ZZ'rot portal counterplay

Luxxum·Jan 15, 2015·1 votes·1,346 views

We had a heimer mid rush zz'rot and banner of command, and quickly took 1.5 towers simply due to the pushing power. The top renek built one too and went mid, and pushed to inhib tower. It took 3-4 of us just to stop the mid push. We managed to bet them back from the portals, only to realize that they only take damage from autoattacks (and targeted abilities? I didn't have any). we then stood there for 10 seconds hammering at the things because the adc was bot and none of us built a ton of ad, only to have them just place more a few seconds later.

Does anyone have some advice for counterplay against this item?

19 Comments

LwntJan 16, 20152 votes

I was playing lulu support and my auto attack was doing 35 damage. It took me 1 min and 8 seconds to destroy it. I made a post about this but apparently no one cared.

Too TonJan 16, 20151 votes

Supports aren't supposed to do damage on aa...... normal ad champs will have no problem. (Ex: 80 AD level 2 or so

LwntJan 16, 20151 votes

That not right just because we have less ad we still should be allow to destroy it easily like any other champs.

Lord DusteonJan 16, 20153 votes

{quoted}

That not right just because we have less ad we still should be allow to destroy it easily like any other champs.

"This mini voidspawn portal should be equally squishy, so that someone building entirely to support their team can still quickly destroy it!"

How about we make turrets take an even 200 damage per attack then, that way supports don't feel bad about trying to take turrets? Why don't we make all champions take 100+(10x level) damage from autoattacks, that way supports don't feel bad about not doing damage?

The entire point of that gate is to be a turret pushing structure that you have to actually try to destroy. Making it equally squishy to everyone ruins any threat it poses.

LwntJan 16, 20152 votes

So what I am suppose to just ignore it and wait for someone else to come and destroy it because I am a support. And let it just destroy my turret Fuck you. That item has to much health and their needs to be easier way for people who dont have ad stats to take it down.

Subject 5Jan 16, 20151 votes

Considering Lulu is capable of dealing damage and has a passive for auto attacks, and it takes an entire minute and longer to actually destroy and item that has a rather short CDR for what it does . . . it should not be that tanky. Now i don't know if Lulu passive is actually capable of producing damage to the portal, however that does not really answer the problem of ANY champion auto attacking (I mean, beside Raka of course.) an item should not be forced to do so for 1 minute or even longer. Also acting in a demeaning way towards an individual without coming off in an aggressive manner is pretty rude as well, you should consider manners, Lord Dusteon.

LwntJan 16, 20151 votes

It doesnt proc lulu passive

Subject 5Jan 16, 20151 votes

All righty, thanks for letting me know :D

Lord DusteonJan 16, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Subject 5,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6kYREAYp,comment-id=000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-01-16T03:44:27.962+0000)

Considering Lulu is capable of dealing damage and has a passive for auto attacks, and it takes an entire minute and longer to actually destroy and item that has a rather short CDR for what it does . . . it should not be that tanky. Now i don't know if Lulu passive is actually capable of producing damage to the portal, however that does not really answer the problem of ANY champion auto attacking (I mean, beside Raka of course.) an item should not be forced to do so for 1 minute or even longer. Also acting in a demeaning way towards an individual without coming off in an aggressive manner is pretty rude as well, you should consider manners, Lord Dusteon.

They had said they were doing 35 damage to it, when they had items of frost fang, sightstone, and boots.

I don't think someone who has one support damage item should be destroying my turrets for free, do you? The item has 800 base hp and a static 100 armor; it also tends to die in 2-3 seconds if any champion with any AD attacks it. Even with lulu hitting it for 35 damage, that would be 23 hits to kill it; still nowhere near a minute. The main problem at this point is not "this item is OP/to tanky/to damaging", it's that they were extremely behind on a support trying to take down what amounts to a mini turret with lower defences and no damage.

For demeaning, I was hyperbolizing (obviously those suggestions are rather stupid; so is suggesting making a weak defensive item that requires either the enemy team to ignore it or your team to guard it even weaker and squishier) to make a point. If you dislike that, skip down a line for the tldr and imagine the person making the post just saw the 30th "nerf x champion/item/jungle/tower because I lost against someone using it", because that tends to happen in gameplay and balance a lot (not really a great excuse, but when I see someone make multiple threads complaining that one of the core features of a class (such as supports not having huge autoattacks, or adcs doing a lot of damage lategame, or fed assassins killing everything) every day it tends to grate on me).

