PSA reminder about assassins

Very Hard Engage·Oct 25, 2016·12 votes·904 views

their primary objective is to get in, finish off low hp targets, and get out.

not 100-0 or brawl whoever they want in a 1v1 setting on the enemy team.

i recognize if you cant 1v1 anyone you feel powerless or not useful to the team, i get that, i really do. but you have to understand this is a team based game, and the goal is to take the enemy nexus however you deem appropriate.

assassins try to break the fundamentals of the game, "you cant lose because the enemy is already dead, and there was no resistance left"

so your primary targets should be the mid laner or the adc, naturally, you prey on them. just dont expect to always win 1v1 and hold permanent advantages over them. dont feel like you're supposed to be able to win all engagements.

im astounded by the amount of raw damage assassins hold, its absurd at this point. assassins should be mobile and "mechanics" not "lul ur dead"

27 Comments

ff4skOct 25, 20165 votes

The main purpose of an assassin, the literal definition is the act of assassinating someone. In league of legends, the target being either the ADC or mid, both deal insane amounts of damage if left alive.

The assassin has to outsmart his opponent, get in close, and take out the threat. Both ADC and mid can quite easily kill the assassin if they position themselves well and not rush in first.

{quoted}

their primary objective is to get in, finish off low hp targets, and get out.

Yeah so squishes, ADC or mid

not 100-0 or brawl whoever they want in a 1v1 setting on the enemy team.

But they can't "brawl whoever they want" they specifically have to target squishes that deal absurd amounts of damage if left alive

i recognize if you cant 1v1 anyone you feel powerless or not useful to the team, i get that, i really do. but you have to understand this is a team based game, and the goal is to take the enemy nexus however you deem appropriate.

So you think taking out a threat that's dealing absurd amounts of damage to your team in a teamfight isn't part of a team game?

assassins try to break the fundamentals of the game, "you cant lose because the enemy is already dead, and there was no resistance left"

What do you mean break the fundamentals of the game? killing is part of the game, it puts people behind, secures objectives, and wins games.

so your primary targets should be the mid laner or the adc, naturally, you prey on them. just dont expect to always win 1v1 and hold permanent advantages over them. dont feel like you're supposed to be able to win all engagements.

? Nobody expects to win a 1v1 unless they have an advantage over the enemy, have you played an assassin before? do you know how bursting someone down works? do you think we just jump at whoever we see and kill them instantly disregarding their build, abilities, and level?

im astounded by the amount of raw damage assassins hold, its absurd at this point. assassins should be mobile and "mechanics" not "lul ur dead"

ADC and mages hold a lot more damage, Assassins just focus what damage they have on 1 target and get out of the fight, they don't try getting a triple or something like an adc or a mid can, we can only do that if fed, an adc can still dps and kite, most mages have hard cc which helps them stun an enemy, assassins have to get close and not die instantly to assassinate someone.

Shit I mean even some bruisers hold more damage than assassins, do I need to start listing them? take ekko for example, take riven, take yasuo, shit take xin zhao, or jax, or fiora.

Assassins don't have efficient/consistent damage, they have to work with whatever little burst they have to kill an adc that can kite and kill them in 4-3 autos, most assassins need a full rotation to kill an adc

Very Hard EngageOct 25, 20161 votes

you haven't been paying attention have you

this is about the future assassin rework, riot is giving certain ones targeted nukes, like rengar, or khazix.

they're walking, invisible, point and click, burst ad mages. thats exactly how they're going to play out too. no autos or skill needed.

assassins need ins and outs, resets, and mobility. not high burst damage

the purpose of a counterbuild, is to stop what you were trying to do, at the expense of what im suposed to do, and new assassins are going to wreck every counterbuild known to man and still threaten tanks they're so powerful.

PermabannedGarenOct 25, 20164 votes

{quoted}

you haven't been paying attention have you

this is about the future assassin rework, riot is giving certain ones targeted nukes, like rengar, or khazix.

they're walking, invisible, point and click, burst ad mages. thats exactly how they're going to play out too. no autos or skill needed.

assassins need ins and outs, resets, and mobility. not high burst damage

the purpose of a counterbuild, is to stop what you were trying to do, at the expense of what im suposed to do, and new assassins are going to wreck every counterbuild known to man and still threaten tanks they're so powerful.

You have no idea what you're talking about friend. Kha's burst is being lowered across the board, and assassins are defined as having high mobility and burst damage.

it be lìke thatOct 26, 20162 votes

he plays velkoz and ahri, he is just sad he probably cant nuke them in 2 spells anymore by charming/ deathbeaming under turret now.

