AI bots still need work

Linna Excel·Aug 28, 2014·10 votes·3,567 views

TL/DR the newer, better bots are still bad.

The other day I picked jinx for a little 1v2 10 minute CS bot training with at least 2 intermediate bots on the other team (lux and cait). I wanted to try that so I could get better at last hitting when under a little pressure. For grins after the ten minutes I wanted to see how long I could hold out. Somehow I bloody won the game and my game needs a ton of work.

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1508285649/49776330

Bots are a little too cowardly around turrets and don't know how to clear the rear minion waves if they are within a turret's reach... even the ranged champs. They also have more trouble staying grouped than the people in my MMR.

20 Comments

RiotSargonasAug 28, 201414 votes

http://i.imgur.com/g5MLF5p.jpg

Do you want Doom Bots? Because THAT'S how you get Doom Bots!

CatbatAug 28, 20142 votes

We want to play as doom bots! XD

RiotSargonasAug 28, 20149 votes

Nice try... you're gonna have to be sneakier than that to ask for U.R.F. mode and get away with it. ;)

Deep Terror NamiAug 28, 20145 votes

It would be ultra awesome to play as Doom champions. New and recurring popular modes always rapidly increases the player base. Whoever thinks it doesn't should be fired!

PikmintsAug 28, 20143 votes

Riot stated before that the idea of playing as doom bots would be incredibly odd, as we would either need to pick from the tiny pool of champs that had the appropriate reprogramming done, or they could reprogram more/all champs, which would take up way too much time and effort (especially for the less flashy, melee characters). Would be fun if it could be done right, but I think doing it right would require far too much.

CatbatAug 29, 20142 votes

but... but... I don't want urf xD I want to be final boss viegar DOOM BOT! >:D "MY POWER LEVEL IS OVER 9000!"

AthrawesAug 29, 20141 votes

I'd like to have doom bots back (at least for custom games) ^^ especially Lux or Morganna Doom Bots were great to train your reflexes and skillshot predictions ;)

Unfortunately, the current intermediate bots are kinda easy if you've worked out their issues (splitpushing ftw!), and it's no problem at all to go 1v5 against most beginner bot team comps unless they stunlock you to your grave (but that only happens if they aren't busy running, so...).

Compared to that the doom bots were a great challenge, even if it's only because they were OP as fuck ^^ Yes, they have the same issues that intermediate bots have, but unless you get a wombo combo team and dragonbait them it's hard to exploit the issues (1 or 2 doom bots are enough to completely stop a splitpush, you can't say that for intermediate bots. Now, if their responses to splitpushing/backdooring were to improve...)

TrylobyteAug 28, 20146 votes

I'm primarily a co-op vs. AI player, so I have a lot of insights into bots and their various tricks. Here are some bigger ones.

Bots are too cautious. They retreat too early and too far, making them very easy to zone out of CS range. This doesn't really matter to intermediate bots with their insane gold income, but it makes beginner bots even more useless once you figure this out. This continues late-game - Just yesterday I had Ryze Bot turn and run from my dragon-Shyvana when he had 400 HP left... and I had less than fifty. He could have autoattacked me once and killed me, but instead he tried to retreat and I wound up killing him, to the utter disbelief of the two teammates watching me do this. It also means if you're in a big teamfight and you kill one or two bots the others will immediately try to run away, letting you ace them easily.
Bots and brush have a seriously messed-up relationship. They totally ignore brush unless there's a ward in it, unless there's a player in that brush in which case they automatically know and go ward it, unless they don't have a ward in which case they still ignore it. This makes sweeper trinkets the best thing in the world for picking up early kills on bots. I have observed some bots using skillshots to check brush recently, which is an improvement, but some bots (Lux especially) still all too often know exactly where you are in the brush and will perfectly combo you without vision.
Bots will overreact to some things but underreact to others. Most bot games are easily won by split-pushing because bots often ignore it when they're pushing hard themselves. They don't react at all to dragon or baron. When they're not pushing, they overreact to towers being attacked, often sending 2-3 bots down to go stop a one-man push, which lets another lane pick up a free tower. They also overreact to burst damage; see #1.
Bots just make bad decisions. This is obviously a limitation of the AI, but bots will often choose to do questionable things like leave their squishies to lane alone or face-check bushes they know have a lot of people in them when someone sweeps their ward out of it. They'll often waste massive AoE ultimates with long cooldowns to kill one person (Galio, Amumu) or tower-dive someone they can't kill (Xin, Shen).

