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*This* is why you have a support

kcStranger··35 votes·4,523 views

I'll admit right up front that this is a bit of a rage post. Also, I'm a fairly low-level player (still just level 29). However, there is something that I understand that many of my teammates seem not to understand: why you have a support. This comes into play particularly strongly when your opponents have an unconventional "cheese" support (two of my recent games featured Teemo and Poppy support).

When many players see a Teemo, Poppy, or similar off-meta support, they recognize that their opponents are doing something non-standard, and rightly think that they should punish it somehow. However, they sometimes wrongly assume that the way to punish it is to quickly rip their opponents' heads off. The main point of taking a conventional support is not to kill your opponents in the early game. Sure, some supports will be better at doing this than others, and depending on the exact matchup, you may have some kill pressure. However, if your opponents have a Teemo support (for example), they will almost certainly have more kill pressure than you early, since Teemo is a very strong laner. So you should try to avoid early trades.

The point of taking a conventional support is that there's only enough farm on the map for 4 players, and supports don't need a lot of farm to be effective. So, if you're laning against a Teemo support and manage to simply not die, your support will be much more effective in the late game (unless Teemo is taking farm from the ADC, in which case the ADC will be weaker). All Teemo can contribute will be a blind, perhaps some mushroom slows, and a little poke, while your support should bring a lot more CC/utility. The point is, these weaknesses won't show for a while, so you probably shouldn't try to all-in Teemo early on. Just play back, farm, and take your mid/late-game advantage.

Please, my dear teammates: Stop feeding Teemo.

76 Comments

WukongMain16 votes

err get to level 30. you'll see less and less non traditional supports.

remember your current teammates are still learning the game, they dont know what a "traditional support" is lol

kcStranger1 votes

Yeah workin' on it ;)

And actually once I get to that level, I'd prefer to see the weird supports. So long as we're all on the same page about how to handle it :D

Aspynn3 votes

I absolutely ADORE off meta supports, allow me to list some of my favorites :D

Caitlyn Full ap cait is a beast, honestly she's pretty cheesey but she does an amazing job at stopping jungler in their tracks and assisting her ADC kite. Also if your opposing support is stupid, stack three traps at level 1 in the same spot in a bush and get FB easily. Definitely not viable in higher elos, and I wouldn't dare try it in ranked, but a shit ton of fun vs stupid enemies, and her damage is surprisingly good, with a 60% ratio on traps (which can be stacked 4 times if used correctly) and an 80% ratio on her e. Not to mention that she provides some pretty amazing poke and her ult base damage is very nice. If teamfights are coordinated around her traps she is surprisingly useful.

Elise I don't play elise support much anymore, but back when DFG was still in the game (I like full AP supports, can you tell?) She had some very nice burst and provides some pretty nice poke, and decent cc and kiting (with rylai's)

Cassiopeia Was obsessed with cass support for a little while, her poke is at a level close to vel's IMO, and support cass stacks her passive WAY faster than a midlaner who will be focusing on CSing rather than poking. Her zoning is amazing, and after 6 her cc is pretty decent and her all ins are pretty good once you get a tear. Her passive also helps you out with damage since as a support you shouldn't be building ENTIRELY AP.

Lissandra I suck at Lissandra, but I've always loved the IDEA of lissandra support. She has SO MUCH utility, and her passive definitely helps you not to waste mana but still be able to poke. Her engage potential is very nice, and when facing a full support support with no damage, she can completely shut down the enemy ADC with her ult and assist her ADC in getting a double kill. She also has some nice surprise ganks when returning from laning or warding.

Maokai Maokai is honestly a little bit outshined by Leona, but Mao can actually build full AP and actually do damage. Also, like Caitlyn, he can easily stack saplings to get an easy FB or lategame a 1shot. His poke is okay and using his ult to give you ADC some resistances is nice.

