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Make Annie's ultimate more meaningful to her kit

Kitsuki05··4 votes·869 views

For a champion who's been around as long as Annie has, it's kind of surprising how pointless her ultimate is, if you think about it. The most terrifying thing about Annie casting Tibbers is that there's an instant AoE stun that does a lot of damage, and the stunning effect isn't even based on the ultimate, it's part of her passive. Strictly speaking, Annie's ultimate is basically a high damage AoE spell that creates a beefy controllable minion; that's a really boring ultimate!

Recently, Tibbers was buffed to receive an extra effect from one of Annie's spells, he moves fast and gains her shield whenever she casts it. I believe this is a step in the right direction. Why not go all out and make it so that every one of her spells affects Tibbers meaningfully? Thematically it is very clear that Annie's summon is suppose to be part of her identity (she talks about him constantly for one) but mechanically he's just a side effect. "Woo I stunned everyone and won the team fight! I guess I'll just... make Tibbers tank that tower and die now." While on the onset of Annies creation you may not have had the tools to add many meaningful interactions between her and her pet, I believe now she is due for a revamp that isn't really talked about as much as it should.

16 Comments

D1 Kalista2 votes

Imagine if she threw her Tibbers (delayed for counterplay unlike now) and then she'd ride him, like a Nunu sort of thing... Where her abilities become enhanced versions of the ones she had before. She can retain her ability to be ranged by having the option to get off perhaps? A couple of tweaks and IMO that'd give her a more interesting kit while keeping her theme the same.

Rose Muffins2 votes

Annie is still very strong as it is, but I do think that would be an interesting way to counteract her Tibbers and make her think about her stun a little more. Throwing it like a Donger stun bomb, but not nearly as slow as Nami's bubble. I could get behind that, but I don't think her spells need to be any strong than they already are.

D1 Kalista1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rose Muffins,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=64czPVHh,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-07-16T00:27:14.212+0000)

Annie is still very strong as it is, but I do think that would be an interesting way to counteract her Tibbers and make her think about her stun a little more. Throwing it like a Donger stun bomb, but not nearly as slow as Nami's bubble. I could get behind that, but I don't think her spells need to be any strong than they already are.

I agree they shouldn't be stronger. But I meant like Syndra's spells. Those are a perfect example. Gaining utility. Like W Width or range. Q having a MF like effect. E becoming a shield. Things like that. Not quite sure since I don't balance champs :p

But if her damage isn't touched while giving her some more utility it would be interesting. And maybe make her passive just apply to her ult? So her ult would always stun but the rest of her spells would gain some other effects? Not sure.

Or her passive could be some master pet kind of thing. Where her tibbers follows her around from level 1 and does some dmg but not much. And slowly grows as she gets higher lvl. That would give her a micro side which could fit into gameplay. And then she could just throw the little tibbers to become bigger. Honestly this champ has a lot of potential for flashy things.

Kitsuki051 votes

Really, the only thing that makes Annie even work in the first place is that there's no way for someone to respond to a Tibbers ultimate to the face. I don't think anything other than Annie's ultimate really needs to be changed. It should be significantly weakened, but still just as strong in the right situation, that way it could have a little more variety than just "push button to blow something up"

D1 Kalista2 votes

Indeed, I can't argue with that, but she does need some compensation buffs if her flash Tibbers gets nerfed since her only viability moments come from that combo. If we take it away we just make her weaker. So rewarding good Annies while punishing bad ones and making them make more key decisions is IMHO the only way to really make her a more fun and rewarding champ to play with and against.

Kitsuki051 votes

or he could be reworked into a projectile similar to Fiz ult. Annie throws a harmless stuffed animal at someone, stuns them because of passive, then he explodes into a giant stunning bear of fiery death and destruction.

D1 Kalista2 votes

That could work. I presume the same way that it is portrayed in the cinematic?

Kitsuki051 votes

Yeah, Tibbers should act and feel like he does in the cinematic.

I think the general consensus here is that Tibbers should be something that can be considered a threat in his own right, instead of just the by product of an annoying spell.

D1 Kalista2 votes

Well look on the bright side, at least tibbers is a nice way to apply on spell effects xd

SEKAI2 votes

From a different angle, it's an ultimate that gives an AoE burst, procs passive stun and gives a controllable beefy minion that can be used for various purposes including but not limited to, turret rushing, all within a spell.

I don't think it's devoid of any meaning at all, not everything has to be a ridiculously long scientific article to be considered s proper spell description.

Kitsuki051 votes

I didn't say it was meaningless, I said it was boring. You can't do much to prevent it from happening, you don't react to it in very many ways, and it doesn't do much in the way of variety. Something doesn't have to be insanely complicated to be more interesting, just compare it to something like... Alistar W. You charge at the enemy and they get knocked back, pretty straight forward. However, there's a lot of depth that can be added in by player skill. You can zone out an enemy in a team fight, you can save your ally, you can get behind an enemy and knock them into danger, you can chain it with your other skills for a powerful combo.

Saying that Tibbers has "various purposes" is a stretch, he's just a controllable lane minion that has a sunfire cape. It's one thing to say a champion's ultimate works really well with their passive, but in Annie's case, her ultimate is completely reliant on her passive; she never uses Tibbers for anything else.

Namamall1 votes

I created a thread with an idea to rework Annie, if you want to check it out. It main change is to her passive, causing it to have different effects than just stunning, and to interact more with Tibbers: Making Annie More Interesting

Kitsuki051 votes

I already did look at it, changes too much and doesn't really adress the fact that Tibbers is boring once he is summoned

Namamall1 votes

The goal of the rework was to require Annie to work with Tibbers in order to maximize her damage, rather than him just being the cherry on top after all the front-loaded burst from Annie's combo.

Jakojo1 votes

Except the only problem with Tibbers is its lack of counterplay with her passive up. Her ultimate itself fits thematically with her champion. Summoning a giant bear that was your teddy bear and being able to control him while he's on freaking fire is pretty cool to me. I don't know, I must be a boring person.

Kitsuki051 votes

Imagine if he could be more fiery and CCed people, not because your passive was up and you pushed a button, but because he's a freaking fire bear that wants to eat people.

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