Good and bad examples of mobility in the game.

Melledoneus··173 votes·9,163 views

#Escape Good example: Elise Must have an enemy to target away from her attackers or she's literally setting herself up for death. Also loses tempo and potential engage, punished with a long CD.

Bad Example: Riven Uses her E to dash away and get a shield, essentially covering her for using the move in a cowardly fashion when she is supposed to be an all-in champion.

#Engage Good example: Sion Telegraphed but powerful, must plan out and time engage with his ultimate well for maximum results.

Bad Example: Malphite Exclusive access to back line and no interactive way to stop or avoid it. Basically, press R for a huge advantage in fights.

#Evasion Good example: Renekton Can use his dash to avoid a skillshot, but loses a potential engage and part of his damage rotation, as well as his second dash.

Bad Example: Ekko Just dodged your skillshot, and gets a targeted burst attack and a potential kill after effortlessly dashing out of your ability. Yay.

#Making picks Good example: Shen Take a risk by jumping at an enemy, losing major resources if you miss and opening a huge window for enemies to counter-attack.

Bad example: Maokai Press W for a free kill.

#Roaming Good example: Talon Must plan out route through the jungle and over terrain so as to not lock himself out of escape or chase potential.

Bad example: Quinn Near-global presence on a 2 second cooldown.


We need to make stronger niches for mobility.

371 Comments

Ralanr69 votes

I definitely do agree with Malphite. In the beginning it makes sense, but now it's just too reliable a spell that basically makes him an ult bot. Sadly it's so core to his kit that I can't imagine them changing it at all.

Bad Example: Uses her E to dash away and get a shield, essentially covering her for using the move in a cowardly fashion when she is supposed to be an all-in champion.

It's funny because it's called Valor last I checked.

Melledoneus26 votes

{quoted}

I definitely do agree with Malphite. In the beginning it makes sense, but now it's just too reliable a spell that basically makes him an ult bot. Sadly it's so core to his kit that I can't imagine them changing it at all.

I wish it was a two-part spell where you can choose to knock-up your enemies or just dash to them to debuff their attack speed. Using both would double the CD, while using just the dash would be lower. Maybe not the best idea, but it's a start.

It's funny because it's called Valor last I checked.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/017/215/Ironic._My_stupid_attempt_at_a_new_meme._I_tried_4bafa6_3552920.jpg

Malicious Metal48 votes

That's the problem with a lot of Vanguard Tanks IMO. They have extremely reliable, devastating ULTIMATES while rendering the rest of their kits usually boring and really bland.

They need that Roster update for a reason.

Ralanr10 votes

Which is why Sion is the most healthy vanguard.

Malicious Metal10 votes

Of course he is.

Strong, powerful, SATISFYING base skills and a cool ultimate.

He's the full package, which is saying something seeing that the only complaints ever came from his passive being a bit meh.

Ralanr2 votes

Though like everyone he was a bit much on release. Really strong lane harass (it's still good honestly).

I think Sion will be the inspiration of the vanguard update like how Zed was for assassins.

WoonStruck5 votes

I just want Skarner to be a big bug with some weight in his abilities.

Right now he's like 0 stack Cho trying to kill someone with E. Huge disconnect between lore and gameplay. Pretty unsatisfying.

Melledoneus7 votes

Whenever I charge up Sion's Q, when I see that Q smash down I feel the power. If I release it early, I snap my finger off the keyboard and hear that satisfying crash.

Sion is just a god damned treat to play.

Melledoneus19 votes

Whoever did his rework nailed it. I'll be damned if any other champion came out nearly as flawlessly reworked as Sion.

Melledoneus15 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=63QAaEFA,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-24T19:43:21.142+0000)

That's the problem with a lot of Vanguard Tanks IMO. They have extremely reliable, devastating ULTIMATES while rendering the rest of their kits usually boring and really bland.

Gragas is good. JarvanIV isn't a vanguard, silly Melle. Get your head together. Malphite Make his ultimate require some thought or planning rather than 'ooh, let's R.' Sejuani Make her W feel rewarding. It's so damn clunky and awkward, and her E doesn't feel as rewarding as a result. Sion Make his E have more strategic value than 'shoot minions or slow the first person hit.' Leona Could use some tweaks to her combos to give more variety. Amumu Maybe his E could be modernized, but otherwise is fine. Zac Engage is too binary, could use some variation in combo chains. Rammus Strengthen his anti-auto attack niche while weakening him to spells, but reward him for surviving in different ways. RekSai Seems ok, but Burrowed Q could use some strategic tweaking. Skarner This guy needs help.

