Boards›Gameplay

So, can we address some of Morde's unhealthy aspects before even considering tinkering with him?

Malicious Metal··59 votes·3,276 views

A lot of suggestions regarding Morde were just adding stuff to him without really compensating for the added power. Mordekaiser has been a very difficult champion to balance because of his Passive and to some extent his ultimate.

His laning phase in particular can be extremely oppressive like pre-rework darius and Garen to some extent while his own rework didn't really tackled these kinds of game health issues.

So, before we just add to his numbers and such we have to consider revising his passive interaction to really try making Mordekaiser more satisfying and fairer for both the Morde player and his vict...erm....opponents.

He could definitely profit from some low-scope changes to fix his lack of interaction during the laning phase but also giving Morde other ways to succeed other than just dominating lane and then snowballing a lead or just completely fall short after it.

My personal suggestion would be weakening the shield gained from minions if not outright removing them in favor of maybe increased shield generation of enemy champions and actually juggernaut base stats.

Another wonky Idea was giving his E a small implosion effect and changing it to vector casting. Outwards: Small knock back Inwards; Small pull (maybe 100 units or so)

Still, the fact remains, if Morde needs buffs Riot should just invest some extra time in changing more than just basic numbers in his kit. Just look at the Urgot changes, they actually shifted numbers AND added stuff instead of just giving him simple buffs

67 Comments

Ralanr13 votes

So, probably an unpopular opinion: I think his shield passive is holding him back.

It's what makes his base stats low because he effectively has two healthbars in fights and while the shield bar is based on a portion of his health, it relies on his damage output to keep up. So with enough damage the shield won't ever fall.

I don't know what to replace it with and I can't say that this opinion is well informed, but I feel it is what's holding him back.

Malicious Metal23 votes

Not an unpopular opinion.

It's a very valid point. His shield is unintuitive, it's calculated from damage dealt and generates even on minions.

Unlike Vi's and Shen's his passive isn't reliable or a static amount but its efficiency is based on enemy MR, his own damage and more.

Now, I feel shielding is very important to Morde as a character but it should be more reliable and reactionary than just something linked to how many spells you can spam.

That's why in the short term I feel his passive should be shifted into Vi/Shen territory and only work on champions, making him do juggernaut things in combat but not outright win lane because he just spammed every skill.

Ralanr6 votes

I could see it being moved to an ability passive honestly. Like sharing space with his W.

DJ S0NA1 votes

All in all, if Rylais even gets removed, Mordekaiser's passive should be changed into a something related to movement speed. If you use an ability, you will gain X movement speed (scaling until level 18) for X seconds. And so after this, a few of his awful base stats can be compensated, except for his movement speed.

Auroramancer2 votes

How would you feel about the following?

  • Shield generation scales off # of units damaged by an ability and by type of unit (champ, monster, minion).
  • Shield amount generated per unit hit increases with AP
  • Shield rapidly decays (Say, at max, decays over 3 seconds)
  • Max shield cap is increased by his Max HP instead of level.
Ravenous Howls1 votes

{quoted}

So, probably an unpopular opinion: I think his shield passive is holding him back.

It's what makes his base stats low because he effectively has two healthbars in fights and while the shield bar is based on a portion of his health, it relies on his damage output to keep up. So with enough damage the shield won't ever fall.

I don't know what to replace it with and I can't say that this opinion is well informed, but I feel it is what's holding him back.

You beat me to this but my post addresses this same issue. For Morde to get some better base stats they must change the shield. I think, MM's idea, having it only apply to champions and not minions might make it healthier and give it more counter play to allow some better numbers in his base stats.

