Give trinity back to everyone instead of trying to make it a marksmen item.

Irelia Bot·Nov 17, 2015·179 votes·4,560 views

The rest of the markemsn item changes I don't care about, they are fine none of them seem that broken outside of a bit to much crit chance for a few of them but I hate having to rely on luck to even get a shot at the damage I was use too when using trinity after the changes. Yes #crithappens is a really bad reason to win or lose lane and it is extremely RNG when it is only 20% being bought.

And yes this is a downgrade from current rageblade which I know is over the top currently and the only think keeping Irelia and Jax in the game but I want to have a trinity that is worth coming back to before having to come back to it.

49 Comments

yay nibbersNov 17, 201522 votes

I miss the AP...

Doktor XNov 18, 20151 votes

There are 19 champions that don't use mana. There are 9 that don't use AP. Perhaps Riot should've made Sheen build out of an Amp Tome only.

SpoofghoulNov 17, 201520 votes

or how about we mix up item 3078 + item 3100 + item 3025 + item 1414

And name it quadrupleforce

zand89Nov 17, 20152 votes

Phreak approves, tons of damage!

Hello I am BirdNov 17, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Phreak approves, ~~tons~~ Puns of damage!

ftfy

NekusenNov 17, 20153 votes

{quoted}

or how about we mix up + + +

And name it quadrupleforce

item 3191 + item 3136 + item 3113 + item 3108 or + + + item 3101

[slayer-pantheon-rainbows]

48983507DEL1Nov 18, 20151 votes

You're obviously not a Zelda fan.

junglerboy16Nov 18, 20151 votes

Google "Tetraforce Theory"

Prepare to have your mind blown.

48983507DEL1Nov 20, 20151 votes

mind blown

Twitch ChatNov 17, 20157 votes

Its not even good on marksmen. 15% attack speed isn't desirable for any autoattacker. I find that statikk shiv consistently outperforms it.

Red RyuNov 17, 20159 votes

{quoted}

Its not even good on marksmen. 15% attack speed isn't desirable for any autoattacker. I find that statikk shiv consistently outperforms it.

Corki Ezreal debatably Lucian. Might be more than want to use it.

Twitch ChatNov 17, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Red Ryu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5oqx6lz1,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-11-17T16:57:33.515+0000)

Corki Ezreal debatably Lucian. Might be more than want to use it.

I'm going to give shiv corki a try when I get home tonight. As for the rest ezreal's dependence on triforce is a major weakness of the hero this patch and Lucian absolutely does not need it.

Really no reason to go out of the way to build it since it competes directly with shiv, hurricane, rapidfire and phantom dancer all of which provide more desirable stats for a ranged carry.

Red RyuNov 17, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I'm going to give shiv corki a try when I get home tonight. As for the rest ezreal's dependence on triforce is a major weakness of the hero this patch and Lucian absolutely does not need it.

Really no reason to go out of the way to build it since it competes directly with shiv, hurricane, rapidfire and phantom dancer all of which provide more desirable stats for a ranged carry.

I've built it on others.

Sivir to push better and have her W on a 3 second cooldown whiling fixing her mana.

Misfortune I only did to try out her ult on a 1 minute cooldown.

Triforce on MF is still an awful idea, her base AD is really bad now. She is going to need to invest in additional CDR.

Sivir I have not tried Triforce mostly since I wanted shiv over it.

WolfBVNov 18, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Its not even good on marksmen. 15% attack speed isn't desirable for any autoattacker. I find that statikk shiv consistently outperforms it.

It's used on some casters like Lucian and MissFortune along with item 3508 , but even then it's usually more beneficial to get an item 3031

Irelia BotNov 18, 20152 votes

{quoted}

It's used on some casters like and along with , but even then it's usually more beneficial to get an

MF with her insanely low base AD of 46 – 63 which in turn means only 126 damage form trinity spell blade procs at most? Yeah dream on with her actually being at all good with Trinity now.

Lucian is situational at best with it but he can get about as much from a Shiv for 1300 less gold which in turn allows him to start working on another item faster.

The only ADC who is evne going to want trinity most games is Ezreal. Everyone else gets more out of a crit build.