Heimerdinger Very good zoner, but usually at the detriment of his ADC's CS. He is also very easy to gank, and his turrets have rather small amounts of HP. But his poke is quite nice, and his all in isn't bad at all.

Sejuani Sejuani has always been one of my favorite tanky/ap supports. She can still build full ap and end up with a lot of resistances thanks to the many AP/mr or AP/armor and AP/health items. She does very well with Lich bane, and I used to love DFG on her. Her engage is very nice, but she really doesn't have any poke at all, and she isn't an AMAZING peeler, but she does deal with towerdives quite well, and can in turn towerdive well herself.

Orianna She isn't the greatest of AP supports, but she has nice poke, and she does have more utility for her ADC than most other "midlaners" playing support. He cc isn't great, but she has great wombos with a lot of ADCs like graves, MF, and Varus.

Syndra Syndra often does very well in laning, but most games I've played with full AP support Syndra I have lost, mainly due to me becoming far too cocky and not thinking through my actions and playing safely. But she does have some very ncie poke and utility, and her cc is nice, especially when using E after an ult.

Nautilus Nautilus is a beastly support, I'm honestly surprised I haven't seen more nautilus supports. His CC is practically unrivaled, he has a surpression/displacement (his Q) and a built in root on his AA, as well as a nice AOE slow that can be used for poking, and a unique knockup ultimate. He also has AP ratios on all of his skills, so he can be played full AP, and des very nice when build AP, like sejuani and maokai, he can build tanky and AP at the same time and do good damage and act as an offtank for the team.

Zac Zac's AP ratios really suck, so he's best built as a tank. His engage from an unwarded bush is very nice, and his poke isn't horrible as far as tanks go. His passive can also be very useful in bating your enemies into a bad situation, and possibly allowing your ADC to pick up another kill, or keeping the enemy from doing so.

Xerath Xerath is a super nice support IMO, but the recent nerf to his stun duration at full range is kind of a detriment to his utility. However, his stun is still surprisingly long, and his poke is amazing. Just be careful not to steal CC from your ADC.

I absolutely hate seeing Teemo and Chogath support, (although cho is actually pretty decent as a support) but they too can still be played decently as supports. I generally just get bored of playing super passive supports, and I've never been a huge fan of Leona or Thresh, and I really enjoy ripping ADCs apart with full AP builds. But generally if my ADC wants me to play as a certain champion, (or not to play a certain champion quite often in my case XD) I will (or won't).

Edit: (Holy I just realized how long this was

aaronconlin1 votes

Don't forget JarvanIV support

Aspynn1 votes

I didn't list it simply because I've only ever played it once. It was fun! But he isn't one of my favorites, but I honestly think he's just a hidden support pick that could become very popular in the future, he's pretty viable IMO, but he definitely benefits from a cash flow that isn't available in the support role.

freeformline1 votes

I love Cassiopeia support! Not realizing she had just been reworked, I picked her up during the Shurima event so I would have a good mage for the rare times I play mid. I got to know her, enjoyed her playstyle and the challenge of surviving lane when her passive stacked on minion kills, and, being a support main, immediately took her bot lane for the very reasons you listed. She's not someone I play in solo queue, but I love playing her if I know my ADC can handle it and the team compliments the choice. Her play patterns aren't that different from those of traditional supports, so long as you ignore the fact that none of her abilities actually affect her allies. I find she does very well with Jinx. They have enough crowd control between them that safety isn't a problem if you play intelligently, their poke can make laning difficult for opponents, and they promise a brutal late game, even if Cass is loaded with support items.

Aspynn2 votes

Yeah, I also enjoy having a Kalista ADC because you can ult combo, but it's a little bit harder since once Kalista runs your enemies usually begin running. I played Cass/Jinx once and it didn't go too well, mainly because my ADC would run every time I got caught instead of fighting a battle we easily could've won. Jinx and Cass have great dueling potential together, and their poke is quite strong.

Remlap12231 votes

Not including Gangplank support...

BURN HERETIC!