They need that Roster update for a reason.

I can't wait.

Oelyk7 votes

I have a deep hatred for gragas because he bullied the shit outa me last time I played jungle. It was morally devastating to be warding riven and suddenly the fat man himself shoves his massive gut into your face.

Melledoneus16 votes

I sometimes hate him because he overrides most CC-dashes with his own.

Ralanr5 votes

#THAT IS THE MOST TILTING THING!!!

I E him as Poppy and he just knocks me back with his E! It's so fucking frustrating.

Melledoneus18 votes

Shen Time to catch out Gragas! Shadow Dash Gragas Body slams Shen's E, cancels it, waddles away Shen Wipes blood from forehead

Big Lincoln4 votes

sejuani should be reworked into a juggernaut

Melledoneus21 votes

She has way too much CC for that.

Big Lincoln1 votes

we can change that

Melledoneus21 votes

But her whole thing is her AoE CC threat and that she charges in to punish people for sticking together, for being 'cowards.'

I'm not sure if Sej players would like such a drastic change.

Big Lincoln1 votes

same as every other initiating tank ?

i am a sej player and i have the idea that takes her into the future

spirit breaker Q plz

Melledoneus6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=63QAaEFA,comment-id=000000000000000100010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-24T20:36:05.587+0000)

same as every other initiating tank ?

Not really. Rek'sai and Gragas focus on splitting teammates off from each other.

i am a sej player and i have the idea that takes her into the future

Jayce I put down an acceleration gate and blast 'em with a hyper charge! Face the future!

spirit breaker Q plz

I think spirit breaking is already overdone, especially with Shen and Mordekaiser.

Big Lincoln4 votes

rek'sai is not a tank >:( she is a fight alien

I think spirit breaking is already overdone, especially with Shen and Mordekaiser.

no i mean this guy https://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/dota2.gamepedia.com/8/82/Spirit_Breaker.png?version=140f2d87604a3f1161b679048463e61b

run really fast and smash people, giant pigs have no business dashing

Melledoneus7 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=63QAaEFA,comment-id=00000000000000010001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-24T20:42:04.543+0000)

rek'sai is not a tank >:( she is a fight alien

She's listed as a Vanguard.

no i mean this guy https://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/dota2.gamepedia.com/8/82/Spirit_Breaker.png?version=140f2d87604a3f1161b679048463e61b

run really fast and smash people, giant pigs have no business dashing

Hecarim already does that, though. So does Kled.

Wet Dryman9 votes

Rek'Sai will get probably a gameplay update because Riot want her to be a Diver again.

Apocalypsic5 votes

I really don't think we need more juggernauts in this game..

Big Lincoln5 votes

juggernauts are the healthiest class in the game and one of riot's better ideas

LordSirChipmunk1 votes

Yasuo "Healthy, eh?" Riven "Nobody complains about us at all!" Vi "Everyone loves us!"

Although I must say, juggernauts are pretty fun to play.

Big Lincoln13 votes

but none of those are juggs

THE RlVER KlNG11 votes

They're incredibly binary and one of the most stat-check classes in the game. If you're a melee and you aren't significantly fed you can't fight them. If you're ranged you just kite them and they suck.

Tormentula14 votes

I don't even find some of the mobility spells that bad, I just find the kits they're tied to toxic.

Ekko's blink is fine, ekko's ult is fine.. but to have a blink+stun to all in, and have a get out scott free button in one kit is what's not fine.

Quinn I haven't seen a quinn in forever, and more often than not they're pressured to take ignite, leaving top tower exposed. Additionally having quinn on the team already puts drawbacks since you lack a proper engage, tank, or late game (not snowballing) carry for the top lane. This mobility doesn't make quinn a win condition, its just gives her an option if she's ahead and her lane opponent starts to become worth less gold.

I play quinn myself, but I often have to ask my team "whats everybody going" since she often forces junglers and supports to pick around her, making uncomfortable comps.

Arya Riven9 votes

Good examples of mobility in the game: The ones I personally like.

