Daily reminder that ARAM is still not random

Dr Poro·Jul 28, 2016·122 votes·11,136 views

The champion you get is selected from your own champion pool (owned + free week champs) rather than the entire champion pool which allows people to manipulate the system into giving them a great ARAM champ 99% of the time a.k.a. ARAM accounts.

The amount of these accounts is heavily increasing, especially if you play at higher MMR (where the queue time is over 5 minutes) https://euw.whatismymmr.com/dr%20poro

In addition, perhaps even more important, many people are dodging champion select whenever they please (whenever they get a bad champion/team comp) because there is next to no punishment for doing so. I have experienced an average of 1.7 dodges per game played since I started noting it down. This has to be stopped.

140 Comments

4th Chiming LambJul 28, 201617 votes

Non-Daily Reminder that Daily Reminders are not daily.

Dr PoroJul 28, 20164 votes

True that. But it is catchy. >:D

4th Chiming LambJul 28, 20165 votes

Unarguable point. I'll return your's with another unarguable point:

KoggyStyleJul 28, 20163 votes

Since i Cant argue with your point, i shall argue with myself.

dapositivevikingJul 28, 20163 votes

earth days or venus days

A LiberalJul 28, 201616 votes

Unless we're talking about daily reminders about dynamic queue, because those actually are daily.

XidphelJul 28, 201613 votes

One-time reminder that daily reminders are spam.

And ultimately pointless. At best, you look like an idiot and nothing gets done.

Dr PoroJul 28, 201612 votes

But adding that to your title does help getting attention. That's all I need.

Thanks for feeding me your attention. Nomnomnomnom

XidphelJul 28, 201610 votes

Report Xid for feeding.

KoggyStyleJul 28, 20162 votes

them down votes doe wth..... peeps are entitled to they opinion and they were not being toxic. :/

Synnx7Jul 28, 201611 votes

Daily reminder that riot doesnt give 2 flying fucks , unless its LC$ , skin concepts , or riot love threads

DessemJul 28, 201610 votes

It also sucks that if you get handed a champion you don't own because of free week, suddenly you're not eligible for key and chest drops. That's dumb.

Pika FoxJul 28, 20164 votes

Daily reminder that it is random. ARAM refers to everyone hitting the random button and insta-locking the selected champ, then running down mid lane. ARAM queue does this work for you.

Dr PoroJul 28, 20164 votes

I have experienced the good old days of custom ARAMs myself. However, the ARAM queue was a great improvement on what was ARAM initially. When you played with randoms, you never knew if they cheated or not. Also, teams tended to be stacked with a high ELO player in a room with silvers/bronzes. They added the MMR queue and the reroll system which I think are both improvements. There was no reroll in the initial ARAM so why would they have added it? Because it's just better. There is no full champ pool in the initial ARAM so why should they add it? Because it's better.

You don't have to stick to the limitations from the past. If there is room for improvement, you should improve it.

As for my title, it's a quote that we use nowadays to address the increasing number of ARAM-only accounts that have achieved to manipulate the system into giving them a good champion almost every time by simply not buying any champion that is not very strong in ARAM.

Critmaster GarenJul 29, 20164 votes

i repeatedly dodge aram games when i get bad champions for that mode.

because i dont see a reason why i have to play these champions against perfect aram teamcomps because i rolled them out of all champions, when people are regularly running aram accounts to only get the strongest champions in that mode.

and the amount of rerolls you get per game when you have every champion is simply not enough.

i agree. just make them all free for that mode to get rid of these accounts.

Battlecast SonaJul 29, 20162 votes

well, to be fair, you accrue rerolls faster based on your champion pool... I do wish they'd increase the number of rerolls you could store, though.

SwaidJul 29, 20164 votes

I own all but six champions (I'm working on getting all of them, my six year journey to get 'em all will be complete), I find ARAM Smurfs to be literal scum.

