Does anybody else see something wrong with this picture?
Darius Items (ARAM)
Why should Darius get such damn good healing while Renekton's stuck with a cap on his? Why is Darius not capped?
EDIT: I'm more suggesting that Darius' heal be capped than Renekton receive buffs.
Big Lincoln51 votesno?
renekton's isn't telegraphed as hell or delayed nor does it have a minority area where the heal actually procs
Jbels5 votes[{quoted}](name=Solomon Money,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6e9zmqqX,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-09-11T01:35:03.354+0000)
no?
renekton's isn't telegraphed as hell or delayed nor does it have a minority area where the heal actually procs
It also takes time to build up to 50 Fury for the heal to actually be worth something, whereas Darius only needs to land a short delayed Q edge to get his, and it SCALES into late game! Renekton's is capped and flat per unit instead of based on how much damage he does to everything around him like it used to. I'm sorry, but if Darius is allowed to have shit tons of damage late game even when building tons of health (something else renekton doesn't get to do) AND gets to sustain himself in team fights, Renekton should be allowed to as well
Kotex10 votes[{quoted}](name=Solomon Money,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6e9zmqqX,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-09-11T01:35:03.354+0000)
no?
renekton's isn't telegraphed as hell or delayed nor does it have a minority area where the heal actually procs
People keep saying "Just dodge it" as the be all end all justification for ramping up darius's kit. You can dodge and play around everything in the game--that is simply the way to play, and its the other's person's intent to out play and counteract defensive and safety measures--ergo: "Just dodging it." If you find a way to make it work, find a way to play around your own telegraph then it doesn't matter if the person sees it coming because its still doing its job.
Renekton's Q is just as telegraphed as an Auto Attack, because logically if you saw a renekton walking toward you, you would immediately think hes going to Q you, right? That in and of itself is telegraphing because what else is actually going to happen? A hug? A handshake?
Jungle Lux God2 votesThen Renekton uses E to jump in your face and suddenly, his Q isn't telegraphed anymore. Bummer.
Ace Access 2 votesit isn't telegraphed ?, I played him during a free week and I kept doing that a lot because it was very reliable,
Sinlaire3 votesE-W-Q-E Best free heals and damage ever on no rescource
Big Lincoln3 voteswow, it's almost like you have to interact with your opponent and actually outplay them.
i still don't see the issue. Darius doesn't get this free mega-heal every single time he uses Q unless dodging a small AoE is too hard for you, and you don't get to just juke it for your youtube highlight reels without a thought if you're near him.
MakersF3 votesDodging the AoE means not fighting back, as it's not that small and if you are melee there is no way to trade. Staying close to the handle means that he can AA you too, thus building 5 stacks and stomping you. Q AA pull AA Q and you are done. So, as a melee, i can not fight him or I'll die.
With singed the wind up is not enough to let me fling him behind me BTW, so it's not that long actually..
JavelinJoe5 votesTo be fair it isn't that small, and secondly it is on a 5 second cd at max lvl and 9 seconds at rank 1. Also for 2 of those 5 seconds you have a 90% slow if he uses his e and w as well. guaranteed 90% slow with his w and q combo since they have the same cd scaling and all that is before cdr. By some change lets say he aquired 40% cdr. That is a q every 3 seconds.
So you have just been pulled by e: slow for 90% 1 sec then hit by w: ~slow for 90% for 1 second then hit by q: darius heals for minimum 10% missing health repeat. In those 2 seconds of 90% slow, he can run past you, cutting off your escape, gain 5 stacks of his passive, and ult you if you are below 680 hp at a minimum (not including +1.5 per bonus ad). At lvl 16 he doesnt even need mana to ult.
Yeah there isn't a problem. Just don't go most TOP laners, junglers with out hard cc (basically everyone except 
who just so happen to all be melee champs), ADC's, low mobility MID's, ANY MELEE CHAMP.
(common spells for Darius are 
. Good luck trying to escape)
Crett4 votesBefore an argument can be made towards whether Renekton needs a buff or not, we have to look at his power level and where he could be buffed to put him in a better spot; does Renekton need to have healing that powerful?
Zenthon Prime32 votesDoes ANYONE need to have healing that powerful?
The heal is almost all of the reason Darius is complete BS right now, mind you.
Sinlaire7 votesReally? I thought it was the 200 bonus attack damage for 8 seconds at lvl 18.
silly me.