DeathToHeretics1 votes

Did somebody say, heretics?

RogueWill1 votes

If you are building AP on Sejuani support you are doing it wrong. She is basically a Leona with a bit of higher CD in trade for a much better clear and initial brust. Build Sejuani the same way you would build a leona item 3401 item 3143 item 3190

B1naryB0t2 votes

He didn't say he was trying too hard, he said he likes having fun.

Aspynn1 votes

Well honestly the first time I played Sejuani support I played full tank, but I was like 11/2 by like 15 minutes in and I just went around the map murdering people, so I decided to take up AP Sej to do more damage. I also liked to watch AP Sejuani montages for fun. Her burst is(was) so high. But I haven't played her since DFG was removed, and that was a core part of AP sejuani... I wouldn't call Sejuani a Leona clone because she does play quite a bit differently IMO, and she benefits way more than Leona with AP. I'm also very sad to say that AP Leona isn't a thing, I wish she had better scalings D: but then I guess she'd be an op toplaner.

pleep27 votes

{quoted}

err get to level 30. you'll see less and less non traditional supports.

remember your current teammates are still learning the game, they dont know what a "traditional support" is lol

The op is completely right lvl 30 or not.

WukongMain3 votes

the op?

Frosty Hoodoo19 votes

{quoted}

the op?

OP can also stand for Original Poster. Not just OverPowered.

WukongMain13 votes

Learn something new everyday ^_^.

zane yalgir8 votes

{quoted}

Learn something new everyday ^_^.

been there was just as lost lol

WukongMain8 votes

i saw "the op" i was legit in a mind blown stasis wondering what they could mean. lol

RogueWill1 votes

Most online treads forums (like Reddit,9gag,4chan) got that term popular. Since League had it for quite longer I guess is just normal to be confused

Kyloz2 votes

I guess you could say bard ulted you(stasis joke), ay? ay? kill me please

junglerboy161 votes

Just because he is level 29 doesn't mean he is matched with other level 29 players. You get matched based on MMR, not level, so if he plays a lot of normals, he probably has the MMR of at least a silver player in normals.

kcStranger1 votes

Yeah, I do tend to get matched against a lot of L30's. If I'm in a game with mostly sub-30's, I'm usually one of the best players in the game. I'm certainly not amazing, though; I've been playing since mid-October---about 250 games total--and there's a lot to learn in this game.

gr8job1 votes

A big thing is availability, too. Lower-level players simply don't have access to many champions who are not free or cheap (unless they spend RP.) I know the pre-6 free champs don't include a support (unless you count Lux) and maybe the free post-6 supports that week are not appealing to the person "stuck" with support.

Good on you for recognizing this important piece of info. so early on though. :)

pleep6 votes

pretty solid analysis + 1

SpecterVonBaren2 votes

But Poppy sup is legit bro. I had a Poppy support me even though I picked Lulu and was going support and we won lane hard. Was also fun because they had the Noxus Poppy skin and kept saying things like, "That b*tch needs to die." and proceed annihilate the enemy bot lane.

kcStranger1 votes

Yeah, you're right that Poppy does bring some tools to the table that mean she can support. However, I still think that if the opposing bot lane manages not to feed, she'll almost certainly be worse than the opposing support in the late game. Her passive, Q, and W only help her own damage/durability (which will be worse since she's a support), and the E stun requires a lineup with terrain. The R has the utility of preventing damage to your team from one opponent, but Poppy's increased damage against the target will again be somewhat wasted with her as the support.

She does, however, bring a lot more laning presence than typical supports which means your opponents may just get roflstomped if they don't understand how to play against her (particularly if they don't understand how to avoid the stun). This goes back to my original point.

