Support items lack focus

StoryDuck··1 votes·283 views

Support itemization is a mess at this time. Almost every item has a spread of stats that have no focus on one particular aspect. This spread of stats with a mix of tanky/utility/offense makes it hard to have optimal itemization on a support champion. This leads to some items being better then others and having the player base grossly favor a select few items. Some items have good focus and are therefore desired by support players. This is all about their stat allocation because as it stands most support items are a mess. Many items can be used on multiple supports but they will often have wasted stats. There should be a better focus of support items so that they are better fits for enchanters, vanguards, support mages, and other types of supports.

The biggest culprit of this lack of focus is the tacking on of tank stats. In fact the items not intended for tank supports all have a single type of tank stat tacked onto them. I understand that supports are squishy but lets face it, 30 MR isn't going to make a huge difference on a support versus the 2 completed items of the mid laner. Take item 3050 for example. Mana, AP, CDR, a utility ability and oh look armor. How about item 3069? Lets have a CDR, regen, movement item and then "blam!" add some armor. item 3222 20% shield/heal, regen, powerful utility ability and lets tack on some MR. item 3174 why does it have 30 MR? You see where I am going with this.

Those are all items that AP supports would like but power is lost when some of their stats is put into defense. If they were more focused as support items for a specific type of support instead of shotgunning stats on them they would start being very desirable for supports. Imagine item 3050 without the armor but Conduit passive granted bonus AP = to a % of the binded targets AD? What if item 3174 gave up on that 30 MR and gained the ability to generate charges when nearby allies dealt damage? How about item 3069 loses that armor but raises the cap CDR by 10% to 50%/55% with 20% CDR on it instead of 10%?

I'm not saying these are the solutions. Perhaps some of these items would be better as a more focused tank item, gods knows that tank supports are having just as much trouble as AP supports (although they have it a bit easier with Redemption and Locket being so strong). I also think this lack of support item focus is why all supports are building item 3190 and item 3107. Let's face it those items have amazing focus. item 3190 is a focused tanky item and item 3107 has most of its power focused onto its ability and both make pretty good tank items due to their focus on tanky stats with tanky/sustaining abilities. Perhaps we could do without the %bonus heal/shield buffing them but before we go nerfing them I want to see more focus from other support items.

3 Comments

ChaddyFantome1 votes

You can't have these items be powerful as you want them to be because they will be abused by non-supports.

Support itemization is a mess at this time. Almost every item has a spread of stats that have no focus on one particular aspect. This spread of stats with a mix of tanky/utility/offense makes it hard to have optimal itemization on a support champion.

that's ..intended.

Riot has already gone on record that they could always just put "perfect stats" on the items because who doesn't like getting stats that are perfect for them, but then ti would take away the actual choice involved in itemization because you would just always take those items.

Funnily enough, my issue with Itemization right now isn't "a lack of focus". Variety is the spice of life. My problem is that i find they are "too focused". Right now the only real option is just stacking healing/shielding items.

The biggest culprit of this lack of focus is the tacking on of tank stats. In fact the items not intended for tank supports all have a single type of tank stat tacked onto them. I understand that supports are squishy but lets face it, 30 MR isn't going to make a huge difference on a support versus the 2 completed items of the mid laner. Take item 3050 for example. Mana, AP, CDR, a utility ability and oh look armor. How about item 3069? Lets have a CDR, regen, movement item and then "blam!" add some armor. item 3222 20% shield/heal, regen, powerful utility ability and lets tack on some MR. item 3174 why does it have 30 MR? You see where I am going with this.

The reason is to deter them from being abused by other champions while also making them options for both Enchanters and Warden supports.

to check each item tho.

item 3050 I dont mind the armor on it, i mind more that it is built out of item 3024 instead of item 3191. item 3069 HAS to have armor on ti since it had item 2053 build into it. item 3222 and item 3174 BOTH have always and historically been built with items intended for minor Magic durability since their inception and there isn't really a problem with this since they provide supports with an option when laning against mage supports or midlaners an option against other midlaners at the cost of damage in exchange for utility.

