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@Jaerden: What is Lore team's opinion on Ahri?

Luxxum··13 votes·7,108 views

When Tahm Kench's VO was made available, I began reading through it, and found his quote to ahri worrying.

In ahri's lore, she is a fox who accidentally absorbs the essence of a dying mage, becoming mostly human in shape and gaining a small amount of human reasoning. She then used this to seduce and kill people to steal their essences and become more human. However, as she becomes more human, she gains a human conscience, and seeks out the IoW to find a way to become human without killing others.

However, her VO goes against this, seeming to be her before she gains a conscience. This is fine, as the VO is in game and not necessarily cannon, but Tahm Kench's line to her seems to support that the lore team is looking at her VO, not her actual lore, or worse, changing her lore to match the VO.

While Tahm Kench's taunts tend to be just personal and generally untrue, I just want to check what Lore team's current opinion is of Ahri. I would hate to see my favorite character's personality changed to being a bland seductress.

34 Comments

Irongrinder10 votes

You're too late.

Trundle went from a martyr for his race to an ice troll bully.

Xerath went from a mage willing to give up everything in his pursuit of knowledge to Jafar Villain #47.

Sivir went from capable and confident mercenary to inept buffoon.

...

Yeah, Riot is taking FANTASTIC CARE with their characters.

Luxxum1 votes

well, here's hoping this isn't another case...

Minjo Master3 votes

Trundle was never much of a martyr. In his judgment he learns that by keeping the disease all to himself he's actually dooming his entire clan, as it was augmenting their regenerative abilities and without it they will soon die. The summoner guy in charge of his judgment offers to reverse the process and return the plague to them - Trundle tells him not to, saying something to the effect of keeping what they so kindly gave him.

He knowingly and willingly sentences his people to death out of spite for how they treated him. That is no martyr. Better character than what we have now? Yeah probably. The new Trundle hasn't really done anything at all yet because RIP lore. But it really hacks me off when people who get trumped on on the Trundle thing don't even have his original lore straight. He was no martyr, and his attitude transcends "bully" - He accepted a great deal of physical suffering and agony onto himself to passively commit the genocide of his people.

I'll give you the other two though.

Irongrinder1 votes

He might not've been a martyr in the noblest sense, but taking on the suffering to doom his people? It's considerably more interesting than the two-bit thug we've got now.

The way I see it, Old Trundle was going to sink the ship to get at the captain because he could swim. New Trundle just likes to have the biggest club to hit things with.

Doctor Ivellius1 votes

He was initially willing to become a martyr for his people, but the harsh treatment he continued to endure pushed him to doom his people. The start of his character story was him taking the curse.

Valaran Nara5 votes

{quoted}

Xerath went from a mage willing to give up everything in his pursuit of knowledge to Jafar Villain #47.

To a mage willing to give up everything in his pursuit of freedom. He's not a Jafar villain. People complained because his overall goal is not knowledge but freedom. Otherwise, he became a powerful magus and high-level scholar. It's just that, instead of being cooped up away from his fellow peers, he decided to stay cooped up in a library away from the nobles and play a little game of politics.

Actually, if you think about it, Old Xerath "might" have done the same thing if he was stuck in a noble's home with access to a vast enough library.

Sivir went from capable and confident mercenary...

To a capable and confident mercenary that happened to have been betrayed by a Noxian noble. She's not a buffoon. You say this as though she will fall for anything.

Irongrinder4 votes

Xerath:

We've been through this debate before, and the forums largely determined that New Xerath's motivations and methodologies are more in line with Jafar from Aladdin and/or The Homunculus in the Flask from Fullmetal Alchemist than the original.

Sivir:

Let's see..

-Actively hated by Noxus? Check.

-Accepts deal from Noxus? Check.

-Stands by idly while her comrades are slaughtered by traps? Check.

-Falls for the increasingly obvious Noxian backstab? Check check check.

Sivir might be intelligent, but said intelligence was downright slaughtered in the name of Cassiopeia's and Azir's origin stories.