Meep Man5 votes

Mordekaiser Mordekaiser

  • Base Health changed to 500 (+95 per level) from 525 (+73 per level) (Total Health: 500-2115 (625-2644 including passive)) Passive- Iron Man
  • No longer interacts with minions
  • Shield now stops decaying at 15/30/45/60% (at levels 1/6/11/16) from 25%
  • Damage converted increased to 30% from 25%
  • Now converts shield before reductions R- Children of the Grave
  • Now heals from damage before reductions
  • Now heals for 60% of the damage dealt (tentative)

Goal: Increase interaction in lane while also slightly reducing potential lane power. However, this power returns and becomes incredible late game. Also, Mordekaiser's Passive and Ultimate shield/healing now provide shielding and healing based on damage dealt before reductions so Mordekaiser's own durability isn't gimped by his opponents also being more durable.

How is this?

Soetsu1 votes

I wish they kept his old kit. Get rid of the dragon, get rid of the heal/xp spell, revert his passive. Then make his blade shield apply the speed increase whe moving towards an ally/enemy, and buff/debuff armor and mr over time. And change his old mace of spades to a ground targeted aoe, that deals more damage and stuns the center. Something like Rivens 3rd Q. Would be nice if it could jump short terrain too.

Malicious Metal2 votes

The stats are great, keeping his resistances low actually make damage stick and his decent Armor/level growth makes him end up on the same level as other juggernauts.

His shield ratio should probably stay 25% max hp as it's simply a CAP and nothing more. The conversion being 40% BEFORE resists would make his Q extremely strong so I'd suggest just beefing up the ratio to 30% and then make it be calculated before resists.

Decay should still be a thing but it should stop decaying at 15, 30, 45, 60 % at levels 1/6/11/16 since you really just want some shield at the beginning of team fights while giving him a decaying shields during the lane and make poke stick.

The rest's pretty reasonable, it should just streamline his defenses and make him less feast or famine while addressing the frustration of his shield during the laning phase.

Meep Man1 votes

Ah, alright!

Edit: Changed

Ravenous Howls4 votes

Wait you are asking for logical strengths and weaknesses?! That is unheard of sir! Kidding aside I actually like these idea's. It will go along way towards making him less feast or famine and give him some healthy interactions both for himself and the enemy lane opponent.

I think his base stats will stay low if they don't address the shield aspect in his kit as it is right now if give him a ton of effective health especially when he's ahead making him very difficult to counteract.

Malicious Metal3 votes

Shield based on a fixed amount of shield would also be a possible change.

Still, his base stats should be weaker than other Juggernauts but not outright abysmal if changes to his shield are made. Giving him more baseline defense makes him rely less on snowballing and make his power curve more healthy.

But yeah, his shield is by far one of the worst offenders in his kit, tied with the W xp passive

Ravenous Howls2 votes

I'd be fine on a fixed shield amount or maybe based on his max HP only?

I don't know that his base stats need to be weaker than other juggernauts but that depends largely on how much effective health his kit retains whenever they decide to actually change him. Currently there are a lot of numbers flying around his kit and as someone who doesn't play him too often it's hard for me to say what's best.

I think giving him some form of health scaling might go a long way to making him healthier and more appropriate in play style in regards to his effective health. But they will need to reevaluate how much health damage he does on his ult then as well as he does a % of targets max health + so much of his AP. They need make him feel rewarding when played and itemized well but not oppressive.

Mordepool2 votes

I'd like to see the current iteration of W removed entirely.

W- CREEPING DEATH. Mordekaiser emanates & shoots forth a Miasma of Black Mist (Enemy Minions hit by the Mist lose vision for 10 seconds) the Mist travels forth to target location (dealing damage both ways) and lingers for 1.5 seconds before returning to Mordekaiser. Then Healing for a portion of Damage dealt+ a bonus for enemy deaths. (50% reduction of bonus for lane minions)

If an enemy champion passes through the Mist it attaches to them for 5 seconds. During this time the enemy champion & Mordekaiser gain increased Movement speed towards each other and reduced MS when traveling away from each other (+25 MS maybe). During this time the enemy won't take damage unless Mist that Morde emanates touches the Mist attached to the enemy.

I think this fits the Theme and Lore alot better than the current team reliant version. Let me know what you think.