Dr PoroJul 29, 20162 votes

Nice, I still need 12. Been collecting for 4 years and a bit ;)

ÂFRÏCÂN GØDJul 28, 20163 votes

I feel you on this but aram accounts aren't that bad. Just like people have ranked 3s accounts, 5s, dominion accounts or accounts used to help new players or friends... it's pretty smart to buy Champs that benefit whichever map. Especially if you are buying with ip only for example. Why farm ip for weeks only to buy Rek'Sai, Rengar or some other champion who's win rate isn't that high on certain maps? Compared to tanks, strong poke champs, bursty assassins, heavy aoe champs, healers and some other op champs, some champs dont do well in a constant team fight-ing game mode. Higher mmr games are usually filled with aram accounts or just people who overtime have collected most of the champs. Plus, unless you are a religious aram player, none of these things should actually matter because you aren't taking the games seriously (which is one of riots intention for aram I think). You are asking for more restrictions and punishment to be put on a mini game mode at best. Lol That completely takes the fun out of it. Not to mention even tho it sucks, it seems there are still people who play aram knowing they have to leave and are tons of people who afk in fountain because the surrender vote didn't go thru or because they dont like the balance of comps so I can understand it from that point. I think afkers, dodgers and feeders should be punished more.

I agree, they need to up the time you have to wait when you constantly dodge games and I agree the champ selection needs to combine all the champs and I play enough aram to where I can literally guess the enemy team comp from champ select lol Sometimes when one team is balanced it's fair to assume the other team is unbalanced. When one team is majority melee, melee tanks or hard cc, sometimes the other team is mostly ranged or squishy. That could be because everyone is buying tanks and op ranged champs because they have a high win rate in aram. Idk just things I've noticed. And stop giving me the same champ I've just played the game before Lol. And bring back mirrored champs in Aram. I wanna see the same champs on both teams lol And Im tired of my team rerolling champs only to see them appear on the other team lol But there's nothing you can really do about that. I wish more people used Arams to learn champs instead of dodging or trying to trade everytime they don't get Teeto.

Dr PoroJul 28, 201611 votes

Plus, unless you are a religious aram player, none of these things should actually matter because you aren't taking the games seriously (which is one of riots intention for aram I think).

Really, I can't stress enough how much this kind of ignorant statements frustrates me. A lot of people don't see ARAM, Twisted Treeline, Dominion and the rotating modes as "fun modes that don't matter so just do whatever, lol" Even though there is no ranked mode, people like me still like to compete to win as many games as possible. Some try to cheat the system to do so, however, I have not (yet) chosen that path. If you are at a high MMR level, that means that you don't see ARAM as just a fun mode but that you are dedicated to try as hard as you can, otherwise you do not reach this MMR.

I'm a big supporter of having tournaments and even ranked queue (intermittent, like ranked 3v3s) for these modes what you call "fun modes". But before that, these issues have to be fixed to make it all possible.

Just like people have ranked 3s accounts, 5s, dominion accounts or accounts used to help new players or friends...

The difference of ARAM accounts and ranked 3s is that ARAM accounts give you an advantage over 'maxed out' accounts (accounts with all champs, runes, etc.) because about 2/3 of the champs are 'meh' on ARAM.

It Hertz When IPJul 28, 20166 votes

This. All the aforementioned examples do is maintain different ELO standings. ARAM only accounts actually exploit a game balance flaw to gain an unfair advantage.

OdinakosJul 28, 20168 votes

Gonna provide insight from the for fun side.

Even if you see ARAM as fun mode, aram only accounts are frustrating. For me the main purposes of ARAM are a) start/end the day with something silly or b) relax after a clownfiesta game. And seeing A and S tier champions as the enemy team really spoils the fun aspect.

So either way you see ARAM (fun or serious), aram smurfs are quite a problem.

Dr PoroJul 28, 20166 votes

Yes, and queue dodging is even more frustrating because you'll have to wait another couple of minutes to get into that game.

redAliceeeJul 29, 20167 votes

It is just incredibly annoying to see the same 4 or 5 champs in literally every ARAM match. I like to have fun and ARAM gives me some experience with champs that I would literally never have picked otherwise, champs that I didn't own during free rotation and found out that I actually really really like playing them, Like Zed for instance.