Very Hard EngageOct 26, 20161 votes

you do realize i have literally 0 complaints about picking up cho, galio, or lissandra mid against you dirty assassin only mains. i will figure out what puts all of you into the dirt one way or the other. its only a matter of time.

the major complaint is you are completely dependent on the one arch type of - "delete enemy no remaining opposition". and the moment you have to try anything else you outright lose the game. you cant make strategic decisions, you cant work in a team, you are solely reliant on the champion and its oppressive actions to come out ahead.

PermabannedGarenOct 26, 20161 votes

{quoted}

you do realize i have literally 0 complaints about picking up cho, galio, or lissandra mid against you dirty assassin only mains. i will figure out what puts all of you into the dirt one way or the other. its only a matter of time.

the major complaint is you are completely dependent on the one arch type of - "delete enemy no remaining opposition". and the moment you have to try anything else you outright lose the game. you cant make strategic decisions, you cant work in a team, you are solely reliant on the champion and its oppressive actions to come out ahead.

The player you are responding to is a Zac main.

Very Hard EngageOct 26, 20161 votes

and thats better how? meta slave dependent on power picks?

foo ill pick what i want

TequilaZombieOct 25, 20164 votes

I feel like assassins should pack enough raw damage to take out an ADC or a Squishy Mage in one combo. It's the entire purpose of their kits and they don't offer anything else other than that. With that said, I feel like there should be enough counterplay to assassins.

An ADC who's caught walking alone should die in most situations (unless you're a Vayne and stuns the assassin against the wall, or is an Ashe who ults, etc), same goes for a squishy mage that just wasted a spell or two for farming.

Most other classes offer something else beyond burst, even when packing some decent amount of it. Assassins double down on the burst aspect, with some mobility to allow them to get to their targets, so I don't think it's unfair for them to be able to 100-0 a squishy. A mage can have a much bigger impact on a team fight than an assassin could ever hope to.

Very Hard EngageOct 25, 20161 votes

and 1500 hp should be considered low hp. but the assassins shouldn't be dealing significantly more than that amount +/-

but actively counterbuilding isn't enough when the assassins combo deals over 2600 damage.

was watching new rengar one shot a leblanc (with a a zhonyas, but didn't use the active) with his leap from ult alone, didn't have to use his Q, W, or E for any additional damage. it only makes me question just how much damage can they put out under the right circumstances.

TequilaZombieOct 25, 20162 votes

So he one shot a LB with only 1 auto? The only situation in which this is possible is if the LB is far behind at the same time that Rengar is fed with all the stacks on his passive. At a similar point, most burst champions will be able to one shot squishy targets (looking at you, you tiny bastard! Veigar ).

An assassin who's building for the exact purpose of one shotting targets should be able to quickly take out a squishy in a 1v1. A 1500 damage burst won't do shit once late game comes. Even if he dealt 1500 true damage with his kit, most ADCs would still live even while building no defense at all. If you're actively counterbuilding against an assassin as an ADC, this usually means 2 defensive items. Building 2 items shouldn't be enough to put a champion into an useless scenario, specially when he's going to have 5 items dedicated to killing you.

It's just the core of the game stats. Offensive stats outscale defensive ones. If you're an ADC who hopes to deal damage (i.e. not building 5 tank items), an assassin will be able to kill you in 90% of the circunstances. You need your team to help you out, not trust on a random Randuin's stuck in your build.

Assassins are in a healthy state when they can take on a lone squishy without much problems, but are not able to do so when the squishy's team is actively peeling them away.

One of the core problems with League's community (at least in my opinion) is that they want their "fantasy" about the champion/role they are playing to be fail proof.

Mages need to deal high AoE damage, provide tons of utility and be able to get away from bad situations via CC or mobility.

Tanks need to never die, even while being focused by 5 enemies and CC them long enough for their team to arrive, all that while doing some respectable damage.

Fighters need to be the Gods of 1v1, while being strong in team fights and capable of defeating enemies even during numeric disadvantages.

Marksman need to be able to deal absurds amounts of damage while being able to help themselves out of any situation, while hopefully killing their attacker in the proccess.

Assassins need to be able to 1 shot their targets in 1 second or less, while also having a way to easily get out of the fight, even if there are 4 heavy CC champions around.

This is the kind of mentality that makes everyone unhappy. Champions should not excel in any situation, hell, scratch that, champions should not be able to survive any situation.

