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Where's the love Riot?

Nalisai··1 votes·273 views

moved from Concepts Boards

I know most people come on here and say 'I'm a support main and .... (insert whiny rant)' and get met with a lot of derision from everyone who is NOT a support main. Understandable. If this is you, ignore and move on.

That said, I'm a support main, bronze 2, m6 Morgana, m6 Soraka, m6 Sona (top three) among others. So now you know where I'm coming from. This is definitely not a challenger level opinion piece.

Where's the love for the support role? Yeah, I can collect coins now if I want to take the one support item that is useless until stage 3 except as a mana sustain, but let's face it: The last several 'support' pushes have been utter garbage. Let's look:

Ivern: Awesome in the jungle, undoubtedly. Has a support-ish kit. Sucks at being a SUPPORT.

Rakan: Very new and can be tuned, but all in all, very underwhelming. Major nerfs when he isn't supporting Xayah, and even then, is a wannabe tank/assassin who can't tank and can't assassinate. Passive is useless. Heal is still insignificant. Does little to no damage unless you move away from the tank build he needs to build AP, and then his ult is next to useless.

Support Quests: Do I really need to discuss this? Coin: Fun mini game with a bit of mana sustain. Spellthief: May grant a move speed buff. Relic shield: Gives you Rakan's passive. (Didn't we discuss that earlier?)

Why can't Riot just make a decent support champ or better support items to match the champs that see play? I'm a DM/GM for several tabletop RPG's, and I make up new items at a rate of about 10 per day. Given only about 2 or 3 are any good, and I don't have to do any coding to get them into the game other than writing stats on a piece of paper, but I know enough about my game to pre-balance my items rather than nerfing/buffing after the fact.

[/rant]

Suggestions:

  • Support champs NEED sustain. PERIOD. Whether it's mana or health, something that keeps them in lane and not pinging 'Mana 5%' or 'Health 15%' followed by 'sorry brb' 'X signals to be careful.' would be good. Before you ask, I DO buy potions and do very well at proccing all of the relevant support items. BUT: Ancient Coin requires your ADC to be on their game, or you need to wait for your lane minions to off the wave and hope a coin drops; Spellthief requires you to harass the enemy team, and provides nothing in exchange except gold, which the other two items give ambiently; Relic Shield requires you to be melee and last hit things for a minimal return heal.

  • For the most part, support items do a decent job of keeping supports in a decent gold range - if they can stay in lane, with a decent ADC. Probably not a major issue in higher elos, granted. Gold/Silver/Bronze they flat out suck compared to a first back where you can grab a tear or catalyst (etc.). Not to mention if you don't grab a ward item ASAP you're obviously trolling as support, so your first/second hard earned 800 gold tends to go into a sightstone, which has no AP, no armor, no CD, just 150 health and 3 wards. Maybe add a benefit to Sightstone so it's really worth it to be purchased by a support? Maybe 5% CD or even 5% move speed? Enhanced resource regen would be nice (mana/energy not health obv.), but doubtful because then EVERYONE would buy it and start warding....waitaminute................... [zombie-brand-facepalm] [zombie-brand-mindblown] I'm sure I could come up with more, and I'm sure others can too. Which is why I'm REALLY CURIOUS as to WHY Riot can't seem to get this stuff???

Why not a passive on a support champ that automatically let's them split gold with a linked champion, similar to the way kalista's passive or knight's vow/zeke's active works?

5 Comments

ME UNGA ME SMASH1 votes

True supports aren't supposed to: Do damage Assassinate Live long Have indefinite Your concept of the support role seems very clouded by deeply ingrained ideas on what you're supposed to do as a support. Supports are there to support. Period. You're either a vanguard, a poke mage, or a shielder/healer. Your job isn't to last forever in lane, have the most gold/damage/objective etc. Support seems like an underwhelming role, because it IS an underwhelming role. Your job is to ensure your carries can carry you. Quit with all this talk about needing to do damage. As the support character in the game, you are there to provide peel, cc, shields, and heals. That's it. That's all the support role has ever been. This is neglecting to discuss supports like Brand, Annie, etc, but the concept is the same. I think you need to reevaluate what being a support means before you suggest why it needs to be changed.