Steelflame5 votesGenerally not reliable to get it on a person except in a duel. Mostly it's his insane ability to heal for more HP with a single skill than old old old (pre rework 1.2 AP ratio nid) used to be able to heal. At low HP, he can have his Visage and masteries boost his healing by aprox 30%. This means he has an upward of a 40-45% missing hp heal... on a tank who can get upwards of 5k hp while building full tanky defense running on said passive you talked about for his damage. As a Melee, GL beating him in a raw fight, as you can't evade the sweet spot if you are actively fighting him unless you are one of the few melees who can force overlap an enemy or trigger some form of invunerability.
OyddAWqJ5r3 votesAlso, the damage is far in favor of Rene.
Rage Q for Ren is 90->270 (+120% AD)
Blade Hit Q for Darius is 40->160 (+140% AD)
And the AD ratio on Darius Q hardly matters seeing as he doesn't really build AD. Ofcourse, with his passive it becomes alot stronger, but someone needs to get stacked on or get chopped in half first for it to activate.
Basically the best possible scenario is much more easily met for Renekton than Darius.
As a Renekton main I can say that shizz doesn't need a buff.
Ziovi14 votes[{quoted}](name=Sleeper Cell,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6e9zmqqX,comment-id=00000003,timestamp=2015-09-11T06:25:31.028+0000)
Also, the damage is far in favor of Rene.
Rage Q for Ren is 90->270 (+120% AD)
Blade Hit Q for Darius is 40->160 (+140% AD)
I don't really care about renekton or darius, but to be fair you should point out that renekton scaling is on his bonus AD, while darius' is total AD Even if he doesn't build any damage (and i think darius usually build at least some damage) that would mean 56 - 197 extra damage from his own base AD. Any further bonus AD they buy would of course benefict darius' enhanced Q more than renekton's. Basically, their damage is:
Rage Q for Ren is 90->270 (+120% bonus AD)
Blade Hit Q for Darius is 96 -> 357 (140% bonus AD)
So you can see that darius' Q has clearly more damage, when they are both enhanced.
I'm not saying anythin about renekton and darius in general, mind you, and there are of course other things to consider. But just speaking of their Q's enhanced damage, you wrote missleading things.
OyddAWqJ5r3 votesMother of god, nerf it! Ayy lmao
Ziovi2 votesa fine example of a very mature comment XD
bigcountry117821 voteswth are you talking about darius does build ad along with tanky items.You just sound like a butt hurt darius main that doesn't want his favorite champ to be balanced.
OyddAWqJ5r2 votesLmao maybe if you actually read the thread xD
Also, AS A RENEKTON MAIN. RENEKTON. NOT DARIUS.
bigcountry117821 votes[{quoted}](name=Sleeper Cell,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6e9zmqqX,comment-id=0000000300020000,timestamp=2015-12-28T06:39:30.614+0000)
Lmao maybe if you actually read the thread xD
Also, AS A RENEKTON MAIN. RENEKTON. NOT DARIUS.
- Learn to read.
- Stop replying to 4 month old threads.
You think i give a damn if you main renekton?I will reply to what ever i want you hypocrite lol
OyddAWqJ5r2 votesYou're silly and probably forgot the entire context to the comment you just replied... and replied months later again. You a necrophiliac?
Well just to be clear, the reason you should give a damn that I mained Renekton is because you just claimed I mained Darius after I clearly stated I mained Renekton.
Gotta be pretty dense to accuse that when all sorts of statchecker websites are available right?
Right.
SaltyKracka24 votesDarius needs nerfs anyways.
Hayaishi221 votesRenekton has mobility and uses no mana.
Clouded Magi6 votesRenekton has mobility and uses no mana.
he also has 0 dmg without items, unlike darius, and relies on his team to do work in fights. Ren used to be the go-to safe bruiser pick because he was good at out sustaining anyone else, but these days he is 100% out classed by any jugger, or fiora
darkdill5 votesThis. Renekton either needs some love, or Darius and Fiora need sustain nerfs.
Jbels19 votesRenekton has mobility and uses no mana.
pffffft, Darius might as well be manaless right now. I have YET to ever go oom on him
Sightless665 votesMana cost nerfs next patch.
Shadow Gilgamesh11 votes
has a delay, has to hit champs, DOES have a % cap (though it's really high), and only applies to the bladed section of his Q
has no delay, heals off champs AND minions, no sweet spot to hit people with, and costs nothing.
You can just SAY Darius's heal is too good without a comparison, no one will fight you. In fact, is getting some power shifted around with his Qs heal, and he's getting an increased mana cost on it.
