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Marksmen Rework Has to Give every Marksmen a niche

KONO RUBICK DA··2 votes·547 views

Right now the classe is just badly designed. Riot do you even know how to balance this classe? Marksmen shouldn't be all about damage. We already have 18+ champions with damage, how should we choose one of them in he right situation if they do all the same job? some of them already have a niche, but if you look closely about some ranged adc: Draven, balls of stats can dish out damage equal to a nuclear bomb. Vayne, balls of stats can dish out damage equal to a nuclear bomb (well draven can do more). Jinx, same shit, twitch, kog, tristana. All of them only differe by what peel/steroid they have. and that's why we take the strongest one, vayne/tristana/jinx

How are we supposed to choose one of them if not the strongest? , why pick lucian over kalista? kalista has x10000 more utility, more cc, more mobility, nearly the same damage, better to take objectifs, better range,better early game.

Let's take a look at dota 2's ranged adc. Sniper brings the best range in the game (900 range) makes him the safest carry in the game, his headshots can not be dodged and this gives him the ability to deal with heroes with dodges/miss, but he can't deal with mobile heroes. Viper brings the best tankiness in the ranged carry role (best base armor,25% bonus magic resistance). Clinkz is the only ranged adc with an escape (30 seconds stealth). Drow Ranger has 6 seconds silence and permaslow which allows her to shut down easily caster like zeus ect...

Juggernauts who were reworked recently: Garen is the most mobile. Mordekaiser can lane 2v2. Darius can pentakill the enemy team with his passive and has the best early game. Skarner has the most cc and is better to take objectifs.

hopefully, kindred seems to have a niche since he counters wombo combo teams. I hope they continue to do like this.

8 Comments

Leeerzeichen2 votes

I think this is a dream, but i hope that they make marksmen a part of this game and stop this marksmen + 4 other players meta. The complete adc role is dominated by them and everything else is considered as trollpick and their powercurve is too extreme, especially on crit marksmen ( < 4 items = crap, outclassed by everything, > 4 item = godlike, nearly unstoppable). Thats why i think that kalista is among the best designed marksmen, because she has a smooth power curve (every item is a huge powerspike, can outplay and duel other roles midgame and stays balanced lategame) and has things that make her worth picking (passiv, ult, e) over other champions (not just other marksmen)

KONO RUBICK DA1 votes

{quoted}

I think this is a dream, but i hope that they make marksmen a part of this game and stop this marksmen + 4 other players meta. The complete adc role is dominated by them and everything else is considered as trollpick and their powercurve is too extreme, especially on crit marksmen ( < 4 items = crap, outclassed by everything, > 4 item = godlike, nearly unstoppable). Thats why i think that kalista is among the best designed marksmen, because she has a smooth power curve (every item is a huge powerspike, can outplay and duel other roles midgame and stays balanced lategame) and has things that make her worth picking (passiv, ult, e) over other champions (not just other marksmen)

yea it's a dream, in 4 years riot never responded to this. The only thing we got is repertoir telling us "please tell us what make them mandatory" and then proceded to never reply again.

Leeerzeichen1 votes

I think there is some hope if you look at the recently released marksmen kalista and kindred. Kalista is the first marksmen without crit in her standart build and i think kindreds will be critless too (i think that the as buildpath is a lot healthier than the crit buildpath in terms of powerspikes and scaling). They both have things that make them unique. Kalista has her insane kiting, he objective control and her ult, which is a really awesome skill in my opinion because i has so many uses: save you ally, engage, make funny blitz/tham plays, good synergy with some champions => crazy off meta supports like kennen or yasou. Kindred has her really passiv, ult and is a jungle marksmen. I think kindred could be a relevant pick against aoe or engage comps even if she is weak in the current meta.

Ralanr2 votes

Tristana is more specialized with demolition of towers thanks to her bombs and increasing auto attack range.

Draven has to catch axes (which isn't as easy as it looks. But practice makes habit).

Jinx can swap her damage from single target to AoE (not going to discuss her balance).

Twitch has stealth and possible true damage autos (I don't remember much about twitch).