Subject 5Jan 16, 20151 votes

Debating about turrets and an item are completely two different things, no a support should not be able to put out a general good amount of damage to a turret. However this is an item, and item that takes about-for simplicity purposes i will just say 30 seconds, one auto attack every second. (It would be longer of course) 30 seconds is a very long time just to get rid of an item passive, i firmly believe it is too strong-now i have not even seen this in game but if you have a team that lacks AD you will be suffering in the early game which could easily give additional cashflow to the enemy opponents.

Would it be safe to agree that at the very least, a minor nerf to the item should be in place? Considering how quick the banner of command can be dismantled but still very useful in the right situations-why not the portal?

Lord DusteonJan 16, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Subject 5,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6kYREAYp,comment-id=00020000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2015-01-16T04:50:35.562+0000)

Debating about turrets and an item are completely two different things, no a support should not be able to put out a general good amount of damage to a turret. However this is an item, and item that takes about-for simplicity purposes i will just say 30 seconds, one auto attack every second. (It would be longer of course) 30 seconds is a very long time just to get rid of an item passive, i firmly believe it is too strong-now i have not even seen this in game but if you have a team that lacks AD you will be suffering in the early game which could easily give additional cashflow to the enemy opponents.

Would it be safe to agree that at the very least, a minor nerf to the item should be in place? Considering how quick the banner of command can be dismantled but still very useful in the right situations-why not the portal?

Banner of command is a really niche splitpush item...for AP supports. Doesn't really see much use because the active dies so quickly (who wants a banner when a morello is better?). With very low AD (93 at level 18 is the lowest on someone without an autoattack enhancer), you still do 46 damage per hit to it; not much, but when you're a mage hitting what is basically a mini turret with anti turret properties you don't expect to do much.

If the item DOES have to be changed, the best way would probably to make it take damage on the turret formula (where ...40% I think of you AP is added as damage to it). The problem is, that makes mages extremely effective at taking these down (4-7 autoattacks) which makes them rather useless, so the value would probably need to be lower.

Subject 5Jan 16, 20151 votes

The portal is a niche split push item for tanks and supports, why would you buy it if you can build tanky items instead of having that capability? Just because you are capable of ignoring some properties of the game because nobody does it does not mean that particular 'thing' that you are ignoring is a healthy pick. Like picking Poppy jungle for example, or poppy top-she is incredibly strong and game breaking as well.

Also people should have to protect these items if they want them to continue benefiting them, hell people defend a pick ward with harsh meaning because it is an edge over the enemy team-this item should not be put down and expected to be ignored because a team has no AD nearby.

7ha7guy777Jan 16, 20152 votes

Malzahar fight the Void, with the Void

pNIeZVuIodJan 16, 20151 votes

destroy the spawner. I just built one of these in a bot game to try it out and the spawner only had 700 health that I doubt scales with the game.. Also the voidspawns have a very low range, I placed it at my tier 1 mid turret and they couldnt reach the enemy mid turret which is the shortest rang between turrets.

LuxxumJan 16, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Turk Turkleton,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6kYREAYp,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-01-16T00:12:56.868+0000)

destroy the spawner. I just built one of these in a bot game to try it out and the spawner only had 700 health that I doubt scales with the game.. Also the voidspawns have a very low range, I placed it at my tier 1 mid turret and they couldnt reach the enemy mid turret which is the shortest rang between turrets.

I wish it were that easy. It does scale with game. a few minutes before we lost one of them was at 1100 hp. That is a lot to auto through with an ap champ before they gank you.

Skia AsteriJan 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I wish it were that easy. It does scale with game. a few minutes before we lost one of them was at 1100 hp. That is a lot to auto through with an ap champ before they gank you.

item 3100

Best way to take out structures with AP champs.

LuxxumJan 16, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Skia Asteri,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6kYREAYp,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-01-16T00:33:40.208+0000)

Best way to take out structures with AP champs.

except I was rumble

Leti the YetiJan 16, 20151 votes

Just have a split pusher on your team who can literally cover every lane they will make quick work of every minion, void spawn, and portal on the map I Garen tee it