Chespin20131 votes

ehh the new xerath lore reminds me of father from fma really not jafar

Matezoide8 votes

''How dare this arrogant son of a bitch push Ahri's buttons with his taunt? My poor waifu doesnt deserve this!''

The taunt fits perfectly. He knows about her past, he knows what she did, and he is using it against her. Thats the exact same thing he does to every other champion.

Luxxum6 votes

I just want to make sure riot knows that as well. They tend to like ignore current lore.

Matezoide3 votes

sigh

Fair enough, i am sorry. I dont know what came over me or why i replied the way i did.

Luxxum2 votes

np, just happy people are still willing to discuss lore at all nowadays :P

RiotRiotJaredan6 votes

Yup, we know, don't worry. Tahm Kench has an exquisite knack for saying things that would bother a person most. What would be more of a raw nerve to hit at with Ahri? I wouldn't put Ahri at either end of the "animal instinct/fully molded human" spectrum, though. She's still got some growing pains to get through. It's the challenges she faces and the crudeness that Tahm's accusation hints at that is really quite cruel and cutting. That's just me speaking though, of course.

Luxxum1 votes

Thanks for the reply! I'm really glad that is the case.

Legacy of Xion2 votes

Speaking of Ahri.

Can you make it abundantly clear AhrI feeds of human lifeforce, and not liverd?

Just something I get annoyed at >.>

Jesus is Savior4 votes

{quoted}

Yup, we know, don't worry. Tahm Kench has an exquisite knack for saying things that would bother a person most. What would be more of a raw nerve to hit at with Ahri? I wouldn't put Ahri at either end of the "animal instinct/fully molded human" spectrum, though. She's still got some growing pains to get through. It's the challenges she faces and the crudeness that Tahm's accusation hints at that is really quite cruel and cutting. That's just me speaking though, of course.

Isn't it nice to live in a world filled with wonderful champions, with personalities, stories, and lore?

Where you can know Ahri still has "growing pains" to get through?

Too bad the lore team are the only people who get to live in this world! How long until you actually, you know, give the retconned champions lore? How many years? How many years do you get to be the only people to live in this wonderful magical world?

Cakethulhu1 votes

You are aware that they do kind of have more to do than just write this story for you right?

You should call up George RR martin while you are at it, and ask him how it ends.

Jesus is Savior2 votes

{quoted}

You are aware that they do kind of have more to do than just write this story for you right?

You should call up George RR martin while you are at it, and ask him how it ends.

You are aware that most of the champs have less than a paragraph of lore now, right? (Some have NOTHING)

Are you also aware that I used to work for a company that had "writers" as one of the positions a person was hired and paid for? They would have to write multiple paragraphs per day! Every day!

Imagine how much lore Riot could pump out if they had even ONE person, just one, writing 10-20 paragraphs per day. Like fuck. 10 paragraphs isn't even a lot.

(btw - nice analogy. Comparing an entire book series to a game that hasn't even finished chapter 1 of book 1 when it comes to their lore)

Cakethulhu1 votes

What they have posted so far is a general idea, its the foot in the door, and it's also something they give you to keep people like you happy. They are creating a world, they are connecting the characters, and they are are creating politics, cities, continents, I mean, it is a really long process. If you end up putting it all together, you know it will probably end up being the size of a book or more.

They can't right out the lore of one champion in the full detail and then turn out that they decided the story could be different in order to be perfect, so that is one chapter needing to be rewritten for the whole story.

What you are reading, and what you are getting so upset about is samples. That is all. Just samples, subject to change at any point.

Jesus is Savior1 votes

{quoted}

and it's also something they give you to keep people like you happy.

I'm not happy. rofl

I liked the old lore. I don't give two shits about the new lore. Anything they pump out now will be too little, too late.

I gave up on the lore a long time ago.

Cakethulhu1 votes

Then just go by that. If you already read it ,then of course you are going to be partial to the original lore. However, I still think you are all acting like whiny brats over a fictional story riot doesn't actually have to share with you. for free.

