We nerfed Viktor E because there was no lane interaction..

taleofsonata·Feb 27, 2016·48 votes·4,076 views

Meanwhile...

Where the hell is the lane interaction with morgana? W push Push W Push Push? Getting Ganked E walk away Q 3 sec snare getting towerdived R? Morgana has Free Spellvamp sustain and only need mana regen.

At least Viktor has to Q and then AA the enemie champion when he trades, thats a big interaction. A Mage auto attack= interaction. If a Viktor Spam E to wave clear is because he want to interact with other lane such as bottom and top lane. If viktor only farm with E is because he is either camped by the jungler or is in a bad match up.

68 Comments

qetzelFeb 27, 201622 votes

You are completely correct.

Riot nerfed Morgana for the same reason about mid season last year. 5.9 - a significant nerf in the early laning phase. Perhaps she needs more now - the state of the game changes with time, of course - but Riot aren't being hypocritical.

A Miss FortuneFeb 27, 20163 votes

Morgana doesn't need a buff or nerf, she just needs a rework. Most of her kit is garbage aside from her Q which is insanely overloaded. All of Morgana's power is focused into that and her E, which isn't that amazing of an ability anyways due to it's high cooldown and half the use of it is only effective against magic damage.

The Yetii RiderFeb 27, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Miss Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6aifWgoc,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2016-02-27T23:08:12.435+0000)

Morgana doesn't need a buff or nerf, she just needs a rework. Most of her kit is garbage aside from her Q which is insanely overloaded. All of Morgana's power is focused into that and her E, which isn't that amazing of an ability anyways due to it's high cooldown and half the use of it is only effective against magic damage.

That's why it's so good in bot lane though, because marksmen usually can't break the shield early, that means you get the full 5 second CC ignore.

RocketRelmFeb 28, 20161 votes

Thunderlords Decree. So much salt. SO much salt. Thankfully I don't roll support Morgana 'that' much compared to mid morgana.

Spaceman5pffFeb 27, 201613 votes

I wouldnt call snare + dmg "overloaded" By that logic lux q is 2x as overloaded.

Now, A passive that gives you double crit chance, and a shield. THAT is overloaded

AnidanFeb 27, 201611 votes

Her Q isn't overloaded, it just holds a lot of her apparent power budget. That's not overloaded, that's just potentially overly strong.

A Miss FortuneFeb 28, 20162 votes

Her Q is overloaded because it consumes almost all of Morgana's power budget. High damage, high ranged, extremely strong snare, with the most broken hitbox into the game. Yeah, it's at least a little bit too much for one ability. It doesn't help that it naturally gives her a chunk of her health back due to her passive.

VeraskaFeb 28, 201611 votes

Overloaded doesn't mean strong it means it does a lot of stuff, and its ussually used when talking about entire kits, like Lee sin, he has 7 abilities and some of them (like his R) do multiple things. That's overloaded. Morganas snare is strong but it doesn't do an unreasonable amount of extra stuff

A Miss FortuneFeb 28, 20161 votes

Yes I'm aware of what overloaded means. I label Morgana's Q as overloaded because of the immense power it has while consuming nearly all of Morgana's power budget. If you deleted her Q you might as well delete her.

VeraskaFeb 28, 20166 votes

You would still need a different term I think, and I don't think that's necessarily true, she still has her E which I'd incredibly powerful and her W is the core of her laning phase, and everyone thinks her ult is bad but I think it's really good. Her Q is definitely the foundation of her combat pattern As her only other combat spell is W and if you can't land Q then your W won't do damage.

But morg is a lot more then her damage output, it's why she's plated as support so much

A Miss FortuneFeb 28, 20161 votes

Morgana is more than just a damage output that is true, but she's nothing more than a Q bot either.

Remlap1223Feb 28, 20161 votes

That's incredibly disingenuous. That's like me saying Gangplank is nothing more than a CC removal bot because it's his most powerful and iconic ability.

