Snowballing Erases Skill Expression

Hemulen Magi··28 votes·9,447 views

Snowballing erases skill expression and makes the game boring. It's the nature of League to some extent, since taking a lead grants gold, which allows a player to purchase item advantages to keep snowballing, but it seems really excessive at the moment.

Take three of my recent games as examples: I am playing Tryndamere jg and I meet up with the enemy jungler at level 2 at the rift scuttler. We have a pretty even fight, but I am the stronger early duelist and I end up chasing him down, predicting his escape routes and taking first blood. I then pull off a couple early ganks that go well. That all took a bit of skill expression to do but we're less than 5 minutes in. Now I head back to the shop and purchase some items. Now I have a lead over the enemy and no one can come close to a fair fight 1vs1, so I can go where I want when I want and I can keep pushing my lead into a snowball with much less continued skill expression required for the rest of the game. A little while of this goes on, and I can easily 1 vs 2 with zero risk because I have a item 3031 and Conqueror, while the enemy tanks building item 3047 item 3076 does nothing at all to slow me down because I have access to more snowball gold because I am a damage dealer accumulating kills and true damage is stupid. Now it takes 3 of their team members to stop me from split pushing their base but they still can't kill me, and I keep mindlessly spinning away and then shoving waves right back at them while they are trapped in their base while my teammates are wrecking the remainder of them 4 vs 2. Eventually I can 1 vs 3 them anyways and win the game. So there was decent skill expression for the first 5-8 minutes of the game with opportunity for the enemy to make a comeback, but afterwards it was pure mindless snowball with no viable options for the enemy at all. That wasn't much fun for either side.

Game 2: I am playing Nocturne jg and I manage to take a small lead early on but the match still seems pretty even. Then I start building tank shredding items and start ganking a lot to help my allies shove the enemy tanks out of their lanes because they are safe to bully. Then I get my ult and assassinate a squishy. Up until this point, there might have been a little bit of skill expression on my part and some strategy required, but now the snowball is going strong. I end up getting item 1419 item 3153 item 3124 item 3071 and simply mindlessly slaughtering anyone I target, tank or squishy alike. I have the lead so with the way snowballing works, I just need to press R and 100-0 (cuz assassin identity) the enemy with no counterplay (muh "high risk high reward") to keep the snowball building. I honestly got bored and started making absolutely idiotic picks and ulting into the full enemy team, but it didn't really matter because I would still get 1-2 kills out of it and my teammates were already snowballing themselves because their opponents were getting shut out of the game by my snowballing. Their tanks tried to stack armor all game long just to survive me, but it didn't matter because they were tanks facing a snowballing opponent and they never get as much kill potential as an assassin or fighter so they don't get to rake in the gold therefore don't get to exist in such a snowball centric meta. They invested every cent they got into trying to counterbuild me with armor, even though I had AP teammates, but it didn't help them against me at all because I was snowballing therefore I could keep buying tank shredding items and brute force crushing them when they tried to play the game. Once the snowball started, this game got boring fast.

Game 3: Another game, I am up against a Zoe and Rengar. Unfortunately, Zoe's opponent dies a couple of times early on because he wasn't playing a strong waveclearing champion, and interacting with Zoe at all in laning risks her completely 100-0ing with no chance to fight back because during her CC, you lose half your hp to one ability and the other half to summoner 14 + electrocute. Now Zoe is snowballing, so she can continue to do this unless she royally screws up and gets shut down repeatedly. I try to hold mid lane, but Zoe flashes on me and drops a sleepy bubble then 100-0s me too. I lack the required multiple mobility abilities to be able to dodge Zoe's abilities and gapclose on Zoe effectively, so there is little I can do to punish her while I desperately try to help save the lane knowing that the condition for me to be 1-shot is Zoe landing a single ability on me. During all of this time, Rengar is snowballing by ganking the other lanes uncontested. At this point, my options are pretty limited, but I see a risky opportunity to take dragon that seems like it might be what we need to get back into the game. Suddenly Rengar leaps out of stealth and 100-0s me in 0.2 seconds then takes the dragon I was heading over to ward or kill. Oh boy. It feels so nice being "outplayed" in 0.2 seconds by snowball. Fights lasting 0.2 seconds while death timers last 40+ seconds and it takes 20-30 seconds to walk back to lane sure seems like compelling game design (/s). In other games, like CoD (which I don't play for good reasons), where fights last 0-2 seconds, respawn timers are usually like 3-10 seconds, the maps are small, and snowballing from purchasing items doesn't exist so at least the 1 second fights remain on roughly equal footing for skill expression.

Snowballing in League deletes the skill expression from encounters and kills strategy in the game. The only people who want this are smurfs so that they can rack up 40 kills by abusing new players and certain streamers/wanna-be-pros who demand "solo carrying" in order to boost their ego/views with snowball kill montages. Riot, can you please fix this? It's not a fun environment for 8-9/10 players in each game and, for me at least, it's boring even when I am one of the snowballing 1-2 players. Getting kills and CS should reward some advantages, but never so much that snowballing completely erases counterplay and skill expression for someone's opponents.

13 Comments

NY6411 votes

What are you talking about? It takes so much skill as someone like MasterYi to press Q, auto attack and Q again while also ignoring their armor because true damage is a wonderful thing. I need so much skill as any assassin to do so much damage that shielding/healing from supports is useless. As long as I’m 10/0 that proves I’m a very skilled player.

Naymliss8 votes

I remember back when champions like Zed and Talon had to wait for windows of opportunity, like the enemies mispositioning or blowing key cooldowns. Now they just faceroll into everyone and one shot them.

