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Mira Arya Enthe··12 votes·1,527 views

Riven's "Valor" shield is the only form of tankiness and survivability in her kit. She has some of the lowest sustain of any top laner, she has no HP regen compared to others, no natural healing, lifesteal or spellvamp. Baseline she has a lot less base tanking stats. And no other tanking steroid in her kit. Suggestions to increase the cooldown of her only way to dodge damage in top lane, or to nerf it so it's only an all in tool, are literally asking for a gutting.

Yesterday I was watching some Riven streams, and I noticed every time the Riven came out even or slightly ahead on HP they said they lost the trade. Why? Because every other major top laner will get that HP back before the minion wave finishes. Whether it is Trynd's Q or Darius Q or Poppy's shield and insane HP regen and W or just lifesteal. Top laners need ways to mitigate damage. And Valor is Riven's only tool for that. Her high mobility is also her only tool to escape ganks. She cannot just Q and get all her HP back like Darius then double kill. She runs away.

But this goes beyond laning. Riven's only tanking steroid in team fights is a shield that only lasts 1.5 seconds. Which is insanely short compared to many other shields with 3-7 second durations. Again, her only survival tool. So what does it get? A shorter cooldown than MOST shields. Not all of them.

If I could suggest a fix for Riven? Everyone knows what it is. Remove animation cancelling. She does shit in Bronze where people don't know how to use it(45% or less win rates) and too good in Diamond where people do(53% or higher win rates). Removing this turns her into a normal fighter, who can(if necessary) be rebalanced with higher base stats to compensate the sudden inability to burst. She becomes a sustained fighter with mobility and CC and a timed dodge/block, but less base tankiness and sustain than others.

Pros: Makes her easy to balance. Fixes her being OP in high tiers and trash in low tiers. Makes her a sustained fighter, not an assassin. Doesn't touch her only form of damage mitigation(dodging and shielding with E) Keeps the character fantasy and baseline gameplay.

Cons: Lowers her skill cap. BoxBox probably quits. High tier players start saying Blizzard is dumbing the game down. Low tier players still call her OP despite her having a 45-49% win rate in their bracket and call for more nerfs anyway. Probably never used in top tier/LCS again like most melee tops.

46 Comments

Ahristocats5 votes

they nerfed yasuo shield cooldown and hp, i see no problem in doing it for riven at least remove/reduce her shield when she dashes backward a champ

Mira Arya Enthe2 votes

Yasuo has more lane sustain and another way to mitigate damage(windwall). Yasuo also has more mobility in lane than Riven. If you watch BoxBox vs Yasuo games in high tier, it is up to BoxBox to make 0 mistakes or he loses, whereas the Yasuo can make multiple mistakes and still win.

Ahristocats4 votes

windwall has 26 seconds cd and only mitigate projectiles which is funny considering toplane has almost no projectiles and midlaners will stop attacking during windwall

and Yasuo doesn't have lane sustain, warlord is stupid and i'm sure riot will remove the lifesteal on minions

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5nLxvET6,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-12-25T18:01:48.818+0000)

Yasuo also has more mobility in lane than Riven.

and? we're talking about shielding issues that riven has making her almost impossible to lane against Yasuo, riven, and now camille are all stupid because of their shield+mobility making trading against them 90% impossible

Mira Arya Enthe2 votes

http://champion.gg/champion/Yasuo

http://champion.gg/champion/Riven

http://champion.gg/champion/Camille

They all have pretty even win rates, but Riven's is the lowest and considering she has among the most experience players in LoL. On top of that, I expect Camille's to continue rising unless nerfed, as people get use to her. Yet I have no problem with the other two, Yasuo and Riven, because they aren't even close to OP.

No projectiles in top lane...

Riven ult Jayce Quinn Rumble E Akali Q DrMundo Cleavers Gangplank Q Gnar Illaoi Pull Irelia Ult Kayle Q Kennen Kled Chain Malphite Q Maokai Q and E I believe Olaf Axes Pantheon Spears Poppy Passive Shyvana E Sion Minion launcher Swain TahmKench Q Taliyah Urgot Yasuo Tornado Yorick E?

TheTarians2 votes

Edit Rumble, only his E counts as a projectile. His Q and R count as AoE abilities.

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

Edited. I don't own Rumble.

ACENOX2 votes

we don't care about win rate

rengar has 45% win rate and he is nerfed for a reason same for azir (before) and leblanc who had 44% win rate for 2 years darius had 49% win rate and was nerfed in season 3 where they removed his ability to reset

want me to continue? win rate never meant shit ask olaf

Best princess EU1 votes

it doesn't matter, windwall isn't going to make you win trades against all those toplaners and you can't windwall a projectile in 1v1 fight against a melee because it has a minimum range

wow, people never playing toplane is sure nice

and holy fuck, kayle E is a projectile now? what the actual fuck dude

Apocalypsic4 votes

As a Riv player i'm pretty biased but honestly I think Riven is currently fine, animation canceling included.