EcchiOtakuTMFeb 27, 20162 votes

Garbage? CC immunity with magic damage blocked, a heavy team stun, and an AoE that does good damage which increases the more HP the target is missing per tick? Only thing bad about her is her passive.

A Miss FortuneFeb 28, 20161 votes

I would probably consider her passive better than both her W and Ult.

Her ultimate is clunky and while it does an okay amount of damage it's useless more because it requires a squishy and immobile mage to throw herself in the middle of a teamfight to use it.

Her W is easily the worst part of her kit simply due to it requiring the enemy to stay in the pool for 5 seconds straight to receive the full damage. 5 seconds is as long as some teamfights in this meta. Even if Morgana lands her binding she's only going to be able to use 3/5 of the pool.

As for her E, her E is mostly fine. However there's a ton of complaints that because of her E Morgana is able to limit the interaction between her and the enemy team specifically during the laning phase. Ganking her is impossible, and it's hard for most people to all-in her. Regardless of if she's Top, Mid, or Support, she dictates when and where fights happen because she suddenly eliminates CC from the game.

EcchiOtakuTMFeb 28, 20164 votes

Her ulti isn't clunky,just hourglass and it's fine always been that way so it has counterplay while still having it's enormous effect. And morg is never squishy, she's a fairly tanky champ just not direct tank.

Her W could definitely be reworked but currently still like it because of it's waveclear and zoning potential with the amount of utility she carries even without getting the full duration, which you easily get when ulti'ing in a team.

Yep her E is really bs, especially if you can't burst it down with a low cost skill, if she were to ever get reworked i'd be happier if it blocked the first CC....

RocketRelmFeb 28, 20162 votes

Her W is actually, in my opinion, the most underrated part of her kit. It's actually 'absurdly' strong and a workhorse damage output. Saying "oh somebody took only 60% of it's damage output that's worthless" tells me "I haven't actually read how MUCH DAMAGE this thing does". Regardless, during a lvl 6 flash all in you can guarantee the enemy staying under it for all 10 ticks with a lvl 1 snare (no, i'm serious here, though you can't just randomly fling spells you need to cast everything with very precise timing).

Her ultimate… while hard to truly hit on people, even a 2 person ult or a peel ult is crazy powerful. I don't think there's much debate that her ultimate has a wide variety of uses and is in the top 20% of ultimates in the game.

I don't think she's in need of nerfs in her current state, however. She has several exploitable weaknesses, notably a very hard time capitalizing on an enemy's low hp for an all in, and very limited capacity to get to the Backline of a teamfight.

CosnirakFeb 28, 20162 votes

The irony is that they didn't nerf it to mess with mid Morgana, they did it to weaken support Morgana's early game easy damage. Mid Morg used to be able to bully melee champions that actually had to auto attack to last hit and anyone dumb enough to just stand in her W. Now it just tickles.

MunchCrunchLunchFeb 28, 20161 votes

she has one of the highest winrates in mid lane and viktor had a fairly low one

RocketRelmFeb 28, 20161 votes

Honestly, I don't think she needs more nerfs, she's just surged back to playability thanks to the mana buffs. That 0.5 mana regen per second is truly the unsung hero and the way her mana regen improved going into season 6 by 'itself' made her strong in mid, between masteries, items, and base buffs.

QueenAquaFeb 28, 20161 votes

They nerfed her then to nerf supp Morg, not mid Morg. Mid Morg barely felt the impact of that nerf. Tho i honestly feel Morg is fine where she is, I can understand ppl's frustration to the Vik reason for being nerfed. BS they would say lack of interaction as a reason to nerf him, but not other champs with the same problem. I feel like the reason they gave isn't the real reason at all.

AbyssphereFeb 27, 201613 votes

Morgana got her W nerfed for being too uninteractive in mid lane just last year. If anything Viktor being nerfed for being uninteractive is just making the Morgana nerf from last year fair.