Beyond Ezreal it will be considered a improved option for Yasuo and GP that is it. Kog would get more from 30% attack speed and 30 on hit magic damage which in turn would actually help him against armor stackers a fair amount.

Red RyuNov 18, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5oqx6lz1,comment-id=000200010000,timestamp=2015-11-18T03:25:04.575+0000)

MF with her insanely low base AD of 46 – 63 which in turn means only 126 damage form trinity spell blade procs at most? Yeah dream on with her actually being at all good with Trinity now.

Lucian is situational at best with it but he can get about as much from a Shiv for 1300 less gold which in turn allows him to start working on another item faster.

The only ADC who is evne going to want trinity most games is Ezreal. Everyone else gets more out of a crit build.

Beyond Ezreal it will be considered a improved option for Yasuo and GP that is it. Kog would get more from 30% attack speed and 30 on hit magic damage which in turn would actually help him against armor stackers a fair amount.

It helps her get max CDR with 2 items.

Which is one benefit to it, given her ult ends up on a 66 second cooldown with that change that is sort of appealing.

Is it a good item on her without essence revere? Hell no.

It is an idea with her, but overall it is better to just go into Shiv or phantom dancer then death's dance imo.

WolfBVNov 19, 20151 votes

corki is also a user.

RysophageNov 17, 20156 votes

it's not even great on marksmans actually.

Envoy of DeathNov 17, 20154 votes

hey marksmen have only 4 zeal upgrade choices and thats not enough! fuck everyone else

Cyrus106Nov 17, 20153 votes

THIS SO MUCH THIS. Once they nerf rageblade(We all know they will) Irelia will be entirely weak, as an Irelia main this scares me. Either keep rageblade as it is (and nobody wants that) or give us our old trinity force back

KrinuNov 18, 20151 votes

Take her into the jungle.

Build Skirmisher->Devourer, Wit's End, Rageblade, Spirit Visage, Randuin's, and boots.

Proceed to destroy everyone and everything.

Cyrus106Nov 18, 20151 votes

Bruh you just included rageblade in the build. No shit it will destroy everything. My point is how fucked will irelia and jax be when they gut rage blade(and riot WILL gut it)

KrinuNov 19, 20151 votes

Given that devourer + wit's end + botrk was broken as hell before the patch, rageblade is just icing on the cake.

Pierce The VealNov 17, 20153 votes

By removing the ap they made it more undesirable to hybrid champions (trinity force akali RIP) By removing 15% attack speed and 5 ad they made it less desirable to many autoattackera.

I'm not really sure what adding 10% cdr and crit chance accomplished for them.

The LovelessNov 17, 20151 votes

Better for spam casters like Ez and Corki, basically.

LovelleNov 18, 20151 votes

{quoted}

By removing the ap they made it more undesirable to hybrid champions (trinity force akali RIP) By removing 15% attack speed and 5 ad they made it less desirable to many autoattackera.

I'm not really sure what adding 10% cdr and crit chance accomplished for them.

GP still likes the Trinity, especially the new Sheen.

Pierce The VealNov 18, 20151 votes

{quoted}

GP still likes the Trinity, especially the new Sheen.

The new Trinity has 10% moree crit.

He doesn't just "like" it.

Noam2KillNov 17, 20152 votes

It's good on garen

AdderTudeNov 18, 20152 votes

I build Trinity Force on Gangplank. It's not a great ADC item in the first place, as there are at least two better options, namely item 3094 and item 3087 . I tend to build on Tristana a lot.

Irelia BotNov 18, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I build Trinity Force on Gangplank. It's not a great ADC item in the first place, as there are at least two better options, namely and . I tend to build on Tristana a lot.

GP and Yasup are literally the only 2 champs that all around benefited from the changes.

ItsStoutNov 18, 20152 votes

Crit isn't entirely useless on bruisers, who rely on longer fights. Thats what makes the RNG okay- it isnt really RNG in longer fights.

Either way, I actually like the new Triforce on champions I buy it on. Jax and Irelia bought it for a mix of stats, which Rageblade provides (and still will provide. Jax is gonna build Rageblade unless it gets gutted), but some other toplaners can buy the item, such as Trundle, Dr. Mundo (its actually great on him, since he cant really buy IBG), AD Fizz, AD Ekko (a bastardized AD Fizz that may be better now... try it :) ). And its not like Jax and Irelia are barred from the item- they can still get it.