Making her simpler and removing animation canceling is a bad move not only because it makes her incredibly unique, but it also gates her power behind experience so you can't just pick her up like Darius and smash people on your first game.

Imagine Riven with her current power, but without the need for incredibly pin point timings and on the fly cancels, she'd be flat out broken.

I for one think she's balanced as is and quite enjoyable as well.

Mira Arya Enthe2 votes

I agree. But people are making suggestions on the boards that Riven is some all in Shyvana/Kled style champion and thus should have her shield dash gutted unless using it towards an enemy.

Apocalypsic3 votes

The people on the boards are wrong then lol.

Riven's true strength in lane lies in her ability to continually take small trades or punish mispositioning and ready someone for the kill. If you stayed in lane at half health close to a Riven say around level six, at least e-flash range, you deserve to die.

In no way is Riven meant to be a "Go in until they die or I die" champ like Shyv or Kled.

KaRniVooL132 votes

imagine that people on the boards are wrong?

riven isnt that good right now she has a sub 50% win rate... her going tanky isnt ideal but right now going 18 in resolve and getting CoC has the highest win % for masteries .

but her damage lacks.

Handy Sandy 3 votes

You sound like you know what you're talking about, so +1 :D

Now wait a day and your post will have like 60 something upvotes

Mira Arya Enthe2 votes

I appreciate it. I try to put effort into my serious, non-troll posts.

Stephenizgod3 votes

The issue I have with Riven's shield is it is both Mobility and Survive-ability all in one ability. It scales with her primary stat, has a fairly good cool down, and can block a decent amount of damage at all stages of the game. All on a champion capable of literally 100-0ing half a team instantly.

I am all for her having a Shield when she goes in, but when she runs, she doesn't deserve a shield for that. It also shouldn't scale with AD in my opinion, but I ain't on Riot's balance team so what do I know.

Also yes, remove her animation cancelling, they are removing it on other champions why does she get special treatment?

Mira Arya Enthe2 votes

All AP caster shields scale with their primary stats. The second she removes animation cancelling she cannot burst an 'entire team instantly' aka her team bursts you and she happens to ult and get the kill on 2-3 people.

She needs the shield when she runs. Again, it is her only survivability spell. Is the ability to dodge and shield.

Stephenizgod3 votes

True but AD also takes objectives faster, is harder to itemize against late game, scales with attack speed, crit, and lifesteal, effects both abilities and auto-attacks, etc. I am not saying AD > AP, but AD has many more uses outside just more powerful abilities, which is what AP does. Ap champs have AP scaling shields because they have weak auto-attacks, are not as effective against tanks/bruisers (unless you have %Hp damage, but AD champs have that too), and they cost mana to do anything useful as far as objectives/teamfighting.

Riven has no resource, high mobility, massive damage/burst, she has AoE CC, and a % HP damage execute. Even if she is behind she can still help with objective control and clearing waves because she will always have auto-attacks. An AD scaling shield is not a good idea on a snowbally champ like Riven because it makes dealing with her too difficult if she gets even slightly ahead. Just to be clear though, I don't think she is OP or broken, she does have bad design in her shield though. There is no real punishment for using it improperly unless you don't have it before going into a teamfight which just makes you bad at Riven. Riven should be an all-in type of champion, she gets a shield when dodging into a fight but not when running away. This would mean Riven needs to seriously think before she acts instead of smashing buttons and watching people disappear.

Removing her animation cancelling would probably make her garbage, it needs to be done, but they will need to compensation buff her. I think if they also removed her shield AD scaling or only made it so when she went towards an enemy, they could remove some of the unintended and frustrating strengths of Riven and focus her more on what she is actually strong at.

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

The idea that Riven was ever meant to be all in is false. She isn't Kled or Shyvana. She is based on fighting games. Her gameplay is based on being illusive, combo based, out-skill usage of abilities. Not just another walk-at-and-push-buttons bruiser like my main, Shyvana.

Killing using her E for timed blocking, escaping and chasing kills the champion design.

Removing animation cancelling fixes her problems and only requires compensation buffs to her base tankiness so she can survive her sustained combat design post AC removal.

You one of those "gut, gut more then more because I don't like it." People. Who cannot be trusted in terms of balance suggestions.

Animation canceling alone is the problem with Riven. Her E isn't. I could name the things any champion does then mention how one ability SEEMS bloated to make it sound like bad design. With literally any champion.

Fix animation canceling. You fix Riven.

P.s. AP kills towers nearly as fast, in some cases faster in lichbane designs for example.

Riven doesn't build crit or AS so mentioning them is pointless.