Bad examples of mobility in the game: The ones I personally dislike.

Pale Pirate7 votes

Maokai Press W for a free kill.

enemy flashing into their turret

The question, as always, is WHO is the free kill.

Melledoneus3 votes

You, since Maokai is now tanking your turret with a CotC shield the size of your healthbar, taking 20% reduced damage, and giggling as the turret shots tickle him while his team mauls you.

LatetotheRace4 votes

"taking 20% reduced damage, and giggling as the turret shots tickle him while his team mauls you." "reducing non-turret damage dealt to himself and allies in the vortex by 20%"

TyrekGoldenspear6 votes

B-But Shenpai can jump all the way across the map! And get a shield!

More seriously, I see no problem with Riven's dash.

So what if she gets a shield with her escape? It works functionally no different than any other dash. She gets out of range anyway so what's the issue with the shield?

Melledoneus12 votes

{quoted}

B-But Shenpai can jump all the way across the map!

He doesn't jump. He poses beautifully.

And get a shield!

Duh. What did you think that armor was for, show?

More seriously, I see no problem with Riven's dash. So what if she gets a shield with her escape? It works functionally no different than any other dash.

If Riven was an assassin, fine. But her all-in is what she's known for, so why give her a shield for running away?

She gets out of range anyway so what's the issue with the shield?

Because if by some miracle you managed to land a skillshot to punish her for running, she laughs at your futile attempts.

TyrekGoldenspear4 votes

She's only known for all ins becuase that's what her mains do. :P

Besides, if we took it away she would have less options.

Right now it's an engage and escape.

Without a shield it would pretty much only be an escape.

Also, speaking of pose beautifully...

Imagine this scenario. Taric and Shen are splitpushing top.

All of a sudden their three teamates get ambushed.

They are holding their own, but won't make it much longer.

Shenpai leaps into action, prepping himself to save his tsun-carry.

Taric believes in the worthiness of his cause, and blesses him with the power of fabulous.

Shen drops into his team just as the Taric ult completes...

Melledoneus7 votes

None of that rhymed, what kind of poem is this?

Jokes aside, Riven does not need a shield when running away. I'm saying it should grant a shield only if she's using it to fight. Xin Zhao only gets his healing when he commits to a fight. Camille gets her heal and true damage from staying in a fight. Kled utilizes his tools best when he's fighting to the death. Duelists that all-in have a pattern of going in and having to stay in to be rewarded for fighting. Thus, it's out of place when Riven builds full damage, has a shield that scales with her damage, but doesn't have to use the damage to get the shield.

Brain Errör 4046 votes

Riven plays around higher CDs than a lot of the champs your listing. She doesn't have %damage like Kled, she doesn't have upfront dueling capabilities like Xin Zhao and she doesn't have the innate damage and tankiness of a Camille. I know it's hard to believe due to hard core circle jerking, but Riven uses hit and run tactics for a reason. She simply doesn't have the tools to commit to a fight and stay there.

That's why when you watch high elo players, they NEVER try to burn their E to go in. I know it feels like she has next to non-existent cooldowns, but she really does have them. All of her abilities max out on a 4 second CD. Which could be considering pretty standard for anyone that gets 40% CDR. Even more so that all her "mobility" spells are actually her damage source (aside from E).

Riven is so easy to deal with in lane it's laughable. Assuming you actually play to deal with her.

Melledoneus7 votes

{quoted}

Riven plays around higher CDs than a lot of the champs your listing. She doesn't have %damage like Kled, she doesn't have upfront dueling capabilities like Xin Zhao and she doesn't have the innate damage and tankiness of a Camille. I know it's hard to believe due to hard core circle jerking, but Riven uses hit and run tactics for a reason. She simply doesn't have the tools to commit to a fight and stay there.

Which is my problem. She should have to play around with her tools to win fights, to outmaneuver and outsmart brute force and get rewarded heavily for it. Instead we have a champion who is annoying because when she can win a fight, she crushes i t. When she can't, she just runs from it. I think she needs more versatile tools that work together than having to rely on canceling animation frames.

That's why when you watch high elo players, they NEVER try to burn their E to go in. I know it feels like she has next to non-existent cooldowns, but she really does have them. All of her abilities max out on a 4 second CD. Which could be considering pretty standard for anyone that gets 40% CDR. Even more so that all her "mobility" spells are actually her damage source (aside from E). Riven is so easy to deal with in lane it's laughable. Assuming you actually play to deal with her.