Overall, Triforce feels nice (10% cdr is great and makes it comparable to Cleaver for champs like Trundle, and 20% crit is a much rounder number with less RNG) and fits a wider cast of champions. It may be overshadowed by Rageblade in some areas, but its still a good buy on many champions and still fits the "kinda works on everyone" that the item was meant to achive.

RebonackNov 17, 20151 votes

Replacing the Zeal with either item 1043 or item 3101 both seem like they would be better options for most of the cast.

If it misses the movespeed too much, just buff the Rage passive a bit.

LordKentravyonNov 17, 20151 votes

Teemo Compensation buffs where? item 3085

RisenDarkKnightNov 17, 20154 votes

item 3124 is Teemo's compensation buff.

NGNL AsianNov 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Compensation buffs where?

OH SHIT. NO NO NO NO

TurquoiseYoshiNov 18, 20151 votes

RIP Sheen. Everyone (except people who already bought Lich Bane) hate the changes.

Restless SlumberNov 18, 20151 votes

I mostly miss the movespeed for udyr and hecarim. I also really miss zephyr for those 2. Why are they making it so hard to attain movespeed now?

bourbonownsNov 18, 20151 votes

Logged in to upvote this

New Trinity isn't even good for marksmen. The only two champions who appreciate the Trinity changes are Yasuo and Gangplank .

It's no good for Ezreal. He desperately needs the Attack Speed Trinity Force used to provide. Now that it only gives 15% his auto attack DPS is a lot lower, making the added Crit less useful on him. With 0.4 / 0.8 / 0.8 / 0.9 AP ratios, he seriously misses the 30 AP as it increased the damage of his W E R by quite a bit, and added 12 damage to Mystic Shot as well which is a longsword worth of damage.

Cork is focused on Magic DPS now and he too liked the AP on the item. Jax and Irelia also do not itemize for additional crit and preferred the attack speed and AP as well.

I wouldn't count on Riot reverting their changes because they are literally beyond stubborn but I don't feel anyone at Riot thought the Trinity Force changes through. If they wanted it to be an ADC item why did they nerf the AD and Attack Speed on it AND increase the cost of the item, while introducing RFC and Shiv with more crit and Attack Speed at a far more reasonable price? The only reason Ezreal bothers buying it is because his Mystic Shot is balanced around him having a Sheen item and without Sheen the damage and scaling is pitiful.

Riot for the love of god if you don't change anything else this patch please revert Trinity Force back to the way it was. Irelia , Jax , and Ezreal need this item to be the way it was. There is no fucking way that bastard of a champion Yasuo needed any more itemization catered specifically to him. It's completely outrageous.

MaikalNov 18, 20151 votes

They should just remove it's crit all together in exchange for attack speed and maybe AD. It benefits both fighters and marksmen. Fighters for obvious reasons, and marksmen because having only 15% attack speed on that item is actually very awkward. If you're building triforce on a marksmen, chances are you're buying infinity edge and essence reaver too. That's 40% crit as is, you don't have room in your build to also get a lifesteal, attack speed item, boots, and armour pen (Unless you're going to go blade of the ruined king, which got gutted and probably shouldn't be bought ever except on the champions that it was core on before). The triforce needs to be that attack speed item.

Irelia BotNov 18, 20151 votes

{quoted}

They should just remove it's crit all together in exchange for attack speed and maybe AD. It benefits both fighters and marksmen. Fighters for obvious reasons, and marksmen because having only 15% attack speed on that item is actually very awkward. If you're building triforce on a marksmen, chances are you're buying infinity edge and essence reaver too. That's 40% crit as is, you don't have room in your build to also get a lifesteal, attack speed item, boots, and armour pen (Unless you're going to go blade of the ruined king, which got gutted and probably shouldn't be bought ever except on the champions that it was core on before). The triforce needs to be that attack speed item.

I would actaully really like if they made it more clearly a hybrid on-hit item by doing the following Sheen now has 5% movement speed instead of 10% CDR Replace Zeal with Recurve Bow.

