Fervor of Battle Inconsistencies and a Quest to Discover Its Interactions (HELP PLZ)

ofart··9 votes·4,319 views
Fervor of Battle (Season 2016 Mastery)

Twitch's W does damage with his venom but offers 0 stacks of Fervor of Battle. I assume this is because his passive doesn't offer any stacks for Fervor of Fattle. However, the wiki suggests it should since he is still doing damage. Fervor of Battle is supposed to give a stack on each increment of damage. For example, I assume it's intended for Runaan's to give 3 stacks if it hits 3 champions. Likewise, Twitch's ult. will give a stack per champion hit.

If you run Fervor of Battle on Brand and use an ability, it will grant an immediate 2 stacks and then add another 2 from the passive damage. Why would Brand's passive grant additional stacks while Twitch's does not? As a side note, I don't think Sorcery is providing "increased ability or spell damage" for Twitch's W either so at least that's consistent and probably means that Brand wouldn't get the increase on his passive either. Although, it does still beg the question as to why Brand's passive provides stacks of Fervor but Twitch's doesn't.

From the wiki: You gain stacks of Fervor for 6 seconds whenever you damage an enemy champion, stacking up to 8 stacks, based on the type: 1 stack for ranged basic attacks (on-hit). 2 stacks for melee basic attacks (on-hit). 2 stacks for ability damage (2 second cooldown). [doesn't matter how many champions are hit]

Ashe also has weird issues with Fervor of Battle. Her Q is an ability but it only grants a single stack. It would actually make sense for it to grant either 2 stacks as an ability with a CD OR 5 stacks since she is autoing 5x in each flurry. Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Q give her 5 stacks of Black Cleaver? If that is the case, why would it act any differently for Fervor?

Another confusing one is Ezreal's Q interaction with Fervor of Battle. It benefits from Sorcery's "increased ability and spell damage" but it is treated as a ranged auto attack rather than an ability for Fervor of Battle. It also applies Sheen as if it's an auto-attack followed by a spell but buying Sheen doesn't provide any additional stacks per Q. However, if you have IBG and hit something with Q, it now grants 2 stacks of Fervor of Battle. I suppose the Icy AoE somehow interacts with it but I don't believe it grants additional Black Cleaver stacks on the primary target.

Unlike the others, Ezreal's interactions still make sense for the most part but aren not immediately intuitive and there is still a lack of consistency. Q is not a spell and doesn't Apply Liandry's, Rylai's etc. but it isn't exactly just an auto because it benefits from Sorcery's increased ability damage. If it counts as an ability for Sorcery, why would it not for Fervor of Battle?

I really want this game to make sense but many of the item interactions are just not logical or consistent. It's extremely annoying even for a veteran like me but probably 10x more annoying for a beginner trying to work on his builds and understand the game. It should all be clear and obvious how everything works and interacts. Unfortunately, masteries and their interactions are often vague and Riot doesn't provide a full list of interactions for everything. I'd appreciate that much more than lore or nearly anything else. Helping us understand how things work would also help resolve balance issues before they become a problem since weird interactions would be used immediately allowing quick fixes way before some Reddit thread with 1000 comments.

**Stuff I wasn't able to test but would really like to know: ** Does Twitch's ult. apply Fervor of Battle's full damage to each champion hit? I'd assume yes given it applies BoRK but it's hard to see visually. Moreover, I understand that Twitch's ult. can hit a target and then a Runaan's side bolt can as well. Would Fervor of Battle or other on-hits apply twice in this scenario? I really want to know this but it's so hard to see.

Does Fervor of Battle apply its damage to Runaan's side bolts? It's an on-hit so it would make sense for it to. If so, does it apply the FULL damage from Fervor of Battle on side bolts or is it reduced despite being an on-hit? Reducing an on-hit damage on side bolts wouldn't be consistent with the way on-hits are supposed to work (BoRK, Wit's etc.) and the item's description. However, even at full stacks, the side bolt damage was much lower than I'd have expected if Fervor of Battle applied correctly.

Another thing I want to test but wasn't able to is how it interacts with Sated Devourer. I'd expect it to double the Fervor of Battle damage and for it to apply the double damage to each Runaan's side bolt. Sated also reduces the count on abilities such as Xin's Three Talon Strike or Kench's passive so would it stack Fervor faster too as one would expect? I'd love clarification on this.