Grist1 votes

Ok so i haven't played in a long time, and in that time they've taken out his previous spinning blade shield and replaced with a link ability i don't quite understand. That being said, i could see the passive being halved or capped while alone, and then doubled and applied to the teammate while linked. This would allow Morde to have more use out of that W and really be a nasty Gank support ability.

I think there should also be a behind the scenes cooldown on how often Morde can generate shielding for himself. I remember how much people hated laning against me back when i played him a lot. Spam E and win early on basically.

Just a thought.

Malicious Metal13 votes

Nobody wants to rely on allies when playing a Juggernaut. Mordekaiser was forced into the position of a Bot laner and everyone hated it until Riot started to make him work in solo lanes.

doombotMECHA1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6dYz89Uj,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-11-01T16:01:05.350+0000)

Nobody wants to rely on allies

I see your point but...ftfy

Nymzo1 votes

I feel like Mordekaiser is basically 2 champions in 1 and this is ruining his gameplay.

On one hand, you get that scary guy/phantom from the Shadow Isles in a massive armor and with a mace.

On the other, you also got the guy who also love to enslave his victim's souls.

If Riot would just get rid of his ult (while also giving Mordekaiser a new kit) and give it to a future champion.

In that way, we could both fix Mordekaiser AND give a new idea for a new champion who'll be more able to use this ult than Mordekaiser.

Malicious Metal2 votes

Both themes are actually intertwined. He is THE dark lord character, an undead Revenant King and former Warlord who marched into battle equipped with Dark Necromantic powers and his own strength as a fierce warrior.

His devastating melee swings are imbued with dark magic, making him even more lethal. This is further shown by the duality of his character, being not only an immortal nigh indestructible Revenant but using those vile powers that were essential to his rebirth to enslave his opponents to his own dark will.

I wrote something along those lines in one of my older threads, going into even more detail.

MrWasjig1 votes

Low Scope Changes? Morde needs to be reworked from scratch, from the ground up. There's no other way to make Morde healthy or easily balanceable

Malicious Metal3 votes

Of course, but his VGU might just take two or three years.

Giving him some low scope changes for the short term would allow him to be in a decent spot until his inevitable rework. Just like the ones Alistar, Soraka and Urgot received.

MrWasjig1 votes

Agreed it certainly wouldn't go amiss. Unforetunately his kit means he has to be assigned to the "Dumpstered until further notice" bin, like Urgot due to how oppressive he can be when allowed to be strong. (And I mean strong on a wide scale, not just strong for the few dedicated mains)

Anotherherolost1 votes

What was your climb like this season? Did you start in gold and climb to D4 or where you higher?

Malicious Metal2 votes

I started in gold and climbed to Dia 4 Failed my Dia III promos this weekend.

I actually started in gold 4, skipped three divisions, got demoted from Plat I twice and failed my Diamond V promos once.

So yeah, was one hell of a climb, using mostly Mordekaiser and Skarner and Nautilus as my backup

Meep Man1 votes

Haha, your back up was another metal man and someone made of ROCK. Classic.

Anotherherolost1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6dYz89Uj,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2016-11-01T16:56:22.985+0000)

I started in gold and climbed to Dia 4 Failed my Dia III promos this weekend.

I actually started in gold 4, skipped three divisions, got demoted from Plat I twice and failed my Diamond V promos once.

So yeah, was one hell of a climb, using mostly Mordekaiser and Skarner and Nautilus as my backup

Jeez, hats off to you. To do that climb dealing with all those Morde bugs must have been hell.

Troy2426211 votes

In your suggestion, Malicious, can we keep E's shield the way it is on live VS monsters? I like an occasional Morde jungle, and I bust out his Infernal skin <3.

Malicious Metal1 votes

His shield works against Monsters the same way as champions anyways.

Troy2426211 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6dYz89Uj,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2016-11-01T18:19:49.032+0000)

His shield works against Monsters the same way as champions anyways.