Recurve Bow (1000) + Sheen (1050) + Phage (1250) + (390)= Trinity Force (3690) price may vary but jsut an idea. 250 Health 250 Mana 7% movement speed 30% attack speed 15 AD Unique passive: 30 on hit-magic damage Unique Passive - spellblade: after using an ability the next auto in 10 seconds applies 200% base AD on hit. 1.5 second CD Unique passive - rage: Basic attacks (on-hit) grant +20 flat movement speed for 2 seconds. Killing a Unit grants +60 flat movement speed instead. This amount if halved for ranged champsions.

It would be bought, it would not scale well with other items damage wise besides Sterak's and attack speed. But it would clearly have the power to justify being bought especially on fighters who only get one or 2 damage items and have solid base AD.

Nearly all who have classically gotten Trinity would be completely fine with a change like this and it would put some life into hybrid damage dealers that has not been seen in years.

Red RyuNov 18, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5oqx6lz1,comment-id=000d0000,timestamp=2015-11-18T03:06:32.407+0000)

I would actaully really like if they made it more clearly a hybrid on-hit item by doing the following Sheen now has 5% movement speed instead of 10% CDR Replace Zeal with Recurve Bow.

Recurve Bow (1000) + Sheen (1050) + Phage (1250) + (390)= Trinity Force (3690) price may vary but jsut an idea. 250 Health 250 Mana 7% movement speed 30% attack speed 15 AD Unique passive: 30 on hit-magic damage Unique Passive - spellblade: after using an ability the next auto in 10 seconds applies 200% base AD on hit. 1.5 second CD Unique passive - rage: Basic attacks (on-hit) grant +20 flat movement speed for 2 seconds. Killing a Unit grants +60 flat movement speed instead. This amount if halved for ranged champsions.

It would be bought, it would not scale well with other items damage wise besides Sterak's and attack speed. But it would clearly have the power to justify being bought especially on fighters who only get one or 2 damage items and have solid base AD.

Nearly all who have classically gotten Trinity would be completely fine with a change like this and it would put some life into hybrid damage dealers that has not been seen in years.

I like the idea of trinity force being an AD caster item for sheen procs and Lich Bane the AP variant, with ice born as the tank one.

Your item honestly doesn't sound as appealing and rather fits into a farther niche than old one did.

I know some people want more AS on it and removing CDR with crit.

If you are AA heavy at all and use abilities reasonably I think the item still works on champions that used it, before the AP was just for random AP scaling champions had, now it fits a tad better.

Wouldn't a single crit off this item make up for the AP damage or extra you would get from it before? The aa on hit part doesn't fit as well and seems to make this more niche than what people claim with it working towards marksmen right now.

Reaper ReviewNov 18, 20151 votes

Stinger

Recipe: Dagger x2 (600) + 500 = 1100

+40% Attack Speed

Unique Passive: +10% Cooldown Reduction

Trinity Force

Recipe: Sheen (1050) + Phage (1250) + Stinger (1100) + 300 = 3700

+250 Health +250 Mana +30 Attack Damage +40% Attack Speed +20% Cooldown Reduction +7% Movement Speed

Unique Passive - Rage: Basic attacks (on-hit) grant +20 flat Movement Speed for 2 seconds. Killing a unit grants +60 flat Movement Speed instead. Movement bonuses are halved for ranged champions.

Unique Passive - Spellblade: After using an ability, your next basic attack (on-hit) deals (200% Base AD) bonus Physical Damage (1.5 second cooldown).

I like the idea of Trinity Force having 20% CDR instead of crit chance. Really emphasizing the usage of Spellblade procs to provide its DPS instead of critical strikes. That, and Sheen/Phage/Stinger is three weapons, so it looks nicer (Zeal's icon consists of two swords).

As for AP, I really don't see the urgent need for a meager 30 AP on an item that's rarely ever complemented with additional meaningful AP purchases. If anything, Sheen could have a mini-upgrade built from it and Amp Tome that grants a mini-Lich Bane proc, and THAT item could go into Runeglaive and Lich Bane. Like how we have Bilgewater Cutlass. (Ignoring the fact that Runeglaive is a completely awful item right now. That's not important to this discussion.)