JasiwelFeb 27, 20163 votes

While I think Viktor needs some form of compensation for his nerfing (maybe reduce the cost of E levels 2/3/4/5 by 5?), I can agree with this sentiment. Just like Ahri's Charm change put it in line with other non-displacement CCs, Viktor's E nerf did put it in line with other waveclearing abilities.

Illâoi Evê SiônFeb 27, 20166 votes

Morgana needs to stall the minions to stay in the pool and it takes a few seconds for them to die. Viktor just walks up to the still-walking minion wave and uses E to clear them all.

MelledoneusFeb 27, 20165 votes

In my opinion, the nerf wasn't justified. If this is in preparation for the mage update, then it should have come out then.

LadyRenlyFeb 27, 20164 votes

If Viktor E is "uninteractive", what about Annie? She can just farm as long as she wants with Q

OneSmoothDudeFeb 28, 20161 votes

Not without burning (heh) her passive. This creates "windows of opportunity" for the opposing laner.

RikariFeb 29, 20161 votes

yeah she can't burst you down when thats gone

La BarbotteFeb 27, 20163 votes

Lulu meanwhile in residentsleeper lane, she make the whole game have no interaction

AnidanFeb 27, 20162 votes

She's obnoxious to play against, but she's not non-interactive. There is a pretty big difference. Morgana could play the entire laning phase without ever doing anything to the laner without losing anything significant if she so chose, but if Lulu wants to do much she actually does want to interact with the enemy laner, to make their life hell if nothing else. Just because they make it hard for you to retaliate while beating your face in does not mean they're non-interactive, it just means they're kiting you.

La BarbotteFeb 28, 20161 votes

lulu will only famr and tell you nope when you go on her and make you lose half your hp, then shes gonna farm again, same as morg

AbyssphereFeb 28, 20161 votes

{quoted}

lulu will only famr and tell you nope when you go on her and make you lose half your hp, then shes gonna farm again, same as morg

Not at all true. If she's struggling then obviously she will play the lane more passively but I've found Lulu to be highly interactive, if anything so interactive that it gets annoying. She never seems to stop trying to harass you.

RikariFeb 27, 20163 votes

Morg has already been nerfed a lot, to the point where shes considered a support,give her a break.

Vistha KaiFeb 28, 20161 votes

She was nerfed as a result of becoming support first and foremost.

Not only that, but this "nerfed a lot" is quite an overstatement too.

jjookkeerrFeb 28, 20161 votes

no, she becomes a support because the nerfs pushed her out of mid lane and on bot tank sups are dominating since ever and she can hold them

Vistha KaiFeb 28, 20162 votes

You have no idea then.

V5.9: Tormented Soil Damage reduced to 8 / 16 / 24 / 32 / 40 from 12 / 19 / 26 / 33 / 40.

V4.14: Black Shield Base shield health reduced to 70 / 140 / 210 / 280 / 350 from 95 / 160 / 225 / 290 / 355. Soul Shackles Base magic damage reduced to 150 / 225 / 300 from 175 / 250 / 325. Total possible magic damage per target reduced to 300 / 450 / 600 from 350 / 500 / 650.

4.14 That was like a YEAR after Morgana became exclusively a support in LCS.

Old Man TeetoFeb 28, 20163 votes

The real reason Viktor lost some of his wave clear is simple.

He has REALLY good other tools.

This isn't Ziggs, or Xerath who really need to keep their range. Viktor can scrap close range with Q, and has a strong mix of CC and AoE Burst. Being able to also just wave clear if his team or he is ever behind made him too safe for such a flexible pick.

Morganna is a poor lane fighter since if she ever misses Q she can't reliably get damage in with W. I remember when Sivir was used as a lane counter for her in Season 1 since she could out shove, spell shield any bindings and ignore Morganna's E.

And that was when Morgana was typically picked or banned.

Sneakyy XDFeb 27, 20162 votes

While nerfing Viktor is idiotic at best, he is actually pretty good in team fights, where Morgana is horrendous.

taleofsonataFeb 27, 201616 votes

Morgana Teamfight is one of the best, Q Lock down a target, R W combo on a team which does insane amount of damage, E on you or carry to avoid them getting burst? 1 Bad position of viktor can lead to his whole team death.

