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I have a serious question about the meta. Its flawed.

ItsCalledALance··1 votes·512 views

anyone who's been playing this game for more than 20 minutes understands the stale meta.

Going by LCS type play standards, not your "voyboy did this so imma try it!" stanards.

  • You got your bruiser/tank top, usually on a island, with TP and boring as heck.

  • You got your jungle, usually a supporty type champ, helps make plays, assists with objective control, and applies pressure.

  • You got your Mid lane. Usually the AP mage, who can roam to apply pressure, or push to apply pressure. This is the games focal point (usually). If mid tower falls, you lose a LOT of global pressure.

  • And finally you got your Bot lane. The AD carry, ranged, for them tower poks, and the Support, the guy who baby sits the adc.

So my question is,

Why on earth do you want a support bot lane? why not mid? wouldn't it be more practical to the game's objectives to put the pressure mid? this would allow for more map control, better pressure, more even distribution of the team weight, objective control, etc.

i dont get it...who was the crybaby adc who demanded that another player, sit there, do virtually nothing but, but plop a few wards, and make sure this guy is safe, for a little dragon control? (which arguably due to the recent changes, has very little impact on the game now, except for a few side buffs equivalent to a couple mastery points...until 5th then its broken.)

If bot lane tower falls, you gain/lose dragon control, or at least make it harder to keep it. Why not let the two adcs just duke it out bot lane, and put the support mid? makes much more sense to me.

Thoughts? how did this meta come to be?

8 Comments

Big Lincoln1 votes

ADC needs gold more than they need levels

two mid, assuming that it's not an ADC-support duo mid and instead APC-support, will hinder the mage more than anything because their level 6 powerspike will come later and thus set them back from being able to roam as efficiently

ItsCalledALance1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5ZslXdrz,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-02-01T21:32:40.030+0000)

ADC needs gold more than they need levels

two mid, assuming that it's not an ADC-support duo mid and instead APC-support, will hinder the mage more than anything because their level 6 powerspike will come later and thus set them back from being able to roam as efficiently

this is a non-issue. You would make up for the slowness to roam with a support free to do so, and reach top lane.

Also the experience difference is not much. Maybe 1-2 waves.

WarlockLaw1 votes

That 1-2 waves is a considerable delay at higher level play. That means the enemy ahri has a full minute where she can out roam your zed

ItsCalledALance1 votes

{quoted}

That 1-2 waves is a considerable delay at higher level play. That means the enemy ahri has a full minute where she can out roam your zed

No Ahri can't out roam a zed. He far surpasses her ability to cover terrain.

if both mids have supports, It is a zero sum gain.

And if only 1 had a support, if that enemy who hit 6, 30 seconds/1 minute early left lane to roam, they give up their tower, and lose far more than 1 kill would net them.

WarlockLaw1 votes

I was comparing lvl 6 ahri roam to lvl 5 zed roam, in which case ahri performs better for the ~ extra minute it takes for zed to hit 6.

Also if one team has a mid support while the other has theirs bot the adc without a support will likely be behind considerable gold, same thing with the mid laner. The problem comes from the impact a mage has while playing from behind in gold vs an adc. Adcs have low utility meaning they only have damage, so if they're behind they can't do much. Conversely almost every mage has at least a slow, but more typically some form of hard cc and sometimes more utility beyond that. Oriana without gold can still help a cc wombo hit an enemy team, mf however is just going to add some negligible damage.

ItsCalledALance1 votes

{quoted}

I was comparing lvl 6 ahri roam to lvl 5 zed roam, in which case ahri performs better for the ~ extra minute it takes for zed to hit 6.

Also if one team has a mid support while the other has theirs bot the adc without a support will likely be behind considerable gold, same thing with the mid laner. The problem comes from the impact a mage has while playing from behind in gold vs an adc. Adcs have low utility meaning they only have damage, so if they're behind they can't do much. Conversely almost every mage has at least a slow, but more typically some form of hard cc and sometimes more utility beyond that. Oriana without gold can still help a cc wombo hit an enemy team, mf however is just going to add some negligible damage.

Point taken. Well said.

I see this as a problem with how riot have created the ranged AD Champs. Seems they have designed them (post season 2) to be balanced only when accompanied by a support. I dont like this one bit.

Chumpzi11a1 votes

Dragon used to be worth global gold. 500-ish for the team. So it was important to duo mid or bot to have dedicated pressure on that objective. Mid, being the shorter lane, is safer for a lone champion. Adc is naturally late scaling. So they got a support to carry them to the late game. Dig up old games and you'll find blitz-heimer mid, and it's brutal. But, a decent wave clearing mage can protect the tower solo and from a pretty safe distance, where a solo bot gets denied cs. Why has it stayed this way? It's what people expect, have experience with, and plan for. FWIW, I agree with you that many potentially better early game strategies exist. Try the recruitment forum and ask for experimenters.

Sightless661 votes

The biggest reason why you don't send 2 people mid is because the shortness of the lane makes it much, much easier to 1v2. If I'm playing a mage or any kind of ranged champion mid, I can stay nice and safe near my tower and get most of the farm and exp, and the lane just isn't long enough for you to deny me. You also can't safely just shove the mid tower down, because there are so many avenues from which you could be ganked. However, a 2v1 bot lane can very, very easily zone the solo laner completely off of farm or push down his tower while warding all potential routes from which they could be ganked. You can easily be forced completely out of the exp range, and 1-2 waves of that can put you so far behind that you can't compete for the farm anymore.

Pro players actually did try this for a few weeks back in season 4. They stopped because sending two people mid was just too easy to exploit and punish. As soon as people learned how to play against it, it pretty much always lead the team with 2 people mid to be behind after the laning phase.

In general, if you really want the map pressure from a roaming support, you're better off sending them bot at level 1 to prevent the laner from being completely zoned off of farm, and then having them roam around after picking up their core skills. The actual cost in terms of roaming potential from starting this way is minimal, and it mitigates a huge amount of risk.

None of this means that you can't send the support mid. It can still be a good strategy, particularly since many people won't know how to respond to it. All it means is that sending the support mid is a more situational strategy than sending them bot, and you should strongly consider your reason for attempting it and for why it wouldn't work as well bot.

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