Jesus is Savior1 votes

{quoted}

for free.

You do realize the only reason this game is free is because free-to-play business models generate more money, right?

It's not because Riot is Mr. Nice Guy, cares about its players, and wants to do you a favor. It's entirely for their own benefit.

Ragnarok Online used to be subscription based. It was dying. They switched to free-to-play to stay in business. The game would not exist right now if they hadn't. And I'll bet WoW will do the same thing if its subscription-base ever starts dwindling.

Cakethulhu1 votes

[{quoted}](name=UdyrWwYi Jg ONLY,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=a3qjevea,comment-id=0004000000010002000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-07-04T04:09:10.765+0000)

You do realize the only reason this game is free is because free-to-play business models generate more money, right?

It's not because Riot is Mr. Nice Guy, cares about its players, and wants to do you a favor. It's entirely for their own benefit.

Ragnarok Online used to be subscription based. It was dying. They switched to free-to-play to stay in business. The game would not exist right now if they hadn't. And I'll bet WoW will do the same thing if its subscription-base ever starts dwindling.

In nway did I say that wasn't true, I'm just saying they don't have to.

Photos of Ghosts3 votes

Dis. JAREDANU PLS.

Luxxum1 votes

whoops didn't notice I misspelled his name :P

FailedEXE3 votes

Are you implying that she is NOT a seductress? The lore, her in-game quotes, charm ability? Growing a conscious doesn't change what she is. So the latest champion finally has a taunt for Ahri.... Big deal. He has a taunt for nearly the entire cast of champions, and just because half the female champions show more skin doesn't make Ahri any less provocative.

Luxxum2 votes

The lore shows she changed, and her VO doesn't really matter, as the general consensus on the forum is it was made before the second half of her lore, and therefore doesn't shed light on her personality. I mean in her lore her quote is: "Mercy is a human luxury... and responsibility.", while her VO says: "It's too late for mercy". complete 180. The problem is that I'm worried the Lore team is thinking of Ahri in terms of her VO, and not her Lore, which would ruin what makes her unique.

Legacy of Xion2 votes

{quoted}

The lore shows she changed, and her VO doesn't really matter, as the general consensus on the forum is it was made before the second half of her lore, and therefore doesn't shed light on her personality. I mean in her lore her quote is: "Mercy is a human luxury... and responsibility.", while her VO says: "It's too late for mercy". complete 180. The problem is that I'm worried the Lore team is thinking of Ahri in terms of her VO, and not her Lore, which would ruin what makes her unique.

This is something I worry about too...

GreenLore2 votes

Well even if Ahri doesn't want to seduce and kill people anymore,that doesn't change the fact that she used to do it and that she is most likely still rather flirty(and that she still runs around in a very fanservicery outfit),so it could easily apply to ahri even after she started to feel regret for killing others.

Luxxum2 votes

the problem is that it never really said whether she just got them into a dark alley and killed them or actually did more seducing than that. Perhapse the only reason she used seduction to begin with is that her animal instincts saw it as a means to her end.

IDK, compared to the other costumes in league, ahri's is fairly tame.

Darrosh Jewfist2 votes

Hey, it's good you brought up this Ahri discussion because Ahri is probably one of the most iconic champions in League right now. I mean, you see a ton of fanart and Ahri is featured heavily in promotional images and even the New Dawn video - so it's clear that marketing and art at the very least want to flesh out Ahri a lot more.

That said, it does seem like Ahri is in a bit of strange spot - written lore and VO's not matching.

It'd probably be good to discuss what are perceptions of Ahri as a community - and what the lore team's goal is. Do you want Ahri to fulfill that role of a seductress? Or do you just want a flirty femme fatale sort of personality that exudes lust with each movement? Like an unobtainnable Bond girl?

Xano5012 votes

So, what Lore team should do first.

Chromatic Eagle2 votes

I just assumed it was more on how she dresses and acts, rather than her past or a retcon. Even in battle she'd be flirty.

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