Slamurai JackFeb 27, 20162 votes

The answer to that question is that nobody plays Morg mid in LCS, but they do play Viktor. So there you go. Riot has consistently shown a willingness to just ignore problematic gameplay until it hits the spotlight, typically in LCS.

TheLambinatorFeb 27, 20163 votes

Since about 3 years ago when the game first got really big and hit the spotlight, that is when the game became unbalance. the entire game is nerfs and buffs for the pros, not for the 99% of us that are playing the "real" League of Legends. LCS isnt "real" league.

MazariamontiFeb 27, 20162 votes

Lol Morgana has to hold the wave in place with her body to clear caster minions even with a decent amount of ap. Anivia and Malzahar are WAY worse than Morgana is in that respect. And if we're talking uninteractive, how about pointing a finger at singed, who has no real playstyle beyond going out of his way to not fight you.

SasogwaFeb 28, 20162 votes

Sorry but the nerf to morgana's W has been done a WHILE ago already. Morgana used to be a common midlaner (well tbh slightly broken) that just spammed W and cleared waves; but the damage has been handily nerfed to prevent her from autopushing to tower and winning/getting even in lane by default.

blfUvZ8YbuFeb 27, 20161 votes

Azir syndrome.

Riot hates from Azir and Viktor

DRECKlessFeb 28, 20161 votes

my two mains ): while lux zed and all the other cheese remains untouched

ForgiveColourFeb 27, 20161 votes

Probably because morgana can't 100-0 your team from fow instantly by pressing 2 buttons and need a zhonya before she gets dicked on?

WutsKrakenFeb 28, 20161 votes

Xerath sup

DengedenFeb 28, 20161 votes

Are - you - serious? Morg draintanks the wave, Victor instaclears it.

RocketRelmFeb 28, 20161 votes

I think the difference is that Morgana clears the 'wave' with this spell. Viktor clears the wave AND pokes the sh*t out of the enemy with his E. If Morgana 'pokes' with W it'll barely do more than tickle.

There's a difference between no lane interaction when playing pure defense, and no lane interaction WHILE hurting your enemy laner at the same time.

Also, Morgana has a pitiful 450 Autoattack range. Ranged Mages such as Lux can 'trade stance' with her like a Caitlyn on a 550 range adc, since Morgana only gets her 'op wave clear' at lvls 5-7ish.

TeCoolMageFeb 28, 20161 votes

Morgana is fine, she has to time her E while the enemy is using CC, because preemptively shielding means they can just wait it out.

Her Q is something you dodge, Viktor's Q is point and click.

On the other hand, Viktor's W and R have huge enemy interaction, but Morgana's W and R are lacking when Morgana gets Zhonya's.

They're both good.

Chuck CharlesFeb 28, 20161 votes

morgana mid is the bane of my existence as a Lux main. and any champion really.

even AD assasin's aren't the best into her as she WANTS to build both Zhonya's/Rod of Ages ANYWAY.

morg just presses W, throws out a Q. whether it hits or not doesn't even matter.

then she walks away and repeats. once she gets rod of ages, a decently stacked tear, or a chalice the lane phase is basically over for you and you can do nothing but farm under tower if the morg is smart.

the only upside to this is that Morgana has VERY little kill pressure, and way less impact on the game than most mids. BUT she will prevent you from hard carrying most of the time. in solo Q if you know you are duoing with good teammates, just play morg mid. if are against a morg mid you better your team doesn't feed like monsters early because you are going to be meh at best for awhile. you will be farmed and she will be, but you need so much to deal with her endless wave clear so she doesn't roam.

You need raw mana, mana regen, and sustain as she will harass you with Q's and hit one occasionally. even if you can dodge all the Q's and don't need sustain the amount of raw mana and mana regen you need is absolutely disgusting.

morgana mid is legit cancer and is a champion that requires no skill to play in that role.