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If they were to rework Mundo, what direction should they take him?

Ralanr··2 votes·524 views

Currently as it stands, Mundo's primary playstyle is building to be this big unkillable asshole and hope the enemy doesn't build grievous wounds. His biggest strength is his biggest weakness and it's what keeps him from actually being good in league today (especially considering that Mundo is one of those stat ball champions that just isn't fair to fight once they get rolling. Not to mention the problem in general with sustain champions).

We can't just outright remove GW (I mean, maybe we can but it'd take more than a Mundo rework to justify it) nor can we just give him immunity because it's the main way of playing against him (cause if he's healing well enough, not even kiting is enough).

I think a primary goal of a Mundo rework would be to gate his sustain through player interaction like other juggernauts such as Darius and Illaoi. The problem here is that with Mundo, regeneration is pretty much what defines him while the other two champions have healing to help them accomplish their main jobs. Darius needs to land his Q if he wants to survive in teamfights long enough to get his ult off for example, Mundo just passively wants to live long enough to outlast people.

Now granted, outlasting people can be a playstyle, but some champions do it with more interaction. Let's take Warwick for example: Warwick has very good sustain, but it is held back by at least two barriers: he has to be at half health for his autos to heal, and he needs to be fighting you to gain health.

How many times have you seen Mundo just run away with his ult, only to come back near full without anything you can do? I've seen it plenty and it makes fighting him incredibly frustrating.

Mundo's kit is very uninteractive imo. His W is just a health costing sunfire cape, his passive will keep healing him no matter what, and his ult is more suited for temporary retreat.

Honestly I don't know if that's ok for Mundo. But he's not a character who is allowed to stay meta for long regardless.

So personally I see two directions they can take Mundo. They're more big picture ideas so sorry for lack of details.

Option 1: make him an actual tank. Give him some hard CC and more engage/peel centric abilities. Personally I'm kinda against this idea as it may clash with how people who play Mundo use Mundo. He's not a protector, and giving him some hard CC may lead to lowering his damage. I'm not sure people want Mundo to be an actual tank, but I wouldn't be completely bothered if he was.

Option 2: keep him as a sustained damage juggernaut, but make his sustain more gated by combat than making it passive. Riot should probably try and encourage Mundo to fight more and stay in the fight in order to gain the benefits of his sustain, rather than just mainly gaining benefits when having enough items to just stand still and not die.

I'm not a Mundo main. I only really played Mundo last night against a team that didn't build much GW and was laughing my ass off at how dumb I ended up becoming. I walked away from most of their team on two separate occasions after killing their squishy carry because my sustain (and once because of a lucky blast cone) kept me alive as I ran.

Wow I rambled. Here's a TLDR.

TL:DR, what should Riot do with Mundo if they were to rework him?

19 Comments

DeathBurst2 votes

So personally I see two directions they can take Mundo. They're more big picture ideas so sorry for lack of details.

Don't be sorry. That's much more useful than posts that try to give an exact rundown of a whole kit with precise numbers. THAT is useless, don't bother with numbers for a paper kit.

I'm not sure how making him a real Tank is an option to solve his sustain problem, though. Even if Mundo wants to output CC instead of damage, if his durability is tied to un-interactive heal over time, that still causes the same problems. Imagine Sion with a heal over time instead of his shield. Doesn't work.

But anyway, I don't think they should make him a Tank regardless. He is currently a Juggernaut and should remain so. So the question is, how do you make his sustain interactive. At a high-level, by making it conditional to him actually dealing damage, but that's not really helpful, it's simply how all (good*) Juggernauts sustain work: Darius/Yorick/Nasus/Illaoi need to hit their Q, Morde has his shield conversion mechanism, Trundle has heal when an enemy dies, etc.

So in more details, what could we do with Mundo? I like that his sustain is currently more linear than other Juggernauts (except Olaf), and I think we should try to preserve that. A very simple solution would be to make his ult tick only if he keeps doing damage, otherwise it stops ("healing comes from excitement and sadism"). Another possibility would be to make a charge system, and you collect charges by dealing damage ("Mundo collects 'ingredients' for medicine"). In fact, the problem is more making it feel unique and interesting and thematic, and not "yet another Darius clone", but I think that the gameplay mechanics we need already exist.

*.(What "bad" Juggernauts don't follow this pattern: Shyv, which I honestly think is misclassified as a Diver; Garen, which people have suggested similar changes before for the same reasons; and Volibear, which is saved by the fact that he doesn't control his sustain, and is not so far in the list of future reworks anyway.)

Urgot doggy dogg1 votes

Probabily he shouldn't even be a tank but someone like darius jarvan

Ralanr1 votes

That's what he currently is anyway. A juggernaut. It's probably better that Riot pushes that direction.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Urgot doggy dogg,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6JrMMAMX,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-06-02T13:43:20.314+0000)

Probabily he shouldn't even be a tank but someone like darius jarvan

Mundo isn't a tank, and he IS a juggernaut like Darius.