I meant preserve that rather than weaken/remove it, as you've suggested with the minions. I know there's a distinction between monsters and minions, just wanted to highlight and emphasize it.

I like my metal jungle man :X

Malicious Metal1 votes

Wrong choice of words.

His passive only has a handicap against minions, only generating half the amount. The change would remove shielding from minions entirely while still providing monster shield gen

A fantastic time1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6dYz89Uj,comment-id=000a000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-01T18:48:41.702+0000)

Wrong choice of words.

His passive only has a handicap against minions, only generating half the amount. The change would remove shielding from minions entirely while still providing monster shield gen

So Malicious, this is kinda off topic, but as a Mordekaiser main myself (460k mastery), I'm thinking that he's going to be moderately to absurdly overpowered in this new assassin update. Mordekaiser counters pretty much all assassins in the game, especially those who need to get into melee range, like Talon and Akali. Since these assassins are going to become very popular picks in the near future, it likely means that he'll become THE anti-assassin champion. What do you think about this? Do you agree or disagree?

KoKoboto1 votes

Mordekaiser is strong against Assassin's if he is able to get his damage off but he isn't a counter just because he's on your team, the assassin can aim for other priority targets, while using their mobility to avoid Mordekaiser. You could pick Mordekaiser against an Assasin and shut em down but the gameplay there is pretty much the same as any Assassin that is in a losing lane.

Mordepool1 votes

{quoted}

In your suggestion, Malicious, can we keep E's shield the way it is on live VS monsters? I like an occasional Morde jungle, and I bust out his Infernal skin <3.

That's my schtick.

FattyPainBringer1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6dYz89Uj,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-11-01T15:12:44.340+0000)

His laning phase in particular can be extremely oppressive like pre-rework darius and Garen to some extent while his own rework didn&#039;t really tackled these kinds of game health issues.

I got to this part and just stopped. This guy clearly never played or face a Mordekaiser before he rework. Mordekaiser before his rework owned the top lane. you just didnt simply killed the pre reworked Mordekaiser you sent in 4 people and prayed he didnt kill 2 in the process. Mordekaiser that your fussing about now is just a ghost of what he used to be.

Move on little noob. You have no idea what your talking about.

Malicious Metal13 votes

[{quoted}](name=Great Evil One,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6dYz89Uj,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2016-11-01T19:36:23.556+0000)

I got to this part and just stopped. This guy clearly never played or face a Mordekaiser before he rework.

I got to this part and just stopped.

I mained him since I started playing league in late season 2. 700K mastery points, Diamond

FattyPainBringer1 votes

700k mastery points? ok you played alot of Mordekaiser in the last two years but that doesnt prove you played Mordekaiser before his rework. Mordekaiser reword happend long before the mastery system was introduced. so the fact you dont know that proves you came in after the rework

It's ok to rage that your fav champ isnt op. raging here wont make it better. go eat come chocolate and just enjoy the champ.

I for one used to love to play Katarina but there is so much stun and knocks in the game she isnt as fun to play anymore

realDRdeal13 votes

Dude, you must be new to the forums or are trolling. Anyone who spends any amount of time here knows who MM is. He doesn't just main Morde; he probably knows as much about the character as Morde's designer. Plus he doesn't just whine about the state of Morde like some people do about their mains. He presents problems and backs them up with facts and offers reasonable (and usually not op) suggestions on how these problems may be addressed. In short, he is one of the models of how to be a good member of the community on the forums.

Metal, you sir deserve our respect.

Nuparu1 votes

Did you not read the "in late season 2" part?

FattyPainBringer1 votes

{quoted}

Did you not read the "in late season 2" part?

Ok i've been playing sence alpha and know this is nothing but troll.

now have fun proving me wrong

macromite1 votes

Morde is actually in perfect balance with himself right now. He isn't played because there is no call for anything he does.

