Creepblock still terrible

FireDrizzle·Jan 15, 2018·37 votes·2,673 views

Something has to be done about creep block, even the slowest skillshots can become guranted hits which is dirty when they are balanced around being dodgable. And no I cant avoid minion block playing a melee champ, not unless its "melee" like . Minions on their own can cc you longer than most abilities and you end up dying becasue you didnt flash the moment your champ got caught in a minion.

I made a thread stating minion block is the longest lasting cc and it was deleted and i was told to post in memes and games. But that wasnt a meme, its true.

Sometimes you have to hold back and not towerdive because you dont know if the minions will do this: https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6110/6329491843_5be1533a9f_b.jpg

Also creep agro is fucked and minions can ignore you or chase you worse than the tax man.

Bad champion pathing is another exacerbater.

41 Comments

xelakerJan 15, 20189 votes

Riot is just too laz...errr. There is no problem, working as intended.

PaladinNOJan 16, 20183 votes

"It's not a bug, it's a feature!"

General Esdeath Jan 15, 20189 votes

Small indie company

SweedishGunnerJan 16, 20181 votes

Only $1.6 Billion in 2015, small indie company though. Kappa.

Pandemic PunchJan 15, 20186 votes

It is an intended part of the game. There are special summoner spells/abilities designed around walking through them as well. If you get trapped in minions that often then you need to work on your positioning.

T4underboltJan 16, 20181 votes

Sorry but when my champ gets blocked between 2 minions tgat have huge visible gap between them and me and my teammate cant pas through without stuttering and blocking, but suddenly few seconds later enemy cho who is 20 times larger goes through no problem and chases us down I call this a problem. Minion block got screwed at some point when new map was introduced. Riot tried to fixed it but were too lazy, reverted the fix that even made it worse and didnt fix it at all.

JobriqJan 15, 20186 votes

Shoulda photoshopped minions onto the cops' heads

PaladinNOJan 16, 20181 votes

What do you mean? I thought they were minions. :O

Arcane Blue BoiJan 16, 20184 votes

I like how you only get aggro'd if you basic attack or proc onhit efects Meanwhile pantheon goes to the other side of the lane to hit a Q and minions be like ''IN THE NAME OF JUST---oh wait, that wasnt a basic attack, you are free to pass sir!''

revliledpembrokeJan 16, 20182 votes

Minions go after mages if they hit the enemy with a spell, so I don't see why Pantheon SHOULD be any different.

Doesn't mean he isn't a whole other kettle of fish, he SHOULDN'T be.

MeriipuJan 16, 20184 votes

{quoted}

Minions go after mages if they hit the enemy with a spell, so I don't see why Pantheon SHOULD be any different.

they dont though

LordGeovanniJan 17, 20181 votes

they dont thats why mages bully assassins in the early game and assassins bully fighters

Troll for TrumpJan 16, 20181 votes

That's why they're changing it in I think 8.2.

Arcane Blue BoiJan 16, 20181 votes

They are?? it was about time

TrollmanshipJan 16, 20184 votes

Creep block is just another way for Riot to dick over melee champions.

sycaraJan 15, 20183 votes

I do agree with you to some degree, but creep block doesn't get really bad that often. What has been happening to me lately multiple times however is that, while I was standing in the brush near to the enemy Tier 1 in the Bottom Lane without the enemy having vision of that brush and me not triggering anything that would pull minion aggro towards me, minions would just run straight into the brush and focus me for no reason while just ignoring my own minions. I get really confused when this happens, and it happens more and more often.

Built to TyltJan 15, 20182 votes

I noticed that too, when I still played. Another reason to stop until they straighten shit, out. It's a free ward for enemy.

My absolute favorite is when I'm just walking down/in lane and I am literally stuck on/in the minions and can't get out for several seconds.

SancreJan 15, 20182 votes

Minions can smell your fear.

Hard facts aside, Are you sure that you didn't have any enemy ward inside that bush, or used some auto or skill while inside it before the minions went after you?

Dead flag bluesJan 16, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I do agree with you to some degree, but creep block doesn't get really bad that often. What has been happening to me lately multiple times however is that, while I was standing in the brush near to the enemy Tier 1 in the Bottom Lane without the enemy having vision of that brush and me not triggering anything that would pull minion aggro towards me, minions would just run straight into the brush and focus me for no reason while just ignoring my own minions. I get really confused when this happens, and it happens more and more often.