I love the very very rare times when you get all tanks on both sides and the fights almost never end so you end up going full AD attack speed on a champ like braum and shit gets stupid, or the awesome matches that end up being 3-4 ADCs on both sides and 1-2 tanks. Those kinds of games are amazing. The shitty part is just how often you look at your own teamcomp and see that none of the A/S tier champs are on it. At that point you realize that they're definitely going to be on the enemy team and they usually are.

Edit: I also wanted to add that while it is a game mode made for fun that doesn't mean you shouldn't try and win. The argument that "It doesn't matter, it's a fun game mode" is not an excuse for basically intentionally throwing a game. You're still intentionally ruining someones experience, just because you don't care doesn't make you any less of an asshole.

slipstreemJul 28, 20163 votes

I have well over 1,000 games on aram and have experienced the 5-10 minute queues and had friends tell me that my game was on the top 5 games list that you could spectate. It really isn't that bad now that snowballs have been introduced. You can now beat those sustain/poke heavy teams that used to dominate aram if you get enough initiation.. I can easily tell in game that if my team doesn't win by 20 minutes, we will lose, or vice versa and that makes it enjoyable as it does put the skill back into the luck based game.

aLawfulFalafelJul 28, 20163 votes

based on your match history you don't even play aram, you only play ranked...you have 275 aram wins, you barely played aram... just wanted to point that out for start cuz i bet other aramers are seeing this too

also

5 minute queues? what? WHAT? since when? you mean max 56 seconds queues right? we're talking about aram right?

i've been playing aram for years, have over 5k games, i get matched with people who have 10 wins and others who have 3k wins and queues are rarely more than a minute, there is no true MMR, were all just thrown into the same pot, picked at random and pitted against eachother (this is obvious when you see one team has a combined 10k aram wins and the other team has a combined 1100 aram wins)

the lack of penalty on dodgers is the only thing i can truly agree with as dodgers are overly annoying but also you're forgetting, these dodgers are people you really don't want on your team anyways so good riddance to them, glad they aren't on my team and ill be back in champ select in 30 seconds

as for aram only accounts, although yes aram should be truly random we all have the knowledge that its not and the ability to make our own aram accounts w/o punishment so this leaves you 2 options :

1 - man up and beat down down on those b*tches who are too scared to play any random champ and therefore arent as good of players as you are since you've learned how to play every champ

2 - make your own aram account with the champs you want only and be on equal footing with the others

but at the end of the day every true aram player knows whats up - riot doesn't care about aram and aramers, the dodgers aren't penalized ( that wont change ) and we're playing to have fun.

i'm not putting aram down when i point out it doesn't have ranked but it IS a fact that aram does NOT have ranked and it IS just a game, it is no more or less important than any other game ever it's just a game and the fact that it doesn't have ranked is in itself a beautiful thing, theres virtually no reason to spaz on one another (though as gamers we will still get frustrated from time to time and yes, we will spaz, but people spaz at linear single player games also so nothings new )

so let's just be appreciative that aram queue is in fact a thing and we don't hafta sit in customs forever to get an aram game where people can still just have aram accounts anyways

also let's agree to NOT ask riot for anything when it comes to aram, i mean, look at their last aram changes;

ghost at start + boosted income encouraging people to wait on gold or run in and give up early kills because they can get back to lane quickly anyways and have "free boots now" as the common shout for "worth" when we all know its not
removed dorans items which were useful and replaced them with trap items (please don't buy these items, guardians horn is the only one that makes any sort of sense and you should still skip it to rush your first real item quicker)

as an aramer i say just play and have fun, do your best to be part of the solution and not the problem as thats really the best you can ask for.

also go play more aram :) there are better things to complain about on the subject than aram only accounts, you'll see [slayer-jinx-catface]

(btw, although i prob seem toxic to you atm i have upvoted your thread and many of your comments and i just wanted to give my 2cents after years of playing aram to a player with so few games played. i hope you open riots eyes to see that there could be a larger aram audience by simply making aram A truly Random Allocated Matchup)

Edge of DaybreakJul 29, 20163 votes

{quoted}

based on your match history you don't even play aram, you only play ranked...you have 275 aram wins, you barely played aram... just wanted to point that out for start cuz i bet other aramers are seeing this too

also

5 minute queues? what? WHAT? since when? you mean max 56 seconds queues right? we're talking about aram right?