I think morde would see a lot more play in a slow siege based meta. Perhaps being a dominant pick.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

if his E wasn't so instantaneous it would make it little less frustrating for melees to deal with. something like vlad E with mord's E would be nice. he also i dont mind if they give him an innate slow. nothing he can spam because it would be a problem but idk something like darius W slow on his E. obviously they'd have to tone down his Q damage a bit to compensate. at least in the early game.

KoKoboto1 votes

I don't think his E is frustrating at all because it's telegraphed (although it's instantaneous you always know he's gonna use it if he walks up to you). I do love the idea of Mordekaiser charging up his E though that actually sounds awesome!! I imagine the cast could be similar to Taric + Sion where he would like hold up his arm charging and deliver a more powerful attack with maybe a bit of crowd control too. At an instant cast it would do less damage and be used for generating shield, at more charge you get more of a vfx and yeah it would do more damage.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

the cd is pretty low for us to be a window to fight him when his W id down. not much time really.

Oakleaf Ranger1 votes

boo

TotalJerk1 votes

Nobody ever seemed to have cared that old Morde could just point and click away a large chunk of percentage health with his ult. Sure this bullshit is also on a couple other champions, namely Trundle, but I don't think that excuses it. I think a good way of making the next Morde more interesting would be revamping the part of the ult before he actually kills the target.

Unrelated but the W passive is easily among the most broken fucking things in the game and no one who actually plays League of Legends should have ever greenlit that. It breaks sooo many fucking rules about the game.

Jaghatai1 votes

Personally I LOVED old Mord - he's the numero uno reason I continued to even play League of Legends

I honestly don't understand the new kit at all or how to make it work in a solo lane.

In a perfect world - I'd like to see Mord be a little more "mace-y" - I would love to see his Q turned into something like Leoric's "March of the Black King" ability http://i.imgur.com/STjn0Ys.gif

I also want his E & W to have more _oomph _- the current particles and sound effects are really weak feeling compared to the original.

KnightOfEloHell1 votes

Where I feel the stats you give are good.. When I'm in a lane with long range and killer poke, where I can't even safely land E on the enemy, I'd have little to no sheild and constantly die. If I was in a lane like that, I'd hardly have time to let w fill the sheild either, Mord would die vefore its up, and with the liw heals on minions.. I don't know how I'd play Mord.

KnightOfEloHell1 votes

Personally, I think all Mord needs is a base Movespeed buff.

Bard R Friday1 votes

How do you feel about this? Passive: Mordekaiser gains a shield equal to double any health he spends on casting abilities which only lasts for a few seconds. W: Only self targeted, does damage over time around Mordekaiser, gains an AD scaling E: Now has a small pull and slow attached to it. R: Gains an AD scaling

DeathBurst1 votes

In defense of the current version, the shield conversion on minions is already severely reduced, and the E is giving a % of max shield independently of damage dealt, so they already tried to tackle the snowball side of things. The W also has a significant CD and is a huge part of Morde's sustain, so if he wastes it on minions, the opponent has a clear window of vulnerability to engage him.

It's not perfect yet, of course, and we can push this further and out-right remove shield conversion on minions. But let's give credit where credit is due, the problems you mention are on Riot's radar and have been addressed.

IMHO, the Ult is a bigger problem than the current version of the shield. You can do shit all game long and just solo-win a game that should have been lost with one good ult on a fed enemy in late game, and I feel like this eat a huge portion of Morde power budget.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Malicious Metal

The one buff Karthus NEEDS
Gameplay126 comments
464
votes
Viktor's Patch 6.9 entry shows that whoever worked on Vik has no idea who he truly is >_>
Gameplay224 comments
414
votes
I have achieved my final form!
Memes & Games62 comments
320
votes
There's actually an ingenious way to solve the whole FQC and Ap CDR crisis
Gameplay223 comments
280
votes
A champion should NEVER be made more clunky/less satisfying to play (Regarding Viktor's PBE changes)
Gameplay140 comments
279
votes
Malphite will be the best Camille counter
Memes & Games60 comments
257
votes