Would Fervor of Battle grant any additional stacks of Black Cleaver? My guess is no since BoRK's passive doesn't but perhaps someone has tested this.

Does Runaan's +15 on hit apply to its own side-bolts and would this be doubled with Sated Devourer for everything? Based on the description, the answer should be yes for both but the side bolt damage appeared lower than expected.

BTW: Just like Fervor of Battle, Runaan's itself doesn't feel consistent at all. Sometimes you'll have targets right next to each other and it'll refuse to fire side bolts. This applies to both champions and minions. It seems to fire side bolts more often when you're at closer range even though the targets have the same spacing between each other so it shouldn't have mattered. I know others have reported about it being bugged but it is quite frustrating.

For anyone Curious, Graves' autos provide a maximum of 1 stack regardless of how many pellets hit a target.

Lastly, I found that because Azir's soldiers become his auto attack, they grant stacks of Fervor of Battle. I think this is interesting but likely intended since it is supposed to apply on autos.

15 Comments

El Condor Pasa4 votes

Fervor of battle seems to apply as an on-hit effect and as a spell effect. Brand's passive applies spell effects so it grants stacks whenever its off cooldown. Twitch's passive is an on-hit effect and on-hit effects don't apply additional on-hit effects on top of each other so it doesn't grant stacks.

You should be looking at how it's being applied instead of classifying what things are then determining whether it should/shouldn't apply.

ofart2 votes

At least read the wiki link or mastery description because that's not true at all and never has been either. Abilities are supposed to give 2 stacks as well and do in almost all cases.

GetMariahCarried2 votes

{quoted}

At least read the wiki link or mastery description because that's not true at all and never has been either. Abilities are supposed to give 2 stacks as well and do in almost all cases.

... Let me sum up what was just said:

  • OP's claim: Fervor's description is not always true.
  • Fact: Fervor's description is almost always true.
  • Conclusion: OP's claim is not true.

http://orig07.deviantart.net/b58b/f/2013/224/5/c/facedesk_gif_by_katetls-d684dcx.gif

Sneakyy XD2 votes

{quoted}

Twitch's W does damage with his venom but offers 0 stacks of Fervor of Battle.

If you run Fervor of Battle on Brand and use an ability, it will grant an immediate 2 stacks and then add another 2 from the passive damage. Why would Brand's passive grant additional stacks while Twitch's does not?

From the wiki: You gain stacks of Fervor for 6 seconds whenever you damage an enemy champion, stacking up to 8 stacks, based on the type: 1 stack for ranged basic attacks (on-hit). 2 stacks for melee basic attacks (on-hit). 2 stacks for ability damage (2 second cooldown). [doesn't matter how many champions are hit]

Ashe also has weird issues with Fervor of Battle. Her Q is an ability but it only grants a single stack.

Another confusing one is Ezreal's Q interaction with Fervor of Battle.

Would Fervor of Battle grant any additional stacks of Black Cleaver?

For anyone Curious, Graves' autos provide a maximum of 1 stack regardless of how many pellets hit a target.

I took out some stuff because I don't know the answers to them, but I will answer what's left.

  • Twitch's W does nothing but apply his passive (and slow), which is an on-hit effect. On-hit effects are not abilities
  • Brand's passive is not an on-hit effect and does not apply on-hit effects. It is therefore an ability
  • The descriptions there, in the client, and in-game are a little off. When not stacking with abilities, the stacking of it is an on-attack effect. This means the stacks are granted for only auto-attacks, and will give just one stack (or one application of stacks) for each auto-attack
  • Ashe's Q is not an ability. It's unique, so I can't give it a classification, but know that it's not an ability. The Wiki states that her Q will apply on-attack effects five times, which means it should stack Fervor five times. If it truly isn't, then there is special coding with either her and Fervor or with her and other on-attack effects that are applied five times
  • As I said above, the stacking of Fervor is an on-attack effect. While it's true that Fervor also stacks with abilities, Ezreal's Q is not an ability. It is a basic attack. Do not confuse that with auto-attack, though. It should not be getting stacks with Frozen Fist
  • Black Cleaver does not proc off of on-hit effects
  • Correct, because he attacks only once
ofart1 votes

Twitch's W does nothing but apply his passive (and slow), which is an on-hit effect. On-hit effects are not abilities

How is it an exclusively on-hit effect when W can provide stacks too? On-hit would mean it is only something from auto-attacks.