Tentacle Love2 votes

Poppy as support can work ridiculously well. You don't just have some tanky abilities, you can make yourself near unkillable with your ult, you can knock enemy champions into your own turrets, you can pull enemies away from the adc, and in a pinch, you can eliminate low health targets lightning fast. (probably sending assist gold to your carry, which is always nice)

Anyone who underestimates her deserves to get wrecked.

junglerboy161 votes

The thing that you are missing with that idea is that you are comparing anti-carry lane Poppy with support Poppy. As support Poppy, she only needs to do 2 things: peel her ADC and engage fights. She doesn't need to be the damage dealer in order to do either (although her Q %HP scaling means she deals damage even without items), and she is comparable to Alistar in terms of peel and engage if she can get a wall stun off. Is she as strong as top lane Poppy? nope. Does she need to be? nope.

That said, I still think Poppy isn't that great as a support because her early game is too weak to take advantage of her engage.

kcStranger1 votes

Hmm, I forgot about the %HP scaling on the Q. I don't think we'll be seeing support Poppy in the LCS without some sort of major kit change, but that certainly does help.

Hard4Hamsters2 votes

Why is it that Vel'Koz is thought of as a support before being considered a midlaner by so many people? He's a monster when he builds AP, he can lane safely, and as a support he can only provide moderate CC and no utility for his carries while also being squishy. His damage is just so high, especially with his true damage dealing passive. Why is he seen as a support?

Lao Fu the Tiger1 votes

{quoted}

Why is it that Vel'Koz is thought of as a support before being considered a midlaner by so many people? He's a monster when he builds AP, he can lane safely, and as a support he can only provide moderate CC and no utility for his carries while also being squishy. His damage is just so high, especially with his true damage dealing passive. Why is he seen as a support?

Generally because his base damages (especially on his ultimate) are so absurd they let him do ridiculous damage with no items. And he provides some utility.

As for why he doesn't lane, his scalings by themselves are kind of average. I personally love laning with him, but some people just don't find him burst enough since he's more of a sustained poke mage.

Applesaucey1 votes

If you think he only has moderate cc your playing against some bad Vel koz. His q is damn near a perma slow and a very high percentage one at that. And his knock back is really solid peel.

SociopathFriend1 votes

His Q can't perma slow. It's a powerful slow but it's not quite Ashe levels of slow, and it stops when it hits something, which actually does happen somewhat often. His knockback is good for peel but landing it isn't extremely easy, at higher levels people are much less likely to just charge in one direction.

Lao Fu the Tiger1 votes

{quoted}

His Q can't perma slow. It's a powerful slow but it's not quite Ashe levels of slow, and it stops when it hits something, which actually does happen somewhat often. His knockback is good for peel but landing it isn't extremely easy, at higher levels people are much less likely to just charge in one direction.

This. Plus, I was generally comparing his CC to a support like Janna or Thresh, who are much more utility based than Vel'Koz.

Sozan54 votes

Actually, he's not much stronger even with gold from mid and that's because his scalings are rather low:

P: No scaling. Q: 60% AP W: 25% + 37,5% = 62,5% AP E: 50% AP R: 60% AP

Now, if you compare it to his bases:

Q: 250 W: 110 + 165 = 275 E: 190 R: 900

In order to double your damage output from all skills combined you will need 695 AP. This doesn't mean that his damage output is lower than other mages... It just means that his AP doesn't impact his damage as much as other mages (as such, he doesn't need much of it in order to be effective). This is especially true if you remember that his passive doesn't scale either.

This is also the reason why Vel'Koz should focus on penetrations and cdr rather than AP.

**Tl;dr - Vel'Koz doesn't need as much AP to be an effective mage. **

JevelFaithful1 votes

Good points, don't forget his autoscaling passive too. EDIT : Nvm you did mention it.

I think Vel has been played as a support since his release actually. Always an off-beat support, but played as such nonetheless.

Sinister Snail2 votes

Vel'koz main here. I definitely use him more in the mid lane, and when I support, it's usually with Thresh.

When considering picking supp vel, you have to look at your team, not just your adc. If you don't have two other bulky roles, usually top and jg, you probably should go someone who can take hits in the late game, and rely more on your team for damage.