I have to agree with op. When you get to 2000 mmr in aram and up the queue times are always about 5 minutes. During off hours its anywhere from 7-10. For lower mmr's its fast as hell but that's because the pool of players is huge in comparison.

http://oi66.tinypic.com/2egd62r.jpg

This was my queue and it wasnt even popped yet. Ended up being a 6 minute wait and this is the good hours. This wait stacks up and when you gotta wait this long for heavily imbalanced games due to aram only accounts...Okay This next part is gonna sound like a first world problem. Our comp was varus, sona, velkoz, janna and rengar who I straight up said he could afk and we would most likely still win. I personally know that two of the guys on our team are aram only accounts so i wasnt surprised at why our comp was this. But since I own every champion it kinda sucks that the main reason i dont get to see comps with much variation is because of aram only accounts along with a limited pool of people at this mmr. If I got 2 games without seeing 4+ of the op group i consider it a miracle.

the lack of penalty on dodgers is the only thing i can truly agree with as dodgers are overly annoying but also you're forgetting, these dodgers are people you really don't want on your team anyways so good riddance to them, glad they aren't on my team and ill be back in champ select in 30 seconds

The problem is that for the higher mmr's you get dodges mainly because of aram only being a thing. if your team isnt stacked with overpowered champion or really if you have none of them at all you instantly know the other team is stacked and no one wants to deal with that so people dodge. I have had 9 dodges in a row as my max since aram came out. It's a huge problem imo and if people couldnt game the system it would most likely lesson this as people wouldnt go oh we didnt get 1 or 2 of the 20 well we know what we are gonna be facing so dodge incoming.

as for aram only accounts, although yes aram should be truly random we all have the knowledge that its not and the ability to make our own aram accounts w/o punishment so this leaves you 2 options :

1 - man up and beat down down on those b*tches who are too scared to play any random champ and therefore arent as good of players as you are since you've learned how to play every champ

or

2 - make your own aram account with the champs you want only and be on equal footing with the others

Or option 3. We keep talking about it and hope riot changes it. Silence isn't going to accomplish anything. Complaining might. I'll take a small chance over a 0% chance.

Harvey RabbitJul 29, 20161 votes

Nice post. How do you find out what your ARAM mmr is? I'm pretty skeptical that there is really an ARAM specific MMR, since team match-ups often seem to be vastly uneven.

As for the queue times, isn't what you posted just the normal state, i.e. game estimated 0:58 or whatever in your screen grab, that is bang average for me; of course then it usually takes longer because people don't accept to get into the game, etc, so then it often goes out to several minutes?

Edge of DaybreakJul 29, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Nice post. How do you find out what your ARAM mmr is? I'm pretty skeptical that there is really an ARAM specific MMR, since team match-ups often seem to be vastly uneven.

As for the queue times, isn't what you posted just the normal state, i.e. game estimated 0:58 or whatever in your screen grab, that is bang average for me; of course then it usually takes longer because people don't accept to get into the game, etc, so then it often goes out to several minutes?

I just used that site that Dr. Poro linked. While accuracy could be off due to riots anti information campaign that queue time is my average for pretty much any aram queue. Their estimated time is okay imo because they do an average based on everyone but imo if a specific player always waits X amount of time it should be based on their average specifically.

AvienalJul 28, 20163 votes

I swear whenever i play ARAM this is how i usually felt with people playing the typical 'exploit a system' game in alot of games, shame there's plenty of players in LoL that i wouldnt put it past them to make multiple accounts just for the pure sake of 'fkery around ARAMs' and this was before i checked boards on seeing how many threads involve the ARAM abuse.

Well just like i said with previous games on plain obvious solutions to give a middle finger to the exploiters and make the rage less possible. For LoL's ARAM i would say it just needs todo this:

-"""Make ARAM a all selection roll pick instead of available/owned champion pool instead."""

