votes

item 3157 Against a zed mid when you're something immobile that dies to his ult without zhonya... Oh but he's fine because you just need one item to counter him... and said item you'll get after about 20 minutes, while being manastarved because you had to skip manaregeneration that you usually get.

SH AzykanDec 21, 20151 votes

go double or even triple dorans into zhonya, it is way more than enough mana sustain while you are still in lane phase, and gives some hp to keep you alive in an all in better.

J EevoDec 21, 20151 votes

I love my tear but considering how fast games are now that might actually be a good idea, thanks :)

Meep ManDec 20, 20153 votes

Honestly, Rabadon's should build out of another Amplifying Tomb or Blasting Wand to make it less of a pain since by default it gives 162 ability power on it's own.

BeanwaterDec 20, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6vEEII6W,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-12-20T04:06:41.240+0000)

Honestly, Rabadon's should build out of another Amplifying Tomb or Blasting Wand to make it less of a pain since by default it gives 162 ability power on it's own.

No please part of the issue imo is that it has 3 components and a significant combine cost. Even though amp tome is super cheap, if you buy that and combine at once it's 1700g from already having bought NLR and blasting wand.

The JarekatDec 20, 20152 votes

That's what I have found difficult - the three items to build it. I tend to build rabadons mid-late game so often I don't have enough slots for each individual item meaning I gotta have to almost buy it outright

GrReaper96Dec 20, 20153 votes

At least majority people still get it after the nerfs Unlike item 3157

TheorcheroDec 20, 201534 votes

{quoted}

At least majority people still get it after the nerfs Unlike

I see zhonya's every game.

What are you smoking? It's still a great item.

GrReaper96Dec 20, 20154 votes

Well after the 3 nerfs it hit zhonyas (ap armour price) has become very gold inefficient. For me i only see it if the games last 45 min+ because nowdays most ap mids rush item 3092 item 3165 item 3285 . Even then if the games last that long.

BiffoloDec 20, 201521 votes

An item with a top 2 active in the entire game shouldn't be gold efficient.

GrReaper96Dec 20, 20151 votes

Agreed. Even before this it wasnt gold efficient. The point is that it takes too long to get it with too little stats besides the active. It greatly slows down a mages offensive capabilities. Of course people that synchronize with it well Kennen Diana Lissandra Karthus Swain are exceptions

BiffoloDec 20, 201518 votes

It slows the offensive capabilities because it's a defensive item.

CatastropDec 20, 20153 votes

I know right, I've been hearing this garbage about how no one is buying it. Seriously, it's stasis, just because it's expensive doesn't make it useless.

Heckin SupportDec 20, 20153 votes

If you don't use zonyas then you don't understand the fact of how good it is. Just sucks how much more gold you need in order to get to it. Laning against zed is more tedious now because you have to wait so long to get it.

BeldairDec 20, 20153 votes

As a Galio Support player, i say that Spirit Visage takes forever. I love the item but good lord is it hard for a support to build.

Supreme Senpai69Dec 20, 20151 votes

As a Zac Jungle I have to agree. I'll get my jungling items quickly with cinderhulk, then it takes FOREVER to get Spirit Visage. By the time I can buy it I don't really need it and go straight to Warmog's.

BeldairDec 20, 20151 votes

Exactly. Only reason i build Spirit Visagr is because of the MR which helps Galio thanks to his passive.

10TicklerDec 21, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Exactly. Only reason i build Spirit Visagr is because of the MR which helps Galio thanks to his passive.

Honestly, SV has EVERY stat that Galio needs, EXCEPT Mana/Mana Regen.

HP for Big Tank Plays CDR for More Q+E+R The passive, which Synergizes SO well with his W and his Passive which synergizes with the MR

LovelleDec 20, 20153 votes

item 3022 item 3748

You either rush them or you build them after like 3 items. You still probably won't finish them before the game ends.

UrPalAlDec 21, 20151 votes

This.

The SoulforgedDec 20, 20152 votes

item 3027

shadecrapperDec 20, 20152 votes

3800 to build and the parts are pretty expensive too.

SolaxoDec 20, 20152 votes

For me it's item 3071 the final combination cost is too damn high

UrPalAlDec 21, 20151 votes

True.

Chuck CharlesDec 20, 20152 votes

it is not meant to be bought early. deathcap is not meant to be a snowballing item. it is an AP multiplier. If it is as cheap as before you simply rush it because AP wise it is the most efficient. before you could buy a deathcap and get roughly 160 ap for 3300 ish gold. (not sure on the old amount but it was cheaper for sure)

No other item even came close to the raw AP. but now its 160 ap for 3800 gold where you can close to that same amount of AP with another item and a component while getting a finished item that gives you something besides raw ap.

it is clear that riot intends death cap to be at earliest a 2nd buy...and more likely is cost efficient as a 3rd buy. the more AP you have, the more cost efficient the item is. at 3800 gold, it is simply not efficient to rush, which is a good thing.

If you want early game burst, you can Luden's into a blasting wand and while it costs a bit more than the Dcap you have a similar amount of AP and more burst cuz of the Luden's.

you can also get a mejai's if you are truly snowballing...because that item stacks insanely fast now.

GigglingAngelDec 20, 20152 votes

item 3041 Cause everyone knows that it's not actually fully built until you got all the stacks.