Gigahappytown11 votesthat build is fucking terrible
Guy Fox Teemo3 votesWell this would be a regular darius build now:
(Or )(Not specifically in this order)
Ace Access 3 votesI have to build botrk and BC along with 90-100% crits to deal with him as an adc
YOLO420SWAGSCOPE8 votesimo renekton is more of a juggernaut than darius, i mean just look at rene's ult
he should've been reworked in some way
the former king of top lane needs his love
Clouded Magi6 votesI tend to agree here, they really made ren fall off so, so hard late game, more than he used to if that's possible. Then they turn around and give darius a % missing hp heal. Ren needs to be able to crush the lane 100% before mid game or give him a better scaling heal for late game fights. as it stands, theres absolutely no reason to play renekton ever, except pure attachment to the champ itself
WooBeeWoo4 votesWell fuck it Riot doesn't care. Why does every champ in the game have capped damage vs monsters except Kalista??? Fucking Riot logic is next level stupid thats why. this is simply the top lane version of that.
g07h4xf004 votesI think the real question is: why does heal ANYTHING?? His entire thing is that he hits like a bulldozer and if you ever get in melee range of him he will always out-trade you. This was true BEFORE the rework. Why does he ALSO have to heal? What happened to his quote "make no mistakes"?? Isn't healing the result of admitting to making a mistake?
I don't understand why offensive abilities that deal damage also heal the user. How is this good design? I know that lifesteal and spellvamp exists, but they are items that you should have to buy to get that effect, and the heal is a % of the damage you deal which is more reasonable than the damage you've previously taken.
53436278DEL13 votesaatrox bud
darkdill7 votesAatrox pays health costs.
cool1653 votesAre we just gonna ignore that rent one heal is instant, doesn't have are where you NEED to hit it to get the heal, and the fact that it can also be used on minions
PatMcGroyn3 votesRenek's heal against minions is pathetically weak now, though.
360D3GR3SS2 votesdarius gets instantly killed if those are his final items. Does not matter how much HP he has because the ADC Will crit him for over 1k
darkdill2 votesIt was ARAM and we were pretty much all mages. We still won, though.
Daedalus8718 votesYou don't get to use ARAM for balance discussions.
JustMyBassCannon1 votesIn theory, Darius' Q--if it hits 2 champions--heals him for 30% max missing HP (soon to be 3 champions for 36% max missing HP).
To heal 1000 HP, he needs to have HP above 3333 (2778 post-PBE).
On the one hand, that much extra HP for standing in the middle of the enemy team might mean he'll live for 2 more seconds. And he doesn't get the heal if they're hit by the shaft.
On the other hand, Renekton's heal is piss-weak compared to it. Even just one target hit by Decimate's blade heals for more than if Renekton is standing near three enemy champions with 50+ Fury. Decimate even gets a lower cooldown.
EDIT: My mistake, it's missing HP, not max HP.
Mathbalnase4 votesDarius Q heals for %missingHP, not %maxHP. Unless he's walking around with 1HP (or close to it), those numbers are going to be very much different.
FastAsHeck1 voteswhy do people keep complaining about darius, he is fine! he is the healthiest of the juggernauts. and the reason is that he can be kited for DAYS with 0 retaliation. if you let him walk up to you and chop you in half then you deserve it for not stopping him. now, your example is aram, which doesnt really reflect the balance of the game (for all we know, your team could have been 5 adcs). as a darius player, I think its his laning that needs a nerf (1v2 when ganked is unfair, even when you manage to outplay them hard), not his teamfighting. in teamfights, even the weakest slow absolutely cripples him, even his e which is his only engage has a short range, so keep him away from your carries and you will be fine. oh and he is not a tank. he has no defensive abilities. this means you can focus him down and kill him, otherwise he will get his 5th stack and start chopping.
Tolfor1 votesI'm guessing all you folks complaining about Darius being OP haven't actually tried playing as him since the Juggernaut rework.
Suffice to say, you couldn't be more wrong. I know it's tradition to hate on Big D. but seriously, you couldn't be more wrong.
ahferroin75 votesAnd you obviously haven't played against him yet. Unless you're ranged, you will lose lane against a good Darius now almost the instant you actually fight him.
BoxOfDOG1 votesRenekton is a completely different champion.
You can't just buff one part of a kit because he doesn't have the same thing another champion has? "Omg, Aatrox doesn't revive to full health but Anivia does? UGH" "Omg, Tristana's jump is super telegraphed but Ezreal's isn't? UGH" "Omg, Gragas has a bodyslam that knocks up but Azir doesn't anymore? UGH"
RisenDarkKnight4 votesTo be fair darius has about a 75% banrate right now, the highest of all champions. People hate playing against a champ that you can't focus because they're tanky and can heal for huge amounts, but still do tons of damage that resets on a kill. So either you kite him, or you probably lose the fight.