If you do have, say, a malphite and rengar, then vel supp becomes a strong pick. He's good at harassing early, if you can land his Q; honestly, people watch for it pretty well when you're laning, and you're better off shooting it straight at them 99% of the time. His EW combo makes for a very punishing disengage if they go in for you or your adc, and lets you counterattack pretty well if your adc is in a good place.

He really shines in mid-late game though. As others have mentioned, the fact that he doesn't depend on items leaves him in a really good spot once laning is over; just sorc shoes and athenes/morello leaves you able to contribute solid damage. Then you get a sightstone, though; you're still a support. After that, itemize and play like a mid mage, and you'll contribute well.

I like MF and vel bot lane; the double ult is just mean. Sej jungle works great with him too, even before cinderhulk.

Kitten of Evil1 votes

It's probably because his secondary tag is "Support", and people don't realize how inaccurate those are (Bard's, for example, is "Mage". LOL)

kcStranger3 votes

Haha I recently saw a video of someone doing a full jungle clear with Bard (with runes/masteries specifically optimized for that purpose). He finished it at 5:25. The video was titled "Possible Record for World's Slowest Clear Speed..."

Destínum1 votes

Teemo hasn't been tagged as a support for years now.

Kitten of Evil1 votes

Really? I was fairly sure it was still tagged until recently, last I had checked... and there are reddit posts from even this year mentioning his being a "Support" -- see http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/2s5zqb/can_we_please_remove_teemo_as_a_support_he_doesnt/

kcStranger2 votes

Just checked at http://gameinfo.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/champions/. Teemo is now tagged as Marksman/Assassin.

JevelFaithful2 votes

If you're thinking about teemo. Riot's "support" tag actually means "playstyle help the team" or "Need teamwork". Which technically is support(Role). But not support(position).

bad arcade kitty1 votes

base damages depend on levels, solo lanes get the levels the fastest also supports have quite a lot of gold nowadays so by your logic vel'koz is stronger at mid where he can utilize his high base damage the fastest

JevelFaithful1 votes

True. But if you don't leave your lane, your opponent level at the same speed. Ofcourse most mid roam and so need that level. There's also the jungler. Not sure if A vel'Koz is good to roam a lot with.

SociopathFriend1 votes

You'd be surprised, I'm starting to roam as Vel a lot after I hit 4 or so. I can shove my lane ridiculously easy then head bot with the jungler to get a quick 4v2 gank and then head back to lane and catch the wave just managing to approach my turret. Doing this after 6 is even more effective since your ult is pretty long range, meaning turret campers with low health are easy.

JevelFaithful1 votes

I'll trust you on that one. And Vel is one of those champ I'd seriously like to see well played.

SociopathFriend2 votes

Not to sound egotistic, but I think I play Vel'Koz very well- although that's mostly just because I consider myself good at landing skillshots.

A properly lined up ultimate is devastating in a teamfight, 900 damage (60%AP) to possibly the entire enemy team? Not even counting the true damage procs? It's immensely powerful- with good peel Vel'Koz brings more damage than Ziggs and he's easier to use than Xerath (imo anyways, Xerath's damage is overrated when nobody consistently lands all 3 ult shots).

A Miss Fortune1 votes

Basically the 10 most common supports I see (As an ADC main)

Sona Annie Heimerdinger Nidalee Nautilus Leona Bard Blitzcrank Thresh Janna

40% of those aren't true supports.

Then you also have the less common Xerath and Velkoz who just carry late game.

kcStranger2 votes

See the last paragraph of my post. What I'm really talking about is a cheese support who doesn't really bring enough to the table to be a support but can be effective if the opponents respond badly. I think Heimerdinger is a good example of a cheese support. He doesn't bring much CC, and his kit almost requires him to push the lane and probably steal CS from his ADC. But he's one of the easiest champions in the game to misplay and die against. Basically, you just have to farm under your turret forever.

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