Maybe there was a ward, and enemies were baiting you

SelegunJan 15, 20182 votes

It's just a skill to learn. Knowing how and why minions react how they do is a part of the game players need to practice with.

What champs do you play that you have the most trouble with minions?

FireDrizzleJan 15, 201811 votes

"Knowing how and why minions react how they do is a part of the game players need to practice with. " Minion behaviour can be quite random, like as I said sometimes they pursue someone endlessly or give up the chase quickly. And that cna make a difference in the first few levels when minions really hurt.

{quoted} What champs do you play that you have the most trouble with minions?

Tanks or juggernauts, you have to farm with melee autoattacks and you have an obscenely big hitbox.

SelegunJan 15, 20182 votes

Sounds like you are conserving your mana/resource a bit. If you want to practice learning the wave jump into practice tool and find how many attacks it takes to bring a minion into kill range with an ability. Once there look to hit and kill as many minions as you can plus the enemy as your spells won't draw aggro from the minions. Don't try to basic attack your enemy early game unless you can quickly step into a bush. If minions can't see you they lose interest so use that to your advantage.

That larger hit box can also be paired with longer attack range. Most Juggernaughts have the reach to stand behind minions to attack enemy minions.

CatastrophicJan 16, 20182 votes

exacerbate

What's that mean?

SSJTribeJan 16, 20182 votes

it means "to take a problem and make it worse"

the OP didn't really use it correctly though, you'd want to say something like

"Bad champion pathing exacerbates this issue."

FireDrizzleJan 16, 20181 votes

{quoted}

the OP didn't really use it correctly though, you'd want to say something like

"Bad champion pathing exacerbates this issue."

I didnt "use" that word, I used exacerbator, albeit mispelled.

DarkKatalystJan 16, 20182 votes

If I remember correctly, Riot said that fixing something like minion blocking requires digging deep into League's code... but there's too much spaghetti down there to handle. Too much can go wrong.

"Realistically" they would have to rewrite everything. They say the opportunity cost is too immense, and so they would rather work on developing new features that have greater benefits.

Here's some info that they posted when they last tried fixing the problem: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/EWLnAleN-follow-up-pathing-aka-minion-blocking-update

ImpossibleGTJan 16, 20181 votes

Or, God forbid, they could just remove minion block entirely. It's an irritating and unnecessary "feature" held-over from the olden days of DotA. Riot made League and cleverly removed a lot of the more obtuse parts of DotA, like minion denying, to make it the game more accessible to people unfamiliar with the genre. Yet for some reason minion block has managed to stay in the game for... what like 8 years now or something? And I honestly cannot fathom why.

It is a pretty fundamental rule of design that everything should serve a purpose. You should have a good reason for every decision when making a game. But what purpose does minion block serve? There's absolutely minimal skill to it; either you randomly get caught or you don't. It's frustrating because it is extremely unclear where or how you're getting caught until you're already 2 seconds into your minion CC.

Lets compare minion block to a mechanic that was removed for a similar feel bad reason; dodge. When Riot removed dodge from the game entirely, the reasoning was that trades shouldn't be decided by RNG and because outplaying your opponent only to watch them get away with 10 hp because they dodged your flash-auto. Dodge served an actual purpose (defense stat strong against heavy auto attackers) and yet Riot removed it basically without a second thought because of the randomness and the feelbadman moments it created. Minion block serves no purpose (punish melee characters harder than they already are? wut?) and is equally as random. Why on earth is it still in the game? Just remove it entirely and the game will be better for it.

DarkKatalystJan 16, 20181 votes

Are you talking about ignoring unit collision? The reason why that won't be removed is because of balance. Ignoring collision with minions would make it much easier to avoid skill shots that minions can block. So for example, if you are in front of a minion, you can pass right over it instead of going around to avoid attacks. The few fractions of a second saved is enough to make a difference. Overall, I think more problems would be created than fixed. It's pretty rare in the first place that minion blocking occurs unfairly.