StoryDuck1 votes

{quoted}

You can't have these items be powerful as you want them to be because they will be abused by non-supports.

that's ..intended.

Riot has already gone on record that they could always just put "perfect stats" on the items because who doesn't like getting stats that are perfect for them, but then ti would take away the actual choice involved in itemization because you would just always take those items.

Funnily enough, my issue with Itemization right now isn't "a lack of focus". Variety is the spice of life. My problem is that i find they are "too focused". Right now the only real option is just stacking healing/shielding items.

The reason is to deter them from being abused by other champions while also making them options for both Enchanters and Warden supports.

to check each item tho.

item 3050 I dont mind the armor on it, i mind more that it is built out of item 3024 instead of item 3191. item 3069 HAS to have armor on ti since it had item 2053 build into it. item 3222 and item 3174 BOTH have always and historically been built with items intended for minor Magic durability since their inception and there isn't really a problem with this since they provide supports with an option when laning against mage supports or midlaners an option against other midlaners at the cost of damage in exchange for utility.

So just to be clear. You want items to be weak and sub-par just because they are on a support. You want pointless stats that do not work for intended champions. You want MR on enchanters that position themselves away from the ap assassins and die even if they have that MR. You want a bit of armor despite it's uselessness.

To make myself clear, focusing stats is not a buff. Its a rearranging of the stats on the items so that they fit the intended role. In this case supports can generally be categorized as enchanters Janna Soraka , tanks Alistar Leona , and mages Zyra Malzahar. Tank should want item 3107 item 3190, enchanters should want item 3222 item 3174, and mages should want item 3050 item 3116 but this isn't happening. Instead of bringing other items up to redemption and locket all you want is to nerf the usefulness out of anything that makes support strong.

I gave some pretty good examples of how to shift the power on items for supports. I would eat my hat if anyone other then a support purchased the items with my above suggestions. A mid laner is not going to purchase an item that only grants AP when with the ADC. A top laner is not going to buy an item that only grants CDR on a grand scale. No one but an enchanter would buy an item which only big stat is a big bonus to heals/shields. You say that "riot could always just put "perfect stats" on the items because who doesn't like getting stats that are perfect for them, but then ii would take away the actual choice involved in itemization because you would just always take those items." but would making other items better to compete with redemption and locket really that bad an idea? If you think so you are not a support main and your only desires is to weaken them and make them feel weak because you fear a strong support.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

So just to be clear. You want items to be weak and sub-par just because they are on a support.

No, i am saying they have to be suboptimal for other roles to not get abused by them. Please don' stawman my wordings <_>

You want pointless stats that do not work for intended champions.

No, but the "perfect optimal stats" would be more effective on those champs than supports.

You want MR on enchanters that position themselves away from the ap assassins and die even if they have that MR. You want a bit of armor despite it's uselessness.

If i see more strawmanning, I think i will dip out because I have enough of that shit from tumblr and dont need it here, m8.

Also, armor isn't useless, especially not in botlane, and there are more champions getting AP than Assassins. As i stated before, having armor and MR on these items makes it so they aren't completely "perfectly optimized" and thus abused on other classes while also being an option for wardens.

To make myself clear, focusing stats is not a buff.

Ye sit is. If you are focusing stats, you are making them better for the intended class. That is literally a buff lol If an item loses stats that aren't ideal for X class of champions in favor of stats that are, it is by logic, a buff for that class of champions. This cant really be argued, lol.

Its a rearranging of the stats on the items so that they fit the intended role. , by that logic, all you would need do is remove the stats, since you claim the stats are 100% useless, therefore their value is 0, replacing them with nothing should then have no repercussions, correct? but of course, their value isn't 0, it just isn't what you want.

In this case supports can generally be categorized as enchanters Janna Soraka , tanks Alistar Leona , and mages Zyra Malzahar.