Kalista can laugh at AoE.

You're right in that marksmen can use more diversity (hence the bloody marksmen update that's coming) but it's not as bad as you think. People play them as spam bots because spam bots with range take down towers faster and thus help with the game.

Though they can be played other ways. Most of Tristana's abilities have AP scaling. I tried it, didn't get fed enough (I'm bad with Tristana in general) to buy enough AP items to make it worthwhile.

KONO RUBICK DA1 votes

{quoted}

Tristana is more specialized with demolition of towers thanks to her bombs and increasing auto attack range.

Draven has to catch axes (which isn't as easy as it looks. But practice makes habit).

Jinx can swap her damage from single target to AoE (not going to discuss her balance).

Twitch has stealth and possible true damage autos (I don't remember much about twitch).

Kalista can laugh at AoE.

You're right in that marksmen can use more diversity (hence the bloody marksmen update that's coming) but it's not as bad as you think. People play them as spam bots because spam bots with range take down towers faster and thus help with the game.

Though they can be played other ways. Most of Tristana's abilities have AP scaling. I tried it, didn't get fed enough (I'm bad with Tristana in general) to buy enough AP items to make it worthwhile.

this doesn't add any niche at all, jinx swapping her damage to AOE only makes her stronger. Her AA also does 10% bonus damage with 200 bonus range. there isn't a "pick jinx for aoe damage", there is a "pick jinx because she can do 900 (yes in fnc vs fnatic she did once 900 damage with her Q) AOE damage every 0.8 seconds with 700 range.

draven has to catch axes? what is his niche so?just doing tons of damage twitch has a stealth again what niche does he has except pressing R gaining bonus stats right clicking and doing tons of damage?

kalista has a niche since she is better at objectifs

and "not as bad as a you think" i said in my thread that not all of them don't have a niche.

Social Justice 11 votes

Draven's niche is the axes. It's something unique to him that defines his gameplay, build path, and when to pick him. They give him high targeted damage (good for champions that would rather dodge skillshots all day), but force him to catch axes to keep up the hurt (with highly telegraphed locations of where the axes are going to land, meaning somebody like Corki can press Q for free damage). Spinning Axes means Draven can build two BF Sword items first before grabbing a Zeal

KONO RUBICK DA1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Social Justice 1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5i9sWWej,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2015-10-12T17:12:45.629+0000)

Draven's niche is the axes. It's something unique to him that defines his gameplay, build path, and when to pick him. They give him high targeted damage (good for champions that would rather dodge skillshots all day), but force him to catch axes to keep up the hurt (with highly telegraphed locations of where the axes are going to land, meaning somebody like Corki can press Q for free damage). Spinning Axes means Draven can build two BF Sword items first before grabbing a Zeal

it defines his gameplay, i'm talking about why pick draven instead of jinx

Erockandroll1 votes

{quoted}

Tristana is more specialized with demolition of towers thanks to her bombs and increasing auto attack range.

Draven has to catch axes (which isn't as easy as it looks. But practice makes habit).

Jinx can swap her damage from single target to AoE (not going to discuss her balance).

Twitch has stealth and possible true damage autos (I don't remember much about twitch).

Kalista can laugh at AoE.

You're right in that marksmen can use more diversity (hence the bloody marksmen update that's coming) but it's not as bad as you think. People play them as spam bots because spam bots with range take down towers faster and thus help with the game.

Though they can be played other ways. Most of Tristana's abilities have AP scaling. I tried it, didn't get fed enough (I'm bad with Tristana in general) to buy enough AP items to make it worthwhile.

One of the key differences with Trist, (compared to Jinx) While they both have good turret siege. Trists Bombs on the turrets, reduces their value of being a safeish place to hang out. Partially due to the fact that the bomb delay would allow Trist to move away from tower range before the damage would draw turret aggro. And that forces the enemy to be zoned away from their own tower. (This is more or less assuming Trist has the advantage.)

It's probably more accurate to consider Kalista's niche as. "I have more Objective control than you" And despite people calling BS, I find it a fair niche for an ADC to have.

And it's not just niche in play style, it's niche in the team comp.

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