Teridax68Jan 16, 20181 votes

I agree, I find creep block to be irritating, not simply because it messes up the pathing of a great deal many champions (especially in top lane), but because that pathing often feels buggy, accidental or otherwise poorly predictable. I would like to see it gone completely, and while that request is often answered by the claim that creep block is used to balance certain champions (which ones are never specifically cited, though), I also personally don't think it should ever be a valid strategy to balance a champion by making them feel clunkier or buggier. As a side note, this is also why I'm not a fan of the recent Zoe nerf to her Q updating, because it works exactly on that principle. In this particular respect, if removing creep block were to make specific champions shoot up to excessive win rates, then I think balancing them directly as a result of that would create a much healthier situation overall. If champions were to lose counterplay entirely due to creep block, then the real problem is likely that those champions are just unhealthy to start with, and so updating their gameplay would be necessary anyway.

God vs RitoJan 16, 20181 votes

Honestly I don't really understand why people complain about creep block as if it was the main problem in LOL. I do agree with what you say but honestly don't you think what you said for creep blocking is actually true for :

Tanks items being to strong ( nearly always cdr, and always more stats than offensive items, also most of the time cheaper)

Defensive stats being too strong as in armor and mr reduces dmgs a lot( as in ez to have 70% reduced dmgs...)

Jungle being way too easy, junglers heals in jungle and have free will to do as many ganks as they want without being punished if a gank fails( to sum up jungle resources too op)

Champions lack dmgs( which make the laning phase in 1v1 non punitive, if you play safe u can never die at most u miss a bit of cs)

System of elo requires too much games to reach ur actual elo. + mmr that changes instead of same amount of point every time.

The game snowballs too hard.

Now all i am saying here is that: if creep block is really an issue for you well riot does not give two sheit about that cause they have a game which makes them earn money and unless you have economical shares in riot( like tensen) then you can just forget it.

btw i'm not english so sry for the poor language.

Teridax68Jan 16, 20181 votes

I mean, that's fair, but then again that doesn't mean that all issues should be abandoned in favor of just one. Riot does tend to focus on specific issues at a time, but they don't drop everything in a single patch just to tweak one champion or item, for example. I agree that creep block isn't the end of the world, and that often criticism of any one particular issue gets framed as such on here, but I still think it's one of the many issues worth bringing to Riot's attention, particularly since it's been an ongoing problem for years.

Coldblooooded Jan 16, 20181 votes

My favourite is when a minion seems to tether itself to you, following/blocking at the same time :P

Reaper SorakaJan 16, 20181 votes

I remember running into lane last night while my adc was fighting their adc/jungle. I was almost there, I was just outside our tower. .... any second I should be there. Why am I standing completely still...did I disconnect? oh, minions blocked me into a wall. coding isn't smart enough to make me path around this creep wall. At least he didn't need me.

SmyxieJan 16, 20181 votes

Try it as Urgot Urgot .. sometimes you can't even push the turret cause creeps are keeping you outside :D ....happens me a lot! I mean it is so annoying .. or I am planning to poke but..when I see how minions block me twice in a row I am gonna give up and wait for another chance to poke -_- such lovely creatures those minions <3 [sg-shisa]

SujirenJan 16, 20181 votes

I remmeber taking a blast plant near red buff on red side of the map.. And getting stuck at double golems, Urgot is just too fat.

SmyxieJan 17, 20181 votes

Exactly! His texture is just too big!..you can see it when you are trying to ''push'' minions they completely change their way or even they stuck in front of you :D.. Or one time I flashed trough wall and I could not get out of those golems -_- so I just had to use E ..

GramikLolFeb 7, 20181 votes

Man, I have to agree with you, main Urgot and that creep block is insane, cant even farm sometimes cause they make ''wall'' against me .. happened that I bugged one creep for almost 1 minute that he could not go :D Urgot [zombie-brand-facepalm]

BazzlieJan 16, 20181 votes

I have noticed that creep block seems to be happening more and more often. I haven't been really angered by it, but it's something to take note of.

Total EclipseJan 17, 20181 votes

I agree. Creepblock has been a problem since the new rift hit.... sigh, I remember the good ol days on the old rift. The map felt more spacious when it wasnt--- cuz leauge of lego minions became a thing.

LordGeovanniJan 17, 20181 votes

We are the minions, don't you dare call us creeps 'Respect the Guild.'