New Dragon is Imbalanced, but Can be Fixed

kcStranger··2 votes·1,467 views

This post concerns the new dragon buffs (particularly the +8% AD and AP), how and why they subtly warp and imbalance the game, and what we can do about this. A quick disclaimer is that this post is mostly theorycrafting, supplemented by some observations from watching the Intel Extreme Masters tournament, as I'm not a high-level player and the imbalance is not horrendously large.

The design intent of the new dragon seems fairly clear, as all the buffs are most effective when ahead/pushing. This is particularly obvious with the extra damage to structures, but also noticeable from the fact that the first dragon buff mainly affects offensive rather than defensive stats. Thus, Dragon (like Baron) is geared towards helping a team snowball a lead and push through for the win. This, in itself, is not necessarily a problem (depending on the game designers' priorities).

What is a problem, however, is that the AD/AP boost is a percentage rather than a flat bonus. This means that if your team can secure even a single dragon (which usually happens), all AD/AP items and stats become 8% more efficient. This effect is essentially equivalent to giving all champions 4 extra instances of the level-1 Archmage mastery, and four instances of an improved Warlord mastery (because it affects all AD, not just bonus AD). Clearly, some champions can make better use of this than others. Thus, all tanks and defense-oriented bruisers become subtly worse, and all offense- (or other AP-)oriented champs become subtly better. Moreover, it is a relatively common tactic to build extra defense when behind; this change makes that tactic significantly worse. If we allow the (admittedly suspect) assumption that the game/champions were balanced prior to patch 4.20, then the effects of the change are clear: defense-oriented champions/items are simply worse than offense- (or ability-)oriented champions/items (generally speaking), and players should be selecting their team comps so as to maximize their AD/AP.

Assuming we want to maintain a more balanced game, however, there are several solutions that I think are more or less palatable:

  1. Change the first Dragon bonus to a flat boost. This still places pressure on defensive champs, but that pressure doesn't amplify throughout the game, and item strengths remain what they always were.

  2. Change one of the other Dragon bonuses to percentage Armor/MR (and/or Health). Things would still be slightly biased towards whichever bonus comes first, but there wouldn't be a serious imbalance in a long game where both teams get dragons. Maybe we could replace the bonus damage to monsters/minions, since that one seems kind of lame to me.

  3. Reduce the percentage boost from the first dragon, but make it also apply to Armor/MR (and/or Health). By boosting a larger variety of stats, the balance could be maintained.

  4. Make the first Dragon buff the third or fourth instead. This delays the entire discussion until later in the game, at which point it seems to me like less of a bad thing to give the team that's ahead some extra punch to close things out.

And there's probably even more possibilities. Overall, it's clear that the design intent was to push offense over defense, but I just think they went a little too far.

24 Comments

FyshinaTux2 votes

I've already said that the Dragon buff is imbalanced, honestly, the bonus damage should come later in the rotation, not be the first buff.

Also, Baron gives minions WWWWWAAAAAAYYYYYYY too much tankiness. If a team is even slightly behind, they can't kill the minions AT ALL in a siege situation. If it's an early baron, even the team that is AHEAD can't kill the minions. So the only option at this point is to full on dive the team with Baron...

If you're behind, and your only option is to fight a team that's severely ahead... I'm reminded of a certain insect that had an issue not too dissimilar that caused nerfs for himself... Khazix

kcStranger1 votes

How would you feel about it if the Baron bonus scaled based on the number of nearby champions? For instance, perhaps the buff was just as large as it is now if you were up against five nearby baroned-up teammates, but got smaller if you managed to snipe someone, they split up, or someone wanted to stay in the back line?

FyshinaTux2 votes

Even then I'd think it was too strong...

I like the idea of it boosting up with each nearby baron-buffed team member, but not to the extent it is now... it's literally impossible to defend against unless your whole team is at full build.

Make Baron Buff stackable for each member of the team (5 nearby members gives minions 5x the buff), and make it so the 5 stack is slightly less than what it is now and it should be fine.

Doing this would also increase the "strategic diversity" by making players choose whether pushing with 5 would be optimal, or if they would rather split push with the 1-3-1 setup, or some other variant of [not all 5 in one lane].

kcStranger1 votes

I like the tie-in about strategic diversity. You're right, Riot should do exactly this. Start a post about it so I can upvote you :)

In fairness to Riot, they did state that they wanted Baron to be more of a game-ender (which they succeeded at), and it is still risky to take under many circumstances.

FyshinaTux1 votes

While it may be risky to take, it's FAR too much of a game ender as it is. I understand that it wasn't meant to be a massive siege/regen buff, but what it is now feels really toxic to play against, and is completely demoralizing whenever I find myself against it.

kcStranger1 votes

Maybe there's a way to check this, actually. Aggregate a bunch of data from Pro/Challenger games, and see the percentage of games that end after 0, 1, or 2+ barons. If there's a big spike at 1, it would back up what you're saying. If there's a lot of games going 2+, maybe it's not such a big deal.