If you are a Veigar caught by himself by a Zed, you should die. If you are a Trynd who just used his E+W to engage alone and is now being kited by 5 man, you should die. If you are an ADC and our team is not holding that Darius away, you should die. If you're a Shaco who just engaged with his Q on the enemy Olaf, you should die.

It's not like every situation should offer counterplay. Many times the counterplay is to avoid that situation from happening in the first place and playing to your strenghts, not trying to cover your weakness.

Very Hard EngageOct 25, 20161 votes

it was the 1000ad build

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CL6HsCASew

i wholly agree the build is stupid, and he dies afterwards nearly every time. but this is just dumb. when he gets that crit.... dead, no contest, through zhonyas. level 18.

PermabannedGarenOct 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

it was the 1000ad build

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CL6HsCASew

i wholly agree the build is stupid, and he dies afterwards nearly every time. but this is just dumb. when he gets that crit.... dead, no contest, through zhonyas. level 18.

So your evidence is a video of a challenger player dunking on players much worse at the game than him with a build that won't work in-game?

Did you whine about Fiora being able to theoretically do over 100% of her opponent's health in true damage with a single ult too?

Who cares about what NB3 did with this stupid meme build against morons?

Very Hard EngageOct 25, 20161 votes

my reference is a full build level 18 rengar vs another full build level 18 leblanc with zhonyas as her only defensive item.

literally presses R and left clicks on him. no extra abilities used, 100-0 a leblanc.

thats proof that assassins are going to deal well beyond +/- 2000 damage. 100-0 all squishies no questions asked.

PermabannedGarenOct 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

my reference is a full build level 18 rengar vs another full build level 18 leblanc with zhonyas as her only defensive item.

literally presses R and left clicks on him. no abilities used, 100-0 a leblanc.

Your reference is a stupid meme build that won't work against equally skilled players being used by a challenger player against much worse players than him to dunk on them so he can make a youtube video.

I mean, he had over 1,000 fucking AD an an infnity edge, and he crit. Also, where does this happen btw? I just watched him jump on Jinx at the end of the game and it took more than one auto, despite the fact that he crit, used his W, and maybe his E. He executed her with the Q.

Very Hard EngageOct 25, 20161 votes

jinx had a ga....

fizz got hit for 1630 on ult alone, just had protobelt, no zhonyas.

so sorry, ill use a Q or a W along the way... maybe ill auto? forget about E, who needs that anyway....

did i mention Q hits more than 1 target now?

PermabannedGarenOct 26, 20161 votes

{quoted}

jinx had a ga....

Also had no health. LB did.

fizz got hit for 1630 on ult alone, just had protobelt, no zhonyas.

Then he should have built more defense to survive the cheese build's insane burst and then easily kill it.

so sorry, ill use a Q or a W along the way... maybe ill auto? forget about E, who needs that anyway....

did i mention Q hits more than 1 target now?

Q also isn't an AA anymore and can't be used as the start of your combo for massive burst, oh and can't crit.

But still, who cares? So Rengar with 1,000 AD and an infinity edge deals insane damage if he crits. Whoooooa, no way lol.

MunchCrunchLunchOct 25, 20163 votes

umm maybe because you can get close to 3k hp on a mage nowdays?

Very Hard EngageOct 25, 20161 votes

targeted vs skill shot, mobile vs immobile, longer cds, mages hit 3k when they hit tons of targets. assassins can pour 3k+ into one target all at once.

im not going to have this argument for the 500th time, but as it stands now... assassins are heading in the wrong direction.

TequilaZombieOct 25, 20162 votes

Both targeted and skill shots have it's own benefits, like skill shots doing more damage and having bigger ranges.

Mobile vs Immobile is balanced through melee vs ranged, you can have a 500 unit gap closer or you can nuke people from 700 units away.

The longer CDs are usually compensated with either bigger effects (usually CC) or bigger AoEs.

But I think this was not his point, but rather pointing out that even burst mages going full AP end up sitting at 3k health late game. Having enough damage to burst down squishies, just like assassins, but also having enough health to not be burst down quite as easily.

Very Hard EngageOct 25, 20161 votes

then you realize he changed his text because i didn't quote it =/

basically he tried complaining about how op mages had it. and how gross their aoe damage is, dealing an absurd amount of damage.

Very Hard EngageOct 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

umm maybe because you can get close to 3k hp on a mage nowdays?

mages sometimes build that way for the sole purpose of sacrificing damage in favor of extra utility and not getting one shot

if you watched LCS recently faker was playing orianna and building rab cap, ludens, void, morello, sorc boots, zhonyas =/ thats a damage build, not a tanky build.

