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PSA for those wondering what to do against a team of healers

MrNuclearPumpkin··26 votes·3,360 views

I don't know what it is about people. But for some unknown reason, people take suggestions as a sign of insult. "Oh how dare you give me a suggestion! How dare you tell me to build something different from what I'm planning on!?"

Like, say if you're playing an ARAM match and at the start of the match you see that they have almost a full team of self healing champions. So, you suggest to your carries to buy an executioner's calling. Because you know that that eventually the healing champions (Swain) are going to simply outtank your team and because morello needs to be 35%, it's pretty much useless until they get low enough. :(

What makes it worse is when they start complaining that the tank is outhealing everyone and will actively blame the one person on the team with Morello, because they think that they're not doing anything.

So allow me to make a brief explanation about how the two Grievous Wounds items differ and why just having one Morello isn't always enough.

If I can help even ONE person understand how to fight against a heal comp, then my job is a success.

item 3165 Morellonomicon Unique: Dealing magic damage to an enemy champion below 35% health inflicts Grievous Wounds to them for 8 seconds.

Now there's something that should be paid careful attention to right here.

"Below 35% health." This is the biggest problem at the very moment. Imagine you have a Swain, on the other team and you notice that the Morello's isn't working on the tank with Rod of Ages, Rylai's, Spirit Visage, Warmogs. Why? Because simply put, your team can't outdamage his heal enough for him to be lowered down to 35% for your item to inflict grievous wounds.

item 3123 Executioner's Calling Unique – Executioner: Physical damage inflicts Grievous Wounds on enemy champions for 3 seconds.

This is what's the most important thing to take note of. Unlike Morello, Calling inflicts the very important healing nerf to anyone that is dealt physical damage to, regardless of their health. Meaning that you can drop on the swain and have a higher chance of killing him over just relying on Morello.

Now, does this mean that Morello is useless? No, of course not. However it just means that, they both serve their purpose. Imagine if there's both a Swain AND a Soraka on the same team. Well, chances are, it'll be A LOT more difficult to proc Grievous on the Swain than before. Where as Executioner's Calling is instant.

However, while Executioner's Calling is immediate it only lasts for 3 seconds, which jumps up to 5 seconds when upgraded to Mortal Reminder. Whereas, Morello lasts for a good 8 seconds. So, while Executioner's Calling is good for wearing them down, Morello is good for making sure they STAY down.

So seriously, if you're playing MF, or Vayne or any kind of ADC. Have a real good look at their team comp. Regardless if it's ARAM, or Summoner's Rift or Twisted Treeline, or whatever, look at who the champions are and ask yourself, "will it be harder for me to get kills if I don't buy executioners?"

I hope this helps! ":D

24 Comments

Maximum Morde10 votes

When I play against healers with Chogath, I just yell really loudly then eat the one closest to me.

Lost R7 votes

Everyone just says that Executioner's Calling and Mortal Reminder are terrible items. It makes me want to kick their teeth in. So you mean reducing the effect of healing and ignoring ALMOST HALF OF THE ENEMY'S ARMOR isn't good enough for you?!

IF YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT HOW HIGH THE ENEMY'S ARMOR IS OR HOW MUCH THEY CAN HEAL, THEN BUILD THE ITEMS OR SHUT THE FUCK UP.

Evewynn5 votes

I don't think anyone says they're terrible. But people DO need to buy them more, especially against heal comps. An early executioners calling in a soraka lane can drastically diminish the support's impact, but most adcs would just go "ma zeal/BFS"

Lost R2 votes

Whenever I am a non-support, I always build one of those items as my second or third item if the enemy has ANY kind of healing going on. But... people are dumb as sin in this game and don't think about one item working for another. The Last Whisper/Mortal Reminder/Lord Dominik's Regards is a buffer for the other items you get; it's not meant to be a giant stat stick that can pentakill everything on its own. The damage sucks on it, but then it's also negating almost half of the enemy's armor; effectively meaningless on a squishy target, but absolutely devastating to tanks, where their armor is most of their menace.

UltimateDiscord2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lost R,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6IZjfP2u,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-05-17T16:32:08.528+0000)

Everyone just says that Executioner's Calling and Mortal Reminder are terrible items. It makes me want to kick their teeth in. So you mean reducing the effect of healing and ignoring ALMOST HALF OF THE ENEMY'S ARMOR isn't good enough for you?!

IF YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT HOW HIGH THE ENEMY'S ARMOR IS OR HOW MUCH THEY CAN HEAL, THEN BUILD THE ITEMS OR SHUT THE FUCK UP.

https://33.media.tumblr.com/47ee929537f0dda77f36527af8941a8e/tumblr_mt9vtqFgq91shd7hho1_500.gif Got you.

doiminat0r36003 votes

Half the enemy's Bonus armor. You're forgetting that. It could be 40 points if they build one armor item.