Also Jarvan isn't a juggernaut, he is a diver.

Penns1 votes

A has-counterplay - direction imo lel

Ralanr2 votes

If this is a jab at my poor writing, I apologize.

If not, what do you mean? I may be misreading you.

Penns1 votes

Poor writing? o I meant they should take him in a direction where they give him counterplay other than begging your adc to buy a 800 gold item or doing it yourself and hoping its enough.

Ralanr1 votes

Ah. Yeah I didn't get that from your post.

dolce de leche1 votes

Personally I believe that if rito rly were to look into him the main focus should be on what s5 mundo was, pre nerds or even pre e buffs. Mundo used to be a super tank, who had a 2way play style of a perma slowing Kenyan health shredding beast, if fed, or an unkillable constant poke champ for a safer side. Of course he would still be hard countered by % health dmg and grevious wounds, as well as enough hard cc, but his main strengths are tankiness, regen, permaslows/poke, and wave clear. After all mundo is meant to be strait forward at first glance, but skill must still be required to get those powerful strengths, as they can be game ending

Ralanr1 votes

That wouldn't make Mundo any less frustrating to fight against. If anything, that just amplifies his problems.

dolce de leche1 votes

tbh fighting against Mundo without buying or picking to counter shouldn't be fun, he should be able to duel with champs, after all, even in team fights Mundo is only effective if your opponents don't get that you'll just focus on one champ, then switch onto anyone trying to escape, not really dealing aoe, hard cc, or any burst, so here you go for ideal mundo:

Pros:

  • Lots of health and health regen
  • Potential permaslow
  • Sustained dmg and nice poke
  • Some waveclear and movespeed

Cons:

  • No hard cc
  • No burst
  • Minimal aoe
  • Countered by %health dmg, hard cc, high hard mobility, and gw
  • No hard(dash, blink, teleport) mobility
  • Very small range outside of one skillshot(med range)

Overall just fighting Mundo should end in a slow and painful death, as long as he hits his cleavers, and you haven't picked or built to counter him, and this isn't unfair, it's just a core strength of a champ

Ralanr1 votes

But it's not fun for him if you do buy the item.

Nick Da Chip1 votes

Mundo is pretty iconic. If he was changed to much I think it would upset a lot of people. I always thought mundo was fine. Whenever he was op I never actually had a problem against him, it's just no one would build executioner calling or magic resist, so when he was in a good spot he seemed op to everyone. I also play a lot of mundo so perhaps having an idea of how to play against him helped.

I like the idea of mundo being a hyper meatshield though, going where he pleases.

Big Lincoln1 votes

i'd say you could make him more reliant on managing his health pool, with more severe costs for doing it poorly. 'Regen monster' is Mundo's whole character and that should stay, but it should be more conditional, there needs to be something to work towards that also feels good for Mundo

Of his kit, the only things I think need to stay similar are his Q and his ult. Passive, W and E are IMO expendable

Ralanr1 votes

His Q would definitely stay. Not sure about his ult as is though.

DeathBurst1 votes

I think his passive could be removed entirely and his R transformed into a basic ability with some added condition to work, a bit like what they did for Galio's old R.

E is decent but can be changed if needed.

W is un-exciting as fuck, but interestingly is one of the very last anti-CC mechanism on a Juggernaut. It would probably be the first thing to be cut if they had to rework Mundo. "It's important to be able to peel Juggernauts", they said. still salty about Garen tenacity and MS buff duration

And yes, Q has to stay, in one form or another.

FireDrizzle1 votes

Riot should keep the cleaver as it is, it feels rewarding to land unlike Shyvs boring skillshot.

He needs grievous wounds from landing 3 cleavers or something if he is to be a lategame champ and have dps, no burst like now. Otherwise he is easy to draintank.

The last time I was playing Mundo was vs Gangplank and I got ahead but thanks to his barrels slow and large area and Mundo's lack of burst I really couldnt abuse it. If you get ahead on Mundo top it can be harder to snowball in the laning phase than others because ganking mid often requires the enemy laner is almost hugging your midtower.

Miror B1 votes

Instead of directly changing mundo, couldn't they change the grievous wounds items instead? (Idea being that they have two offensive-based ones which apply grievous wounds with something like a 10s cooldown after 3-4 seconds of it being applied, then possibly incorperate it into thornmail where it's just permanent) As someone who occasionally plays Mundo, I don't actually see a flaw with his kit per say but more with the current items around him.

Doozku1 votes

Mundo's theme is that of an insane madman who gets more health from getting hit, and sees pleasure in pain. I really don't expect a person like him who loves to inflict pain to himself and others as a selfless tank. I mean look at him. He's like a scary purple hulk. He should be a sustained damage threat who "goes where he pleases" because of how tanky he his and how much he heals. I really don't think he needs a poke ability in his Q, and his fire orbiting spell (I forgot what key this one goes on) just makes no sense whatsoever. I personally feel like he definitely needs a big vgu.

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