Riven is a mess of a champion. Her mobility is annoying, her power is win-or-lose from level 1, and she relies on getting obscenely fed to carry. She needs a modernization, or a rework.

TyrekGoldenspear6 votes

Okay, I see what you are saying, but allow me to offer a rebuttal.

You listed XinZhao, Camille, Kled.

Now, what do all their dashes have in common?

They deal damage AND do an additional effect.

XinZhao's deals damage and challenges them.

Camille's deals damage and stuns them.

Kled's deals damage and lets him dash through a second time.

Now look at Riven's.

No damage. Only a shield.

You see why I have a problem with this assessment? If we go by your idea, we're giving a champ with 0 damage on her dash no real utility either. Plus the shield scales with her bonus AD.

Now you would be correct in pointing out that all of them need a target of some kind to dash, unlike Riven.

To that I say...

Gragas Graves Corki Fizz Leblanc Malphite Shen (sorry shenpai, need you for this example.)

Every single one of these champs have a unidirectional dash. They all deal damage and an additional effect.

Do you really want to take Riven's shield away just because it isn't used how you think it should be used all the time?

Food for thought.

Now then, I wasn't aware you wanted a poem, but if you insist...


The birds were singing, the scuttle crabs were scuttling.

Off to one side were two men, quickly running.

One was the Aspect of the Protector, a man most divine and beautiful.

The other was a Flippin' Ninja, whose determination was indisputable.

Together they slew minions and led their own through the plain.

For you see, they were splitpushing top lane.

Suddenly the ninja gets a distress signal; he sees it's from his tsun-carry, Vayne.

He flips his ninja-phone to video, and sees a sight most distressing.

Their three comrades were surrounded; on all sides the enemy was pressing.

The outlaw bit through his cigar in a rage. The light mage was shaking with fear, just like a maraca.

"GET YOUR USELESS HIDE DOWN HERE AND PEEL FOR ME SHENPAI!" The carry screeched. She added quietly, "B-baka."

Shenpai knew his duty, the top lane tower had to wait.

Because in this teamfight, lay the game's fate.

"I understand your mission." The Aspect said, his gems shimmering most colorful. He gave Shenpai a gift most powerful.

As Shenpai prepared to cross dimensions, to shatter reality asunder,

His body began to glow, with a power that filled him with wonder.

He made it to his tsun-carry, with everything on the line.

In a spectacle that would be remembered for all time.

God Raijin5 votes

Camille Good Example: Can only dash if there is a wall nearby......wait.....what's that range?....

kappa tho

Melledoneus12 votes

Listen, you're asking a ghost-buster to kill Satan here.

I'm out of my league with her.

Blumpkin Nation4 votes

Evasion

Good example: Vayne Doesn't take you very far, but allows you to escape sudden skill shots. Requires a good amount of reaction skills.

Bad example: Vayne Grants bonus attack damage that can crit. Can also cause you to go invisible for up to 1 second every few seconds during her ultimate.

Melledoneus19 votes

I'm thoroughly convinced that Vayne should have most of her AD ratios removed and become a purely attack speed carry who focuses on dodging and darting around to kite.

Earl Eulrich3 votes

While i agree on most of it i heavily disagree with malphite´s ult - it´s just really the bread and butter of his kit and when your opponents are skilled it often needs a lot of oversight and patience to get a good enough ult off to win the fight. Also it´s flashable, huge part of the reason you rarly see malphite in proplay...even when tanks and armorstacking are strong.

Ralanr12 votes

I think he's not seen in proplay often is because players know how to play without grouping when Malphite is in play.

Sraeg20134 votes

And because he isn't doing shit outside his ult for the most part.

NodirjonSattarov1 votes

You forgot to give an example for Kog'Maw KogMaw

Melledoneus7 votes

Kog'maw has mobility? Damn, never noticed.

Danjeng5 votes

THREE HUNDRED TWENTY FIVE MOVEMENT SPEED. WTF!?!?!? That's 3900 G worth of stats, more than a Deathcap. Good job Rito, you really thought this one through.

Kog'Maw does have mobility, a whopping 40% MS boost... after being killed.

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