why is ludens so bad....

Very Hard Engage··6 votes·1,825 views

simply put its kept on a lowish power budget because MS is a powerful stat. which i get. but as it stands now the item is never bought solely because of its price. you build a large rod, you back with a lot of gold, you see you can buy AA, ludens, or rylais, now of the 3 which would you pick....

rylais every time. it simply gives better combat stats or utility. the MS on ludens isn't chosen nearly as often as is the health or slow.

ludens simply activates too infrequently to be seen as anything other than 100ap 10%ms, rylais is just all around more effective in terms of combat stats its better to remove 40% from the enemy than buff yourself by 10%.

so in my opinion theres only 3 options.

1 is to lower the cost of the item. 2 is to increase the raw ap the item gives 3 is to change the active into more single target burst or activate more often.

whichever is deemed appropriate.

in my opinion i would lean towards option number 2 as people should be building ludens for better damage dealing capabilities, but that also raises the concern of the effect just not being strong enough so it is a toss up overall.

i would even be ok with a higher cost so long as it gave even more ap and would do its job in terms of damage output.

edit - included cost analysis.

Gold Value 100 ability power = 2175 Gold 10% movement speed = 395 Gold Total Gold Value = 2570 Gold

Gold Efficiency Luden's Echo item.png Luden's Echo is 80.31% gold efficient, without ECHO. For the item to be gold efficient, its passive must be worth at least 630 Gold

28 Comments

Meep Man2 votes

It's because it's a pure damage item and that has fallen out of favor for AP as of late. item 3089 item 3285 item 3100 They have all kind of fallen out of favor for now, especially the first two. Pure damage just isn't good enough right now unless you either have some insane defensive cool down or huge range.

BakedLotion2 votes

I rush it on everyone lmao. Fuck Rylais. Pussy shit.

Linna Excel1 votes

Luden's is pretty good on ahri. I think it'd be good on Orianna as well if she can find a spot for it.

CrimsonCobra31 votes

Since Luden's is an offensive option, I could see increasing the AP ratio on it's passive (and perhaps increasing the frequency) as a viable option for tuning it up. However, since it isn't really an issue of Luden's being bad as much as it not being better than the competition, I'd say that keeping it balanced could be a serious difficulty.

There's also the option of adding another stat, such as mana, CDR, or arbitrary magic pen, to make it more desirable. But that's an entirely new train of thought that comes with it's own balance issues.

Handy Sandy 1 votes

Luden's is a risky but a good item if you don't need anymore defense. It's not worthless though.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

the only champ that buys ludens consistently is katarina. thats really it

Catastrop1 votes

Not really, Ahri's rush it first item.

nm10101 votes

I thought she went protobelt now?

MunchCrunchLunch3 votes

i never seen one with protobelt. it cancels her ult and its too slow for her usual combos

nm10101 votes

Not sure what you mean by "cancels" as she can use her ult just fine with it and the shotgun protobelt is op.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQQLVGjB5b4

Very Hard Engage2 votes

im sure it had nothing to do with her being 3 levels up and items/gold not shown.

nm10101 votes

The specific video is to show that it doesn't "cancel" her ult.

That being said a 94.87% gold efficient item that gives 213 (+.77 ap) burst at level 6 is clearly better than Luden's echo rush that is 80.71% gold efficient (and costs 700g more) and gives 100 (+.1 ap) burst with no level scaling.

Yes proto has a longer cd but you can clearly see the burst it gives can make all ins incredibly easy on top of being easier to purchase earlier + more efficient in an item slot.

MunchCrunchLunch2 votes

its too slow for her combo. if she buys protoblelt. IT WILL BE TOO OBVIOUS SHES GOING TO USE IT BEFORE SHE ULTS BECAUSE IT CANCELS HER ULTIMATE AS IT IS A DISPLACEMENT

GET IT?

nm10101 votes

No I don't, its too slow? what the tenth of a second cast time? Does it matter if the enemy knows that she is going to use it? I mean you act as if they can stop her from r e q w proto r r.

Catastrop1 votes

Protobelt is too slow for her combos, it'd too much of a hinderance than anything on Ahri tbh.

nm10101 votes

Then you are just doing it wrong quite frankly, you r eqw (all of these can animation cancel each other I have learned since yesterday) protobelt rr. the combo not including the last 2 r's takes about .5 seconds, well below even rank 1 e cc.

Or you are saying use the protobelt to start the combo, which is just a silly thing to say xD Protobelt has one the highest base damages in the game if you shotgun it. That is why people buy it, very rarely is the mobility more than an added benefit.

Very Hard Engage1 votes

its morello -> sometimes ludens if you need more damage. but usually a large rod and she will decide from there what she needs.

if im snowballing on ahri ill build it, if im pretty even and i need to be a team player ill get rylais.

Catastrop1 votes

The really seasoned Ahri players get it first time pretty much all the time.

Very Hard Engage1 votes

http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/2648#matches

pobelter doesnt =/

I've always prefered dorans -> morello -> large rod or double dorans -> abyssal -> morello if its a violent matchup

and if i need to kite i build rylais.

ludens just isn't an option when its so horribly inefficient.

faker doesn't either.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhT8RrLlKd0

Celestial Lion121 votes

lux ahri and leblanc still build it

ƒoes1 votes

I just noticed that when Luden's first came out up until the Mage Update, I build it as a second or third item every single game (that was long enough) without fail.

After the Mage Update, I've found that it basically just a damage item rather than the much more necessary utility (i.e. Rylai's, RoA, etc.). This really should be fixed, utility is nice and all but it shouldn't be more favorable than damage in a SHOCK! fighting game.

ShatteredSkys1 votes

I like to rush it on Ahri and Diana when I want to go pure Assassin. AP assassin that abuse Ludens aren't really meta right now so their core item won't see play.

WalkingInACircle1 votes

It's mostly a poke item, it should still be good on long range mages like Lux. But yeah, it's not strong.

TheHurricaneGamr1 votes

I feel like if they increased the AP to 120 and/or buffed the AP ratio and made the base scale with level, it would be in a good spot.

Just Blame Jenny1 votes

It's still solid on Annie.

Luden's grants waveclear and better movement speed (i.e. faster roams). I think it's best as an item to purchase when you're getting ahead so you can rotate more often to pressure other lanes.

Chalizard2 votes

Every ap item is solid on her.

Chalizard1 votes

Annie, Ahri, Orianna, Lebronze, Ziggs, Kata, Xerath, lightning bard, veigar, tf I guess there are some champions that found echo really good aspecially that you can buy it on almost every mage and it will be good.

Wolfram Oxford1 votes

The problem isn't that it is bad, it is that there are a lot stronger and overpowered options, such as protobelt, Rylai's, Zhonya's

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