That said, there are some things bots are actually pretty good at compared to the general playerbase, things I do give Riot some kudos for:

Bots dodge like pros, when they decide to. Landing a Thresh hook, Dark Binding, or Blitz grab against a dodge-happy bot is very, very difficult. Oddly, though, sometimes they just seem to stop dodging altogether and you'll land everything from then on.
Bots are good at landing skillshots. I've seen Blitz Bot land Fakeresque pulls through a crowded teamfight to yank a wounded ADC back into the midst of it and I've seen Lucian Bot consistently land every shot of The Culling against low-mobility teammates.
Bot CC management is Challenger level. They never fail to get the most out of their CC abilities and a group of bots can easily lock someone down for a rage-inducingly long time. If I see a plat or diamond player in a co-op game, the perfect CC chain is often what finally kills them.
Bots combo superhumanly fast. This is what makes almost every mid-lane bot hazardous. Ryze, Annie, Cassiopeia, and especially Brand Bot are almost always more dangerous than the average player because once they land their CC they will proceed to land everything else they have in a fraction of a second then back off. Along this line, Shen, Zilean, and Kayle Bot will almost always get their 'just in time' ults off, much to the frustration of Darius.

Cloud PotatoAug 28, 20142 votes

Bots are too cautious.

They were positively suicidal before. A middle ground really needs to be reached; I've gotten far too many kills because AI try to run instead of killing me.

Bots and brush have a seriously messed-up relationship.

There's nothing I hate more than trying to gank through tribush and having a bot in lane walk over to place a ward in it. Even worse is throwing out skillshots before warding. Also, unrelated but you can see enemy Trinket wards dying even if you don't have true vision of them.

Bots will overreact to some things but underreact to others. Most bot games are easily won by split-pushing because bots often ignore it when they're pushing hard themselves.

Split pushing used to be a dinner bell for them almost regardless of circumstance. The new system is... slightly better? I don't know.

Bots just make bad decisions.

I remember before the AI update I could drop a Wukong clone in a deathball and burn several ultimates. It was always good fun. Now bots don't fall for the clone at all, which sucks. Anyway, they sure do love their kill secures. Also the tower diving problem isn't as bad as before, when I could consistently score double kills early on in a 1v2 top lane. Bots don't tend to follow through with tower dives if they do do them, though.

Bots dodge like pros, when they decide to.

And sometimes they fail. Just like real players!

Bots are good at landing skillshots.

Bot CC management is Challenger level.

Bots combo superhumanly fast.

I hate all of these things. Alistar bot, Amumu bot, Blitzcrank bot and Mundo bot are all always really annoying to face. I'd like to see more newer champions get added to the rotation. Also, it might just be my luck but I get non-ADC bot lanes fairly often. Pretty surprising to me.

On a final note, bots with Flash make me so happy. They flub using it a lot, and it's 1000x less annoying than Exhaust. Oh, and Cass bot. She can go screw herself.

DownfallAug 28, 20143 votes

The bots will always need work, you cannot even begin to realize how complex it would be to make a bot that behaves like a human.

ZarkkastAug 28, 20143 votes

I know that the games are different, despite being in a similar style, but if we take Dota 2, their bots are insanely harder than our bots. They're a lot harder than Doom Bots were and they don't even have those kind of cheats. Riot could take some tips.

Arby099Aug 28, 20141 votes

Valve was responsible for Alyx Vance, they kind of have a leg up in the AI department.

Linna ExcelAug 28, 20142 votes

Well, didn't a computer pass the first turing test this year?

For example, if you've got ranged poke, you can hit minions who are under the protection of a tower.

tsm killuaAug 28, 20141 votes

true

Penguin EclipseAug 28, 20141 votes

I found their bot rework a while back to be an improvement for about 3 games. Now I when I play against bots I feel they have actually gotten a lot worse.

I don't know much about how to make AI's, but I know DOTA2 bots feel considerably more difficult.

CatbatAug 29, 20141 votes

dota's AI isn't better, they just get increased gold per second from what I heard :/

PtarlorrAug 28, 20141 votes

I do like the fact the bots try and keep themselves alive. If you want to get kills, you need to work a little harder. And Jax Bot ward hops are OP. No, they don't play like humans, but they react more realistically.

tsm killuaAug 28, 20141 votes

I think Doom bots should be brought back normal bots are too stupid.

SluicewayAug 28, 20141 votes

I think the intermidate bots are in a good place; however, I think it is also time that Riot added a new tier or two of AI, [advanced and insane, for example, and make doom bots the highest tier, maybe :)]. But, if they were to do this, does that mean they would have to add matchmaking (or tighten it up, at least, as I currently find myself matched with anyone from lv 5 new players (smurfs excluded) to gold and above players) to AI games?

I am already in favor of team builder for AI games, and I don't think matchmaking is offhand a terrible idea (I find it more frustrating to play with the gold+ players, speaking for myself, as they call it comp stomp and proceed to 1v5 the ai and win, and I don't see the point of the rest of the team leaving the fountain in those cases).

KinjishiAug 28, 20141 votes

Personally, from having played for about 3 weeks - the difference between Intro and Beginner bots seems really great. It is more like Intro bots are too easy and Beginner Bots are Medium-Hard difficulty.