Ashe's Q is not an ability. It's unique, so I can't give it a classification, but know that it's not an ability. The Wiki states that her Q will apply on-attack effects five times, which means it should stack Fervor five times. If it truly isn't, then there is special coding with either her and Fervor or with her and other on-attack effects that are applied five times

It definitely doesn't provide additional Fervor stacks. I tried this several times. It makes no sense to me either since Black Cleaver stacks are supposedly applied multiple times.

As I said above, the stacking of Fervor is an on-attack effect. While it's true that Fervor also stacks with abilities, Ezreal's Q is not an ability. It is a basic attack. Do not confuse that with auto-attack, though. It should not be getting stacks with Frozen Fist.

If Ezreal's Q is only an auto-attack, it should not benefit from Sorcery or apply Sheen directly. It functions like an auto-attack that is also an ability (but not a spell).

Sneakyy XD2 votes

{quoted}

How is it an exclusively on-hit effect when W can provide stacks too? On-hit would mean it is only something from auto-attacks.

It definitely doesn't provide additional Fervor stacks. I tried this several times. It makes no sense to me either since Black Cleaver stacks are applied multiple times.

If Ezreal's Q is only an auto-attack, it should not benefit from Sorcery or apply Sheen directly.

  • The W providing stacks is just what it does. The stacks aren't applied because of the slow (or damage if W did damage).
  • The extra arrows aren't on-hit effects, so Black Cleaver will apply
  • It's not an auto-attack. It's a basic attack. Sorcery is either bugged, or the tooltip is bad. Considering how many questions you and other people have about tooltips and mechanics, I'm going to go with the second one. As for Sheen, it's another bad tooltip. Spellblade doesn't activate after using an ability. It activates after casting.

Tooltips and clarity about mechanics in general is probably Riot's weakest suit.

atomicwit1 votes

If the W adds stacks and the stacks do damage, in a sense, W does damage since you didn't do anything else but use that ability. I see where you're coming from though.

For Ashe, do the Q-active side bolts with Runaan's also apply 5 stacks? I'm not sure if the side bolts get a flurry or not and how that works out.

I'd love to know if Fervor of Battle really works completely on side bolts too. That actually seems pretty strong since it goes up to 100+ damage on-hit.

AVL Prince1 votes

{quoted}

Black Cleaver does not proc off of on-hit effects

Black cleaver procs off of all instances of physical damage, period. For example, Darius's passive will apply four (five?) stacks, one for each tick of damage. Twitch's damage applies true damage, and therefore does not synergize with black cleaver's passive.

So if as you say, Twitch's passive (and therefore Darius's passive are onhit effects and not abilities, then onhit effects do affect cleaver and should therefore, theoretically, affect other items and interactions similarly.

Miraweave1 votes

It only stacks on basic attacks iirc.

ofart1 votes

Nice detailed conclusion with zero evidence and no questions answered.

Eeyore1 votes

Ability damage =/= abilities.

Ashe's Q and Ezreal's Q do not deal ability damage.

They aren't affected by Sorcery.

They count as a basic attack.

The effect is triggered "on-hit", which means it is only applied one by Ashe ('cause her Q only applies on-hit effects once).

Fervor of Battle is happening exactly as specified in almost all circumstances (there's a few oddities such as Kayle's E which gives her on-hit ability damage). The issue is that you do not know the difference between "ability damage" and an ability.

ofart1 votes

Have you tested Ezreal's Q with Sorcery or are you just going by the tooltip and assuming this game's "rules" are actually consistent and make sense? I did try it at the start of preseason and it worked with his Q.

Eeyore1 votes

It is easier to assume the rules make sense and measure the exceptions. Fervor of Battle works as expected assuming you assume the rules are consistent.

I cannot measure a 2% increase in damage before or after resistances. There is some disprepancy between the expected and the actual, but this could be down to a rounding error - but isn't 2% in either case. Versus minions (which have no armor), I was dealing exactly what I excepted (factoring in the bonus damage from the Savagery mastery).

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