Obvious reasons being 1. It stops the exploiting of only loading your account with overpowered and ARAM curb stomping champions, seriously whenever i get a enemy team with Heimdinger or similar champs who can zone abuse the crap out of ARAM's setup, i can say with certainity that its a 90% chance on team will get zoned to death while the other 4 team members on the enemy team could stay bunkered in the turrets, ready to CC or pull anyone that approaches so the turrets get free shots off alongside any other allies that have poke power, dive power and etc. power. The 10% other is either the heimdinger is a bad player and/or the enemy team has a bad selection of champions, which is rare due to the 'ARAM account stocking of over powered champions' that tend to occur with atleast 2 or more people in every team in ARAM it feels like. 2. It of course heavily promotes people to 'LEARN' to be versatile then playing the one champ or one role niches only, especially since they have to learn to counter build against enemy champs which should less likely be teams stacked with ARAM meta abuse champs that can middle finger any counters against them. I mean, League has around 131 champions last i checked, better to make ARAM a 'actual' random mode so people learn to play other champs then the current flavor of the season champions.

Obviously might bump up the dodging by people, they could probably just create a measure to up it further by not only putting 5 min per or so dodge delays, but also put them in a low priority que much 'sooner' with only a warning when ya dodged to prompt ya to keep them away from the people who are dedicated to bunker down and play what champion was dealt to them or they traded team mates for, then play dodge'a'saurus till the crybabies get what they are 'satisified with'.

Hell i'd even go as far they might as well disable masteries and runes in the mode to further lock it into a system of random so players are forced to rely more on what they build and how they play, then the useful gimmicks of grasp of undying giving tanks a huge hp steal every few seconds, thunderlords allowing cheese pokes mixed in with easy poke chain hit champions or the typical deathfire touch on a skyrocket AD or AP stacking champ like Veigar, Cassiopeia or Jhin (and lil old Sat'eemo) to nuke you with a big chunk of damage, and walk away as you bleed to death due to poison effect, liandri burn, duskblade mixing in with that huge burn to end your life before you can get near someone to toss you a Heal or a heal node item.

Ultimately, make Aram feel like a proper game of Russian Roullette on the champion picks then make it possible for people to use Available only rosters or Runes/Masteries to get themselves out of fair ground for both teams who could do little to nothing to manipulate what they get for the match.

Harvey RabbitJul 29, 20161 votes

I think this would actually DECREASE dodging, because I think most of the dodging is from the ARAM special accounts when they end up with a champion they don't like (such as free champion). If ARAM was truly random, from all champs, there wouldn't be much reason to dodge, since the next roll you aren't much likely to get one of your chosen champs either. But if you have special ARAM account, you will probably get one of your chosen champs in the next round if you dodge.

Dr PoroJul 29, 20162 votes

Also, if teams don't become as stacked as currently, people won't mind if they have a bad champ or bad comp because you can always hope that your opponent will have worse.

I7A6X2v2Jul 29, 20163 votes

What about the hextech system? We must own the champ to earn chest and keys frags.

Dunkrius2gJul 29, 20163 votes

Riot don't care and the only thing thats making me play this game right now is ARAM. Sad Reality unfortunately...

disregardableJul 28, 20162 votes

Yup, and it is set up that way because nobody wants to have regular games with 5 of the same type of character (5 supports, 5 bruisers, 5 mages, etc).

Dr PoroJul 28, 20165 votes

The likelihood of that happening with the entire pool isn't greater than currently. If anything at all, it is now more likely to have 5 mages or 5 marksmen because those classes are on average just stronger in ARAM. There will still be a reroll option, and with all champs unlocked, you will be able to reroll more often. Riot could also simplify the reroll system as everyone gets the same pool of champions.

disregardableJul 28, 20161 votes

I disagree, it would definitively go up. Most players only play 2 roles, so they're more likely to have more champions from those roles and less likely to have characters in other roles. Which means, in a typical ARAM group, you may have 2 mid/top mains, 2 ADC mains, and a jungle main, leading to a more statistically likely balanced teamcomp.

