Suggestion: Ranked Games Should Affect Normal MMR

Subdue·Jul 21, 2017·3 votes·280 views

When a player's Ranked MMR begins to deviate too far from his Normal MMR (Say, +/- 200 Points), his Ranked wins and losses should affect his Normal MMR. This should alleviate the situation where normal games become massively mismatched due to players who have played the last 100 games improving in Ranked and leaving their normal MMR behind, and will also improve the experience of players testing champions and strategies out in Normal before bringing them to Ranked, as they will have a more accurate representation of their effectiveness.

Discuss.

16 Comments

LostFr0stJul 21, 20172 votes

Many people use normals to practice off-roles.

If someone is a Diamond Top main, it's unlikely they're a Diamond marksman. If they get placed vs one they will get crushed.

You're basically saying to remove their serious practice mode.

SubdueJul 21, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Many people use normals to practice off-roles.

If someone is a Diamond Top main, it's unlikely they're a Diamond marksman. If they get placed vs one they will get crushed.

You're basically saying to remove their serious practice mode.

Do you think that someone who plays at a Diamond 3 level as Top plays less than say, Plat 3 as ADC?

LostFr0stJul 21, 20171 votes

No idea. Depends on the person obviously.

I'm pretty sure that "Plat 3 skill ADC" will get crushed by the Diamond 3 level ADC though.

Would be ideal if we could get separate mmrs for roles but we can't, due to stuff like queue times and role-switching.

SubdueJul 21, 20171 votes

{quoted}

No idea. Depends on the person obviously.

This seems disingenuous to me, if you think a person can be Diamond 3 in one role while being below Plat 3 in another.

LostFr0stJul 21, 20171 votes

I mean, that's the whole reason why people one-trick roles and champs, because it's more consistent to climb like that. Each role takes a different skillset (of course some are similar like top/jg).

Playing all the different matchups in a role multiple times from both sides is what allows you to win those matchups against better players. I would actually find it more strange to have someone who is of identical skill in all roles tbh.

SubdueJul 21, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I mean, that's the whole reason why people one-trick roles and champs, because it's more consistent to climb like that. Each role takes a different skillset (of course some are similar like top/jg).

Playing all the different matchups in a role multiple times from both sides is what allows you to win those matchups against better players. I would actually find it more strange to have someone who is of identical skill in all roles tbh.

I agree, no one is identical in skill in all roles. However, that's not the point here.

After all, that's a discrepancy that can be said of the MMR system even as it stands. Remember, I didn't suggest that Ranked games ALWAYS affect normal MMR. I suggested that they should affect normal MMR when the difference between the Ranked MMR and the Normal MMr becomes significantly different. The assumption here, which I think is a pretty fair one, is that even messing around in an offrole, your average Diamond player is still at least as good as your average high Gold/low Platinum player, and having said Diamond player get normal queued into a game with a bunch of high Silver/low Gold players because he's only played 1 normal game since starting ranked and as such his normal MMR is way out of sync with his skill level is not fun for the other players in the game who are now getting stomped.

LostFr0stJul 22, 20171 votes

Ah that's a better explanation of what you meant. Idk why it didn't click 'till now for me.

Yeah, if that was the pull (i.e. very very slight) it would be ok. I don't know if people could have that pull implemented without overreacting though. They always do...

As an aside, People will also have to understand that there are indeed silver players who basically only play normals that have earned the normal mmr of actual diamond players who play normals (there is a subset of Diamonds that play normals mostly and just play ranked enough to avoid demotion).

Most of these players can be encountered if someone queues in sept-october, but also if you raise a smurf and get a super high winrate before lvl 30.

SchmidttyGamesJul 21, 20172 votes

Each should remain seperate. If you're taking Normals that seriously, you should just play ranked anyway. Normals are for practicing things in a reasonably competitive place. Even with Practice Tool and the laughable Intermediate/Beginner Bots, there are many things you can only work on against other people. Normals and Blinds are the avenues to do that.

SubdueJul 21, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=RAMP Schmidtty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5zbMy8eA,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-07-21T02:18:49.295+0000)

Each should remain seperate. If you're taking Normals that seriously, you should just play ranked anyway. Normals are for practicing things in a reasonably competitive place. Even with Practice Tool and the laughable Intermediate/Beginner Bots, there are many things you can only work on against other people. Normals and Blinds are the avenues to do that.

This isn't about taking Normals seriously. It's about improving matchmaking. Matchmaking relies on the expectation that once a player has played a significant number of games, they will make only incremental improvements in skill. For the most part (regardless of how badly people whine), the matchmaker is fairly good at this.

The problem arises when a player focuses on Ranked for a large number of games, resulting in a large increase in skill, and then plays a Normal game. As the Normal matchmaker has no idea about the large number of Ranked games played, it will match that with players that are at his skill level before he started playing ranked. This is a less fun experience both for the player and for the opposing team.

BIue MonkJul 21, 20171 votes

xDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

BIue MonkJul 21, 20171 votes

Let me rephrase. This obvious thread since 1982 ?

IncognonymousJul 21, 20171 votes

Absolutely.

It's such incredible bullshit getting matched waaay out of range in a Normals because some freak of nature only plays Ranked and has no Normals MMR. There's no fucking point when an actual in-game reference for your skill already exists.

WeatheredJul 21, 20171 votes

Normal MMR encompasses both blind and draft queue types, while ranked MMR is always a ban draft setting. They are two different queue type MMR's and make a difference if a person mains a highly banned champ that they only get to play in blind pick, like Yasuo for instance.

IncognonymousJul 21, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Normal MMR encompasses both blind and draft queue types, while ranked MMR is always a ban draft setting. They are two different queue type MMR's and make a difference if a person mains a highly banned champ that they only get to play in blind pick, like Yasuo for instance.

If someone mains a high ban rate champ, perhaps the universe is trying to tell them something.

Like they are scumbags who ruin other peoples' games by playing a champ who is inherently unfair or unfun to play against.

WeatheredJul 21, 20171 votes

Discussion dude, not hating on people who play champions that are annoying.

SubdueJul 21, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Normal MMR encompasses both blind and draft queue types, while ranked MMR is always a ban draft setting. They are two different queue type MMR's and make a difference if a person mains a highly banned champ that they only get to play in blind pick, like Yasuo for instance.

How is this relevant at all to my suggestion? Is there any situation, for example, where a Diamond player should be queued in normals with Silver players? That's what we're getting at. Notice I'm not using they use -the same- MMR. I'm saying if the difference between the two MMRs exceeds some reasonable threshold, ranked games should start affecting normal MMR as well, at least until the discrepancy is resolved.