My Waifu Vanilla1 votes

Please go play Zed and Talon for yourself and all in at literally any time you want and see how that goes for you. Yes, when you are already 5/0 or whatever the need for that is lower, but saying that you can basically walk into lane and W+R someone instantly on Zed and actually get the kill is ignorant at best.

Of course when you are ahead of the curve you are going to do things easier. That is literally the same for almost every genre of video game in the world. Overleveled/overgeared in an RPG? Ignore mechanics. Have power ups in a game like megaman that you shouldn't have yet? Ignore boss mechanics and kill them in 5 hits. Have a power up in a platformer that you shouldn't have for the level? Trivialize the level design.

Naymliss1 votes

I recently did it on Katarina after my item 3145 item 3146 power spikes.

chipndip11 votes

Should we slow down assassin kill patterns again?

Naymliss1 votes

I think the best start right now would be to hit assassin runes, namely electrocute and sudden impact.

5050BS5 votes

Champ Design of most of the new champs = faceroll

Basically for the last 5 years. (go look who was released 5 years ago and you will see why LOL is trash now)

Hyquiem3 votes

I see your point. He’s not complaint about assasins get that straight. It’s so true anything that gets a lead can be super oppressive. Riot doesn’t understand if they are hosting Lcs people love a late game scenario where it becomes unpredictable now it’s so lame.. one dude gets a lead and he’s blowing up someone else. I guess riot is not realizing a moba is not An dps multiplayer where you go and camp with a sniper and oneshot people, half the game or you just jump shoot and repeat.

Like seriously in urf it’s even more hectic if one team gets something oppressive it’s gg. Ether it’s time to join the assasin party or be slammed.

kurnubego2 votes

Not sure about what kind of skill you're talking about. Harnessing gold and taking advantage of early power spikes or turtling for scaling are common options. Without gold you make early game irrelevant. One's amount of earned gold is the ultimate skill expression. Flashy outplays are secondary if matter at all.

Ðeath XIII2 votes

Typically the issue is more of a problem with EXP snowball than gold. People like running TP because there is less risk in dying and losing a bunch of EXP. The gold can be earned back by killing the enemy, lost EXP is just lost.

Teridax681 votes

I agree with this, and I think it helps to establish a difference between rewards and snowballing, because the two are not the same. I agree that players should get rewarded for good plays, such as getting kills, rotating properly, completing objectives, or even just last-hitting better than their opponent. However, when that reward translates purely into making fights easier for whichever player pulled ahead, there ends up being a snowballing problem, because it then becomes progressively harder for whoever's behind to catch back up, without having to resort to some crappy rubberbanding mechanic, like catchup XP. Snowballing erases skill expression because it progressively substitutes more and more of the need to express skill with raw statistical power, which means that a team that expresses more skill over the entire game may still lose, simply because they didn't get the initial lead. Because of this, I think we need to stop using snowballing as a form of reward.

If there is one valid reward in League, however, I think it should be expressed by direct progress towards destroying the enemy Nexus. Destroying structures does create some territorial advantage, but in a hypothetical scenario in which progress were purely expressed in terms of damage to the Nexus, e.g. Dominion, there would always be an equal chance for either team to come back from a disadvantage, because there would be no difference in fighting power to stop them from getting their own rewards for their skill expression. Because winning a match ultimately boils down to destroying the enemy Nexus, rather than amassing the most kills, it is the former that needs to be made the biggest indicator of progress, not the latter. Fights are fun, and matches should have plenty of them, but fights are only consistently fun if they're fair, and fights are rarely fair when there's a clear one-sided advantage.

Here I think are a few examples of stuff that could help address snowballing as it currently exists:

  • Lowering stats on items across the board. Players would still snowball to some degree from stat leads, but not to the ridiculous amounts that exist today. AD, AP and health should be the main stats targeted.
  • Reworking Dragon rewards so that the objective deals guaranteed damage to enemy turrets, instead of providing permanent stats. Random dragons aren't fun, and their bonuses amount to permanent stats, which contribute to snowballing in just about the least interesting way. Guaranteed structure damage, e.g. by having a dragon swoop through the sky and breathe fire on them, would allow teams to progress meaningfully throughout the game in a manner that doesn't just skew all future fights.
  • Reworking Rift Herald and Baron Nashor to just spawn 1 / 3 Rift Heralds for the capturing team upon death. Herald's in a decent state at this point, but Baron's buff is showing its age. It's been way overbuffed, but also implemented in a not-so-great way, since its bonuses also make the winning team even harder to engage in combat, in addition to giving them a huge pushing advantage. It effectively prevents the defending team from responding properly in any manner, which isn't a good feeling on the receiving end. Converting all of that power into push-focused NPCs would allow capturing teams to get closer to a win by dealing near-guaranteed structure damage, while still giving defenders more counter-options.
  • Removing the minion bonuses on level differences. This is an addition that has been pretty much unanimously disliked, and that does nothing but add more snowballing to the game. If games with a certain team level difference are so unwinnable that Riot may as well massively buff minions to end things faster, that's when a Nexus should be blowing up. In that case, teams should be able to surrender earlier with fewer votes, but otherwise, this mechanic should not exist.
chipndip11 votes

If you have IE and Conqueror, but no Zeal item...why DID you get away with any of this?

Hemulen Magi1 votes

I didn't say that I had no Zeal item, though Tryndamere has crit chance from his rage passive, so he would have access to IE's true damage without a Zeal item. If I recall correctly, I built item 1038 > item 3086 >item 3031 then snowballed extremely hard, destroyed a bunch of turrets/objectives, picked up a bunch of kills, then went back to cash out for a completed item 3046 and a bunch of other items.

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