Stephenizgod3 votes

Her shield is why she will always be an all in champion, it is massive and allows her at least 2 seconds to get her full combo off when combined with her W. Removing animation cancelling will just make her useless in trades since she can no longer instantly proc thunderlords. Buff her tankiness and she will be unkillable and unstoppable because that shield gets way too big if she gets the tiniest of leads.

I am not saying gut her, you are just reading it that way. I am saying remove unintended strengths and buff her core strengths. That is not gutting her, that is buffing her correctly.

P.S. exceptions do not make a fact any less true.

i did't say she did, I said AD scales with them, it is 100% relevant because you randomly brought in AP scaling shields which was pointless in the first place because AP and AD champions have different strengths and weaknesses.

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

lol ok.

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Wonderful Cat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5nLxvET6,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2016-12-25T19:33:32.857+0000)

The people on the boards are wrong then lol.

Riven's true strength in lane lies in her ability to continually take small trades or punish mispositioning and ready someone for the kill. If you stayed in lane at half health close to a Riven say around level six, at least e-flash range, you deserve to die.

In no way is Riven meant to be a "Go in until they die or I die" champ like Shyv or Kled.

This guy gets it.

Apocalypsic2 votes

:"3

Stephenizgod1 votes

Lol ok good for that guy/girl you share the same opinion that totally makes me wrong automatically...

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

That is what Riven does and has always done. She isn't meant to be all in unless it is a clearly advantageous fight, and anybody would all in that.

Stephenizgod1 votes

except that every Riven ever goes all in because massive shield and isnta-burst damage... again not saying she is OP because she isn't but that shield is a bullshit ability.

repeating the same stuff over and over again, is pointless, lets just agree to disagree on this particular matter

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

You don't watch any Rivens and have never played her have you? You cannot all in most melee top laners as her until you have a clear HP advantage. And without flash and summoners you aren't all in on a ranged without a health advantage.

Stephenizgod1 votes

Ok... well I will just say it was nice talking to you and have a nice day.

Apocalypsic3 votes

I'm fine to agree to disagree.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions.

Stephenizgod1 votes

Agreed :D

Apocalypsic2 votes

I have near 1M mastery, it's not as if I'm speaking out of my ass.

Stephenizgod1 votes

nope but it does make you biased, also didn't say you were wrong, but using your comment was irrelevant to our conversation. Showing me that someone agrees with them doesn't prove them or you right, just like having upvotes/downvotes doesn't prove you wrong or right.

TyrekGoldenspear2 votes

Nice to see you making these posts again. Especially as a drop of sugar flavored oil in the salty seas of Riven haters.

I never found Riven as too much of a problem, however an incident involving a Riven now leaves me auto tilted when they pick a certain skin.

Other than that she's fine. She needs to snowball so denying her kills would make her not so unbearable midgame.

Mira Arya Enthe2 votes

Oh? Which skin?

On that note. Riven is healthy in the sense that if you get fed you can carry, but since you are squishy and melee you can still fuck up and lose. If you fall behind you do no damage, unlike some hypercarries who still become nightmarish mid game.

She is unhealthy in that animation canceling lets a fed Riven become an assassin in terms of burst.

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

Well, it was when I was level 15.

My first PvP game, was top lane and ended up against a Riven.

Never saw Riven before, so I looked her up real quick. Turned out the site said one of her counters was Garen.

I thought, "Hey, I play Garen all the time and I demolish bots, so this will be easy!"

I thought it was odd that she had a particular skin. Battle Bunny. I honestly thought she was rather hot in that skin.

0/5/0. The rest is history, and from then on I have always tilted when facing or having a Riven with that skin.

Hauling Ashe2 votes

People who complain about Riven have never had first pick top lane.

Penns1 votes

Luckily item 3071 item 3074 item 3748 item 3053 item 3156 item 3814 item 3026 item 3047 item 3111 item 3812 item 3072 .... all exist tho

Mira Arya Enthe2 votes

Yes, but anybody with in-kit sustain can also build those. Those do not help until you have a completed item, and again, anybody can buy them.

Keira Helsh3 votes

{quoted}

Luckily item 3071 item 3074 item 3748 item 3053 item 3156 item 3814 item 3026 item 3047 item 3111 item 3812 item 3072 .... all exist tho

Yeah sure, let me go into lane against someone like darius, and I don't have Boxbox level Riven skill. It's fine though, I'll just buy one of these sustain items... Oh, you mean that he bullied me out of lane so much that I can't afford it before he's bought two completed items? Okay...

Penns1 votes

Well 1) Darius is kinda broken and 2) If youre good with Riven you shit on him, so...?

bbQsauçe1 votes

[deleted]

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

Self peeling yes. Tanking steroid no. She is a fighter not an ADC.

bbQsauçe1 votes

[deleted]

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

And yet saw a win rate and play rate drop this patch, is banned 20% as often as Yasuo, and is rated as a mid-tier top laner for plat+. kay

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