Irelia BotNov 18, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Reaper Review,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5oqx6lz1,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2015-11-18T03:39:18.065+0000)

Stinger

Recipe: Dagger x2 (600) + 500 = 1100

+40% Attack Speed

Unique Passive: +10% Cooldown Reduction

Trinity Force

Recipe: Sheen (1050) + Phage (1250) + Stinger (1100) + 300 = 3700

+250 Health +250 Mana +30 Attack Damage +40% Attack Speed +20% Cooldown Reduction +7% Movement Speed

Unique Passive - Rage: Basic attacks (on-hit) grant +20 flat Movement Speed for 2 seconds. Killing a unit grants +60 flat Movement Speed instead. Movement bonuses are halved for ranged champions.

Unique Passive - Spellblade: After using an ability, your next basic attack (on-hit) deals (200% Base AD) bonus Physical Damage (1.5 second cooldown).

I like the idea of Trinity Force having 20% CDR instead of crit chance. Really emphasizing the usage of Spellblade procs to provide its DPS instead of critical strikes. That, and Sheen/Phage/Stinger is three weapons, so it looks nicer (Zeal's icon consists of two swords).

As for AP, I really don't see the urgent need for a meager 30 AP on an item that's rarely ever complemented with additional meaningful AP purchases. If anything, Sheen could have a mini-upgrade built from it and Amp Tome that grants a mini-Lich Bane proc, and THAT item could go into Runeglaive and Lich Bane. Like how we have Bilgewater Cutlass. (Ignoring the fact that Runeglaive is a completely awful item right now. That's not important to this discussion.)

The main issue is that CDR is fairly easy to get from other items. Get a Frozen heart + SV + death's dance/Ghostblade/Ionian boots and you have 40% without having to give up much of anything that you wouldn't already consider getting. And I will still be getting a Frozen heart and SV most games if it goes on long enough meaning that the 20% you are suggesting would in turn make other item options less appealing.

I was not suggesting AP to return but to instead have 30 on hit magic damage and for trinity to be an on-hit focused item. This is reasonable for replacing crit chance and the 30 AP it use to have damage wise.

Also that 7% MS appearing out of nowhere does not fit Trinity in your concept. All of trinity's stats are found on one of the base items in some way or another.

DengedenNov 18, 20151 votes

Champions reliant on the old Trinity were really hard to balance (sounds strangely familiar ... nah). The components were too gold efficient and completing the item was a huge power spike. Why do you think Irelia was considered an issue?

AL000Nov 18, 20151 votes

tf seems not for adc... honestly... but if they refused to change tf then we need one for bruiser too...

how about this?

item 3057 + item 3067 + 950 1050 + 800

+800 health +800 mana +20% cooldown reduction

UNIQUE – SPELLBLADE: After using an ability, your next basic attack (on-hit) deals 200% base attack damage as bonus physical damage. (1 second cooldown)

2800

it would be prefect item for any bruiser except manaless champion...

NemeBroNov 18, 20151 votes

http://champion.gg/champion/Irelia

Notice how most Irelias aren't building Rageblade, nor is it the highest win percent build. She has a 53% win rate. Oh poor nerfed Irelia, faring so poorly with the nerfed Triforce. =,(

Irelia BotNov 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

http://champion.gg/champion/Irelia

Notice how most Irelias aren't building Rageblade, nor is it the highest win percent build. She has a 53% win rate. Oh poor nerfed Irelia, faring so poorly with the nerfed Triforce. =,(

Many are still leaning about Rageblade on Irelia but many of the better known Irelia players Like Irelia Carries U are swearing that Rageblade is overall better then Trinity for rushing and it is overall more damage for 65.7% of the cost.

NemeBroNov 19, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5oqx6lz1,comment-id=00130000,timestamp=2015-11-19T01:38:08.845+0000)

Many are still leaning about Rageblade on Irelia but many of the better known Irelia players Like Irelia Carries U are swearing that Rageblade is overall better then Trinity for rushing and it is overall more damage for 65.7% of the cost.

Rageblade being better is fine and dandy (I tried it once on Irelia in an ARAM and liked it), but the fact of the matter is that Irelia is still doing well with just triforce.

So what is your problem?

NGNL AsianNov 20, 20151 votes

You are right because people like Garen Garen and Nasus Nasus need this. Nasus needs it for his E and to increase his tank powers