And that balanced teamcomp probability improves the less champions you have, because you are more likely to get a character from the weekly rotation (which highlights characters from every class).

It Hertz When IPJul 28, 20163 votes

To your first point, the whole point of the mode is to make weird team comps work and to get you to play with champs you've never/rarely played before, or to take champs you DO know and play them very differently. For example, referencing your list, it matters jack-all that my team has a jungle main, because the Howling Abyss has no jungle. If a meta WAS ever established for that map, it'd be markedly different from Summoner's Rift. Mostly just simpler.

To your second point... what. Maybe if ARAM only drew from the weekly rotation, that would make sense, but by drawing from the weeklies AND your champ pool, it will be heavily skewed if your personal pool isn't equally balanced.

disregardableJul 28, 20161 votes

if your personal pool isn't equally balanced.

Yes, that's the point. The game is able to make balanced team comps BECAUSE your personal pool is limited, and players have different kinds of champion pools.

Playing with champions you dislike enough to not buy isn't a valuable feature.

It Hertz When IPJul 28, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Yes, that's the point. The game is able to make balanced team comps BECAUSE your personal pool is limited, and players have different kinds of champion pools.

So your balancing plan hinges on each team happening to be composed of a diverse batch of players that ONLY unlock champions for their favorite two roles?

Dr PoroJul 28, 20165 votes

The entire champion pool is rather balanced. The champion pool of an average ARAM account is heavily skewed towards ranged champions.

I feel like you don't understand the issue at hand. Most players have a big champion pool containing champions of all roles. However, people who want to thrive in ARAM create a new account with only the top 20-30 champions so they will get an amazing champion almost all the time. Also, in ARAM you don't need like 1 tank, 1 adc, 1 mage, 1 support and 1 bruiser. The best comp looks like 2 mages, 2 adcs (jayce counting as an adc) and 1 tank. If you pick 5 random champions from the free week rotation, you will usually have a pretty bad team because 2/3 of the champions are just plain bad in this mode.

disregardableJul 28, 20161 votes

Oh I completely understand that you're concerned about that. It's just that I doubt even 1% of ARAM players do that, so it's insignificant towards changing the gamemode.

redAliceeeJul 29, 20162 votes

If you play ARAM as much as I do you pretty much see the same 4-5 champs in every match and it gets really really fucking tiring.

redniwediSJul 28, 20162 votes

No matter how valid the idea, or how worthy the topic, click bait is still click bait and takes away from what you're trying to say.

Do you want people to notice what you say, or do you want them to understand and consider it? Choose wisely.

Dr PoroJul 28, 20163 votes

It doesn't matter if they understand it if they don't notice it. Why do you think that politicians act like monkeys at times?

XolotylJul 28, 20162 votes

It randomly chooses a champion from what is available to you, that is still random...

MonkeyMadnessJul 29, 20162 votes

OP is saying the people make accounts where they only buy champs like lux, morg, sona, and other high range poke types that function really well in aram. Here is my counter: these people are NOT playing the game the way it was intended, they will soon tire of it and leave. Deal with it til then, and stop asking riot to support a game mode that is a cluster fuck BY DESIGN.

Malicious FuryJul 29, 20162 votes

Another reason why it's not random: You can't have duplicate champs.

DevlinCrowJul 29, 20162 votes

Please god stop suggesting giving everyone the entire champ pool, I play exclusively ARAM and it's difficult enough getting keys/chests.

It's fine atm, you will get stompy enemy teams regardless of the champ pool because it's ARAM. Stop blaming the losses on these ARAM only accounts, the champs they choose aren't invincible

Dr PoroJul 29, 20162 votes

Yes, at your MMR there are people that can still lose even when they get a sona and an alistar in their team. However, once you reach top 2%, things will go different. You're lucky enough to not have witnessed the true horrors of ARAM accounts as you'll rarely see any of them on your MMR. I'm not trying to boast here but the difference in MMR is the best way to explain why you and I have a different experience in ARAM.

https://euw.whatismymmr.com/DevlinCrow

https://euw.whatismymmr.com/dr%20poro