MisterShameless4 votes

Thanks for the PSA

On a side note, I still don't understand why EC passive isn't restricted like morellonomicon.

800g item that has a better passive than their AP 2900g counter part.

Oleandervine2 votes

{quoted}

Thanks for the PSA

On a side note, I still don't understand why EC passive isn't restricted like morellonomicon.

800g item that has a better passive than their AP 2900g counter part.

Because in most cases, a mage or AP character using Morello's isn't going to encounter many situations where they absolutely need to apply Grievous Wounds. Flip over to melee on the top lane or bottom against Soraka or Nami or Sona, and you have AD characters who absolutely need to apply the debuff because they're going against the likes of Mundo, Garen, Soraka, Kayle, Fiora who thrive on healing and sustain.

MisterShameless2 votes

While yes it's an item bought just for the passive, I still feel like it needs a restriction. While most ADCs may not have DoTs to apply grevious wounds for longer durations, they should still have a restriction to them that should range between 50%-60% so there is still some way to heal instead of completely crippling an important part of your kit. All I'm asking is for some restrictions for EC.

Oleandervine2 votes

{quoted}

While yes it's an item bought just for the passive, I still feel like it needs a restriction. While most ADCs may not have DoTs to apply grevious wounds for longer durations, they should still have a restriction to them that should range between 50%-60% so there is still some way to heal instead of completely crippling an important part of your kit. All I'm asking is for some restrictions for EC.

You also have to take into consideration that EC/Mortal Reminder are niche picks that don't offer much more than the passive they bring to the table while Morellonomicon is an almost auto-inclusion in every mage build because of the AP, CDR, and Mana bonuses it gives. Morello's passive is just supplemental to the stats that people want from the item whIle EC/Mortal Reminder's passives are pretty much the only highly desirable things from those items.

MisterShameless2 votes

Fair point on it being niche since giant slayer is heavily favored over mortal reminder. The thing with Morellos is that it's a requirement for all ap mana dependent champions now. You use to have a few other options as a source of cdr, regen, and ap. Grevious wound is just a bonus. I'm not saying to make it the same restrictions. Just not let it apply 24/7.

Partholonian1 votes

{quoted}

You also have to take into consideration that EC/Mortal Reminder are niche picks that don't offer much more than the passive they bring to the table while Morellonomicon is an almost auto-inclusion in every mage build because of the AP, CDR, and Mana bonuses it gives.

That's exactly why I think it should be reworked to make the GW item's identity focus more on GW and alternatives introduced that have comparable or slightly better stats along with different passives. (Lost Chapter and its one build path is still taunting players who remember BMB; that kind of item family is what I'm thinking of, with one being specifically the GW option and balanced as such, and the others having other strengths that meaningfully trade off.)

Nobody should get GW just because they bought stats that are good for them as stats. They should make a decision to get GW, and give up something else they could have gotten instead. EC gets this right. It's good at what it does, but without being good at everything.

But on the mage side, Grail rework actually made this worse -- there used to be a similar stat alternative and they actually took it away without replacement and forced even more people to build the "buy it for the stats, get GW free whether you care about it or not" item.

GW should only be available on niche items, it should never just be there. How bad would it feel to be a CC champion if tenacity was on a highly efficient stat stick that lots of people built just because? How bad did it feel to be a tank when tons of armor pen was on an item that was good for all physical damage all the time and 2-3 people per team built it every game? How would mages like it if instead of having to choose to build toward Maw for MR, it was just added to IE?

Counters to a group of champions (and remember, this is not just countering someone else's item build, in many cases it's countering their kit) need to be something that you make a decision to pursue, not ubiquitous side effects of things that are already good for other reasons. Otherwise those champions are just bad all the time, or have to have crazy numbers so that they can function when the guy holding the counter item happens to be across the map .

EndlessSorcerer1 votes

Probably because Executioner's Calling is a specialized item purchased almost entire for the passive while Morellonomicon is a core item on many mid-laners regardless of the enemy team's composition.

This is especially true since 6.9 buffed it significantly.

Reaper Soraka3 votes

I kind of wish they'd raise the minimum for GW on morello. It's not like an AP champ (at least most of them) have much to bring beyond their first rotation. It's really a team item.

Blue Moon Wolf2 votes

I wish they would switch the GW on item 3123/item 3033 and item 3165. AD champs can apply GW on aa's while AP champs have to wait till their abilities are off cooldown. You would think the one that has a Cooldown barrier would be able to apply it on hit while the one that can constantly do damage would have to wait till enough damage has been done to apply it.