ModKnightsKemplarOct 25, 20162 votes

That is appropriate if Rengar is fed, though. The other thing that is relevant to the discussion is that we are playing a MOBA, where your prior play determines the outcome of future matches to a great extent. If Rengar gets fed, it's fine with me that he can 1-shot an underfed LB.

I'll believe they are OP when I see that happen myself. But I think Riot is smart enough to prevent that from happening if the Rengar and LB are actually even. Also, assassin's aren't supposed to be able to pull off a full combo easily. Just like the targeted vs. skillshot argument, the assassin has to set up to be able to do something like that. That's the point, and that's what they are balanced around.

TL;DR If a fed, vision controlling Rengar can one-hit a feeding, no vision LB easily, then the system is working.

PermabannedGarenOct 25, 20163 votes

{quoted}

their primary objective is to get in, finish off low hp targets, and get out.

Low HP as in squishy, or as in low relative to their own HP?

Yes to the former, no to the latter.

not 100-0 or brawl whoever they want in a 1v1 setting on the enemy team.

This doesn't happen, nor is it Riot's intention.

Try to 1v1 a Nasus, Tryndamere, Trundle, or Warwick as Talon late game.

But should they be able to duel most mages or marksmen, aka their targets? Absolutely. But even then they can't always do so. Malzahar beats just about any assassin that doesn't have a QSS one on one. Vayne beats every assassin one on one late game.

i recognize if you cant 1v1 anyone you feel powerless or not useful to the team, i get that, i really do. but you have to understand this is a team based game, and the goal is to take the enemy nexus however you deem appropriate.

And killing the enemy ADC who is putting out ridiculous damage in team fights doesn't help facilitate that? ADCs deal incredible damage to everyone on the enemy team. An assassin can generally only do it to one person.

assassins try to break the fundamentals of the game, "you cant lose because the enemy is already dead, and there was no resistance left"

Peel for your carry then friend.

so your primary targets should be the mid laner or the adc, naturally, you prey on them. just dont expect to always win 1v1 and hold permanent advantages over them. dont feel like you're supposed to be able to win all engagements.

Why shouldn't they expect that? ADCs and mages provide far more overall damage and in the case of mages utility, why shouldn't an assassin be able to kill them one on one if they aren't more fed than they are? Damage to a single target is largely all most of them provide. They should beat them.

im astounded by the amount of raw damage assassins hold, its absurd at this point. assassins should be mobile and "mechanics" not "lul ur dead"

So what, like assassin Ekko?

People played that guy tanky for a reason. Because a glass cannon assassin who can't jump in and kill an unprotected ADC quickly is garbage.

RalanrOct 25, 20162 votes

Assassins are not duelist. They need to catch people by surprise and use underhanded or unexpected tactics to win. The best assassins are the ones who don't get caught before and after the kill.

And for anyone bringing up the Assassins Creed series as an example of assassin dueling prowess, just replace all guards with minions and you'll better understand the comparison.

Malicious MetalOct 25, 20161 votes

Mace>Shiny blades

Just sayin'

Packun FlowerOct 25, 20161 votes

The problem I find with Assassins right now is that Riot is missing their mark in terms of identity and its really breaking them.

Rengar Katarina are especially bad for this. They are considered assassins but they have some of the greatest team burst damage in the game.

An assassin, as you mentioned is a "Pick a target and remove it" kind of play style. Sadly most assassins, especially those two, just burst down an entire teams and dont really need to "Pick a target" they just go in and the whole team is dead.

This is not what an Assassin should be. And sadly i find the reworks are missing mark when it comes to the issue.

AgentBlackOct 25, 20161 votes

Assassins also have a degree of utility because of their kill threat. Since assassins can one-shot carries, who are essentially the cornerstone of teamfighting in this game, the enemy has to dedicate a lot of attention and resources to deny them. Katarina and Zed may never actually reach Jinx, but you can be damn sure Jinx is spending as much time dancing around their range as she is maximizing her damage, and Jinx's tanks and supports have no choice but to monitor them as well - one botched peel can cost them their carry and the game. Meanwhile, Katarina and Zed are dancing around the teamfight, using their mobility to chunk and disrupt the enemy team in relative safety.

I see Riot's assassin rework as a way to enhance this kill threat, giving assassins the mobility, potential burst windows, and outplay potential to contribute respectable damage to teamfights while zoning or outright killing traditional carries.