What seems to be the issue with Ornn to me

SpecterVonBaren··2 votes·567 views

Well here's another thread from me so bring in the downvotes I guess.

Anyway, I'm not an avid Ornn player, I haven't touched him since the weekend after he came out and I've only seen ONE Ornn since then in any of my games. But I've been thinking about what it is about him that makes him bad, or at least feel bad (LoLking says he has a 42% winrate and a 2% playrate so that sounds bad to me).

The issue can be highlighted by two things, first, watch this video, mute it, don't listen to anything. The point isn't the skill of the player or his opinions, I want you to watch what happens whenever he pulls off a full combo or tries to fight someone 1v1. I don't care about the times he misses an ability, what I want you to look at is what happens when he actually DOES land his abilities.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2SvT2byzoQ

The second thing that highlights his issue is Sion , because Sion does well what Ornn doesn't.

The issue with Ornn is that he has a lot of counterplay to his abilities but at the same time doesn't have enough reward for landing those abilities. His Q scales terribly into late game as a damage source and it has a long delay before the pillar pops up, giving people plenty of time to move away from it. His W locks him out of moving and someone only needs to dodge the last tick of damage to avoid the follow up stun+damage. His E has a delay on cast and a delay on finishing and does very little without him hitting a wall. Finally his ult has an instant slow but there's plenty of time before he can send out the secondary cast for the knockup and he can be CC'd to prevent the second cast.

There is SO MUCH counterplay in his kit. Now I'm fine with counterplay, I love counterplay, but there needs to be a proper reward for landing abilities that have counterplay like this and with Ornn it doesn't feel like anything he has gives enough for the risk. His W can actually do a lot of good damage with the stun proc but it's also his only good source of damage and it's really easy to avoid getting marked. In the video you can see him try to use his W on Kha only for him to just walk around him and avoid everything. His ult is very powerful but in a 1v1 it can be very easy to prevent him from landing the knockup and in teamfights if he lands it then he has no way for himself to personally follow up on it because he's so slow and all of his abilities are telegraphed or have special requirements to use effectively.

So let's get to Sion. Sion is another champion that has a lot of counterplay to his kit, but unlike Ornn, it feels rewarding to land Sion's abilities. His Q does a ton of damage if you get a full charge on it and if he can keep his shield from being popped then it will do a lot of damage in an aoe all around him, percentage MAX health damage as apposed to Ornn percentage current health damage. Sion also has one ability with an instant reward in his E which applies its CC immediately upon connecting, reduces armor and deals good damage. The great thing about Sion's ult is that if you can land it on someone then you're also positioned to follow up with a fully charged Q and be in range to land your other abilities. It's good for his team and gets him where he wants to be for a teamfight.

It feels like you really get rewarded for landing Sion's abilities but with Ornn, it feels like even when you manage to land everything on someone that you don't get enough out of the full combo and then you're left waiting on long cooldowns while clapping the enemy with your weak autos. There's just too much prep time, too many delays, and he's too slow to be really effective. Even if someone finds a way to make him work tomorrow, it still won't change how bad it feels to play him either, he feels incredibly clunky.

Now I'm not going to try to suggest a way to make him better, because honestly his abilities DO look good on paper, with the right (Or should I say, WRONG) tunning he could be incredibly OP. But I do feel that he needs work before he's going to be picked up and used well by most of the player base.

5 Comments

Iota Theta2 votes

If anything, he needs his base stats touched. He has a higher learning curve as opposed to most current tanks when it comes to his skills.

He is a rewarding champ, but not in the way that people are expecting him to be. He doesn't have damage potential like Sion, nor should he. In fact it goes against everything a tank should be. His reward is in the CC. Imaqtpie comments after two uses of ult how useless it is, but it's an engage ult, something you have to follow up on because all it is is CC and Brittle.

He's a champ that needs learned to both play as and with, because he's not the same as other tanks, and the feel of his kit, high impact in CC and durability but low damage, should be more of a basis for tanks than the current standard like Zac, Gragas, or Mao.

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

I think my problem with your point though is that if he's low on damage and he can't gank very well since so much of his kit slow before level 6 then he needs to be tuned more for the support role where he can have someone to take advantage of his CC.

Iota Theta1 votes

Not every champ needs to gank pre-6. We're still in a early game jg meta, but he can have some decent ganks. I've found my Q slow to he enough to get the knockup off provided I time the cast for right when the pillar spawns. He's decent toplane too with his waveclear on W-Q.

I'd rather him not be tuned for support role. He has decent enough trading, albeit over time, and farming in lane to solo lane. He can be support, but it's not nearly as strong as top or jg Ornn.

I think an issue is we're so used to tanks like Sion, Mao, and Zac deal damage, that the low damage of Ornn isn't enough. It works for Sion with his telegraphs, but the others it's just too much. Maybe Ornn is Riot's way of testing how a low damage lane/jg tank can manage. But to get to that tankiness, he needs levels and gold, which he can't get as well as support outside of Ancient Coin. (It is immensely satisfying to land a multi-man ult with a trong follow up of your combo + your team actully following with you. I might see if I can upload some of my better Ornn plays recently).

Side note, I wonder if the current meta of Ardent Censer and crit adcs is playing a factor, especially when enchanters/disengagers are fairly strong.

Spideraxe1 votes

You got some good points, why not poke Squad5 on Twitter to hear his thoughts https://twitter.com/squad5lol?lang=en

KoKoboto1 votes

Yeah. Pretty lame.

Max E first on Ornn btw.

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