Of course, I can't check this myself XD

Meep Man1 votes

Reduce the percentage boost from the first dragon, but make it also apply to Armor/MR (and/or Health). By boosting a larger variety of stats, the balance could be maintained.

I like this part without the first part. The current percentage isn't too strong and affecting. I can get the extra AD and AP from what the first one gives from masteries.

FyshinaTux2 votes

The idea is that once you get some items, that bonus is a HUGE advantage. If you're ahead, and you have that, you're going to snowball pretty easily, if you're behind and you have that, you can snowball back into the lead.

The issue is that you have to get it, and then deny the enemy from getting it. But whoever gets it first won't have any issues denying it from the enemy if they're half good at the game and know how to keep a timer (which the game does for you now).

Epilogue of Life1 votes

But this game NEEDS heavy snowballing. With the shield on second tower, and the increasing amount of peels/disengage/CC chains, the team with a lead NEEDS this bonus. Whats the point of picking anyone early game oriented if the enemy team can just pick five latergame raidbosses, sit in tower, farm it out, and shred your anus after 35 mins?

FyshinaTux1 votes

Honestly, seeing the same "early game champions" over and over in pro play is RRRRREEEEEAAAAALLLLLLLLLLYYYYY getting old. I was actually somewhat happy to see the "non-meta" picks like Poppy at IEM. I just wish the list of champions played was better.

Sadly, I don't think that is likely to happen until the items get reworked, expanded, and improved.

Epilogue of Life1 votes

But is the game really enjoyable as a champion who waits for 25 mins to become a contributing member? The idea of late gamers are just so stupid...no fun to play against, less fun to play as.

FyshinaTux2 votes

That, sir, is a matter of opinion. I feel like they add a needed element to the game. You don't simply sit there and do nothing but farm for 25 minutes, you apply psychological pressure to the enemy.

Have you ever seen an enemy team with Vayne and Nasus, and NOT thought "ok guys, we gotta end this quick"? Of course you haven't, because that's how you beat Vayne and Nasus, you end the game quickly.

This psychological pressure causes the enemy team to make mistakes which you can capitalize on and, depending on how severe and frequent the mistakes are, utilize to win the game early with those late game champions.

Just because people play late game champions, doesn't mean they're just going to farm farm farm for 40 minutes, but it also doesn't mean you can't beat them after 40 minutes either.

Epilogue of Life1 votes

I play this game to be aggressive and kill stuff, so I don't play late gamers, simple as that. I treat all games like GTA---I kill things for pressure relief, pussying and waiting for mistakes is not my idea of fun.

FyshinaTux1 votes

I never said it was your idea of fun, I'm just saying, not everyone finds the "late-gamers" to be boring. Add that to the fact that they add depth to the game, and there's no reason they should not exist.

Epilogue of Life1 votes

never saw depth in waiting things out.

FyshinaTux1 votes

Ok, then go play Street Fighter. All the characters there are "fast hitting" in comparison to LoL, there shouldn't be any 60 minutes games there, have fun there...

Just because YOU don't like a particular playstyle, doesn't mean it doesn't add depth to a game. Stop being selfishly oblivious.

Epilogue of Life1 votes

Fast hitting and not being passive is kinda not the same thing, is it? Kinda flawed argument.

FyshinaTux1 votes

I don't see your point. You said you don't like champions that just "sit back and farm" for x minutes. This means you like action and being aggressive.

Guess what, the fighting game genre is great at that. Go play other something else.

Epilogue of Life1 votes

Fast hitting is like attack speed or some shit...

FyshinaTux1 votes

it's official... you can't argue with stupid.

I'm out.

Epilogue of Life1 votes

wasn't enjoyable to talk to a pussy either.

kcStranger1 votes

Yeah, it all depends what your priorities are. I happen to think that having some snowballing around the dragon is good, but that the current version goes a little too far by putting a very impactful (and warping) buff on the first dragon. That's why one of my suggestions was simply to change buff 1 to buff 3/4 instead, so there was a little more room for counterplay early on. However, if I allow the point that the game needs heavy snowballing, then I agree with you that the new dragon does a good job. I also agree that giving a little love to early-game champions is perhaps welcome. Personally, I would rather see a system where consecutive dragons offer increasingly impactful buffs, rather than the current version that seems to all revolve around buffs 1 and 5.

Epilogue of Life1 votes

There should be more counterplay to people who marry their tower and wait for jungle ganks. Simply warding and backing off won't help you actually shut down these disgusting cowards, it only helps you not get shut down via sudden gangbang. The dragon buff means that if you don't contest your enemy then you fall off hard. This game really need to have more fights and less towerhugging. On a side note, the MS buff is HUGE to roam champions and the dmg to towers+creeps help splitpushers. The backdoor only Yi would prolly take the dmg to structure buff over the AD any day of the week.

kcStranger1 votes

This post is dead, but since I stumbled upon it for some random reason...

I now disagree with most of what I said. New dragon is awesome :)

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