Well the correct terms would be Enchanters, Wardens and and Mages since Leona is pretty much forced to play like a Warden atm, but while Ali plays liek an Vanguard instead I digress . Vanguard supports lack itemization because there is so few lol. and by so few, i mean only 1 xD, (unless you count Blitzcrank.)

Tank should want item 3107 item 3190,

  • Healing and shielding items
  • for tanks only

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

enchanters should want item 3222 item 3174,

Why would I as an enchanter ever want Mikaels over item 3504 , and why is it being limited to enchanters only as if it is wrong for Wardens and tanky supports to want it?

and mages should want item 3050 item 3116

Why is Zeke's here being made out to be a Make support item when ti was made to bridge the gap between all supports, but primarily as a means for Enchanters to actually get use out of their AP utlity scalings? Mage supports would sooner pick up aitem 3151 or any str8 item really.

but this isn't happening. Nor is it meant to, nor do i see why it needs to. Support itemization should not be uniform, lest we build the same items every game and not accomplish anything. Support items have historically been abotu what they offer in terms of utility as opposed to their statlines.

You don't get Mikaels because you want AP or MR or because "your an enchanter and supposed to build it" as you erroneously assert. you get it because their is an important key CC you want removed from an ally.

You don't get item 3190 because "you are a tank support and are supposed to build defense" you get it because you wanna absorb AoE Burst damage.

These are things hat supports across all classes would potentially feel the need to itemize for and limiting these to specific classes of support all together as oppose to letting ti be a champion by champion basis is quite frankly narrow-minded.

This is why these items arent skewed to 1 specific kind of support.

Instead of bringing other items up to redemption and locket all you want is to nerf the usefulness out of anything that makes support strong.

Again, enough with the strawmans, its quite frankly disgusting, especially as a proud of a support player as I am. I have written books worth of analysis and suggestions evaluating and discussing the support role while trying to improve it for years now, and i do not appreciate your baseless accusations en lieu of actual points.

I gave some pretty good examples of how to shift the power on items for supports. I would eat my hat if anyone other then a support purchased the items with my above suggestions.

Hope you like Fedora flavored.

A mid laner is not going to purchase an item that only grants AP when with the ADC.

Firts off, it doesn't "only grant AP when with the AD. it grants AP from the statline and at a considerably lower price. This can then be amped by chaining it with any given champion, not just the ADC, which will the give them a free Deathcap. As a midgame powerspike, this would be HUGE if the statline was too well optimized the way you set it up. Midlaners already are reluctant to sink the gold into purchasing Deathcap as is. Giving them this option with defensive stats, substantial base stats and at a far lower price margin would be hella strong prospect..

A top laner is not going to buy an item that only grants CDR on a grand scale.

Legit all you would have o do to make toplaners get Knights vow is add CDR to it. Again, because it is so cheap an item and provides efficient HP and Armor for the price.

It isn't just a pure matter of how slot efficient the item is. its about gold efficiency too. If an item provides somewhat lower stats than item B, but is WAY cheaper, than it will always be better to rush that item over item B because you get your powerspike sooner than the competition.

No one but an enchanter would buy an item which only big stat is a big bonus to heals/shields.

Considering every support regardless of class buys item 3190 and item 3107 , I highly disagree. Hell, Ive seen some Midlaners get it. In pro play Ivern is a damn Jungler and even he gets it.

You say that "riot could always just put "perfect stats" on the items because who doesn't like getting stats that are perfect for them, but then ii would take away the actual choice involved in itemization because you would just always take those items." but would making other items better to compete with redemption and locket really that bad an idea?

yes it would, because we already have come to the agreement that those items are problematic and the outliers. Buffing every support time to their level would just be power creeping Support itemization.

Before The changes to those 2 items, other support items were purchased on an in and out basis perfectly fine. it is their introduction that has warped Support itemisation. This can't really be argued.

If you think so you are not a support main and your only desires is to weaken them and make them feel weak because you fear a strong support.

How mature. Also, nice no-true-scotman fallacy, u child.

Not only do you lack any real argument, but you know very little of the support role and have a very naive concept of it as a whole, let alone the game.

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