Mandang02 votes

They should just remove grievous wounds like they removed the debuff removal on QSS, then rebalance the sustain champs around that less-binary environment.

Erockandroll1 votes

{quoted}

They should just remove grievous wounds like they removed the debuff removal on QSS, then rebalance the sustain champs around that less-binary environment.

Thought about that, but that just makes Healing a knifes edge to balance. If it wasn't, Soraka wouldn't nearly have been as much of a problem as she was.

Any healing strong enough to be effective could end up being runaway, But the presence of Grievous wounds can actually curb healing should it start getting out of control. However, Grievous wounds should never be Meta. If it was, it means Either that the itemization is core enough that it's always there. (Healers are useless) Or that Grievous wounds is required.(Healers are OP)

[{quoted}](name=Lost R,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6IZjfP2u,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-05-17T16:32:08.528+0000)

Everyone just says that Executioner's Calling and Mortal Reminder are terrible items. It makes me want to kick their teeth in. So you mean reducing the effect of healing and ignoring ALMOST HALF OF THE ENEMY'S ARMOR isn't good enough for you?!

IF YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT HOW HIGH THE ENEMY'S ARMOR IS OR HOW MUCH THEY CAN HEAL, THEN BUILD THE ITEMS OR SHUT THE FUCK UP.

As much as I agree, no one likes picking up a niche item, just to counter a strat. In terms of Grievous wounds, if your a mage and Morrelo's isn't part of your core build, chances are, you won't actually buy it. (more so now, with the item changes) and if your the ADC. Even though, Executioner's calling is only 800 gold, that's 800 that could have gone to raw AD or AS, and offered you more DPS, that's hard to justify if your already behind. And also, people won't like building executioner's calling, unless they will eventually proceed to Mortal reminder. And item you would really only build against sustain tanks.

Mandang01 votes

I don't see how it makes the balance any more of a knife edge than it is now. The only difference is that now you get the nuclear option to just invalidate 40% of a champion's kit. It's just as bad for the healing champions as QSS's existence was for the balance of Zed/Trundle/etc.

As for Soraka, the only reason she's been jerked around as much as she has is because Riot's designed her around the expectation that heal debuffs exist in the game. Riot realized that current Soraka not being affected by such a mechanic wasn't balanced, so they reverted the change and brought her back to square one, but they could have done this more permanently by simply nerfing Soraka's heal itself rather than pulling her back into this binary environment where your heals are either 100% effective or 60% effective.

And I think your 2nd point is another great argument for removing heal debuff! Suppose Riot balances Soraka around a gamestate where she's played against heal debuff: do you think players are going to purchase those items to deal with Soraka, or are they going to refuse to buy them and complain that Soraka's too strong? Even if they do bite the bullet, now you have the healer feeling bad that their kit is countered so hard and the other player feels bad because they had to cater their build to one player's champion pick. Either way, it's frustrating.

TiiGz2 votes

Nice PSA, hoping that it helps more than 1 person haha

kuzzy472 votes

Can't tell how many adcs i met to be useless against tanks for not building item 3033 item 3036

Spacesuit Spiff1 votes

Had a plat 2 game go to 55 minutes because the enemy team had a soraka. Azir, who famously build 2 morellos in a pro game last year, apparently couldn't even manage one. After a lot of pleading I was relieved to see our adc get last whisper as a final item... and then he bought the wrong upgrade for it.

Healers op boys.

Blue Moon Wolf1 votes

You have no idea how many times I've faced teams of healers in ARAM and our AD champs refuse to buy item 3123. I will repeat 3-4 times throughout the match"they are healing all the damage we do, we need someone to build item 3033 to counter it." and no one ever buys it. One time we had 2 AP champs build item 3165, but it was useless since we couldn't get their health down to 35% for it to work (thanks Rito) and our AD champs wouldn't buy anything unless it offered 65+ AD or lifesteal. the enemy team would then blow up our AP champs, then laugh as the our ADCs desperately try to kill Swain who has item 3110, item 3075, item 3027 and item 3151 . On the other hand, I build item 3033 when I'm an AD champ and we tend to do really well against healing comps. #It's not a coincidence

Athenes Lulu1 votes

Don't forget this one:

item 3033 Mortal Reminder Unique – Executioner: Physical damage inflicts Grievous Wounds on enemy champions for 5 seconds.

And only 2.7k gold too, even cheaper than Morello's.

WhatDidYouSee1 votes

Once played a game as Trundle top against a full ad comp (Riven Graves Yasuo Caitlyn) Smashed lane against Riven, and at the end of the game (went on to 45 minutes) they each had a Lord Dominiks, and Graves had a Mortal reminder as well. Sooooo satisfying to see the enemy have to build 5 items to counter you.

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