Nalisai1 votes

Seems to me things like this are exactly WHY you see support Brand, Annie, Malz, Vel'koz, etc.

I think the part about support that sucks the most is realizing that once your team is behind, there is next to nothing you can do about it unless you have a champ like, again, Brand, Annie, etc.

GankedByWindows1 votes

Supports have got a lot of love recently. You got a ton of great new items in Redemption, new locket, Knights vow. The 3 starter support items just got a boost.

Ivern: Awesome in the jungle, undoubtedly. Has a support-ish kit. Sucks at being a SUPPORT.

So? He is a supportive jungler. There is nothing wrong with that.

Rakan: Very new and can be tuned, but all in all, very underwhelming. Major nerfs when he isn't supporting Xayah, and even then, is a wannabe tank/assassin who can't tank and can't assassinate. Passive is useless. Heal is still insignificant. Does little to no damage unless you move away from the tank build he needs to build AP, and then his ult is next to useless.

Its more like a bonus when supporting Xayah, but I can see that perspective. He definitely is NOT a wannabe assassin. Nothing about him says assassination. He wants to go in and disrupt like a tank. Tanks are not assassins. His heal is small because its AOE and it gives him a clear weakness earlygame considering how strong his lategame is. His ultimate is also incredibly powerful, so I think you're just using it wrong. A big speed boost and the chance to get the entire team in a charm is pretty great. You can usually get 2-3 people with it reliably.

Why can't Riot just make a decent support champ or better support items to match the champs that see play? I'm a DM/GM for several tabletop RPG's, and I make up new items at a rate of about 10 per day. Given only about 2 or 3 are any good, and I don't have to do any coding to get them into the game other than writing stats on a piece of paper, but I know enough about my game to pre-balance my items rather than nerfing/buffing after the fact.

They just made Rakan. Making up items in an isolated enviroment like tabletop RPG's is a VASTLY different scale than introducing them to League. If you make a OP item in an RPG, you can just remove it immediately or tell everyone not to use it. Additionally, your game isn't used probably isn't used by millions of people, including people who literally play for a living that will find the slightest imbalance and exploit it.

  • Support champs NEED sustain. PERIOD. Whether it's mana or health, something that keeps them in lane and not pinging 'Mana 5%' or 'Health 15%' followed by 'sorry brb' 'X signals to be careful.

If they lack of it is made up for somewhere else, I'm fine with them not having it. It gives them a weak early game in exchange for having a strong late game. There are plenty of supports that have sustain if that is your style. You can also adjust your runes/masteries if you feel you lack in a particular area.

I'm sure I could come up with more, and I'm sure others can too. Which is why I'm REALLY CURIOUS as to WHY Riot can't seem to get this stuff???

Scope. The scope for this game is absolutely huge, in addition to the challenges that implementation itself adds. Items themselves also aren't in a vacuum. Designers/balance team needs to take into account every single possible combination of that item with any other items, with runes/masteries, with specific champions, build paths. Its a lot to think about.

Take the LB nerfs for example. They outright stated that they tried to butcher her by taking half her W damage off. The nerfs were really harsh. Then, because this game is so big, Gunblade LB came out as an unseen consequence because they didn't check everything and still was the top of the line champion. Its harder than you think.

Why not a passive on a support champ that automatically let's them split gold with a linked champion, similar to the way kalista's passive or knight's vow/zeke's active works?

Because that

  1. Makes for a VERY passive playstyle with no risk because the optimal playstyle there is to stay out of harms way and still reap rewards.
  2. Allows for no opportunities for interaction/punishing mistakes. Imagine soraka with this item. She never would be within even a screen of you. How do you fight against that or try to exploit her weakness of all ins?
Nalisai1 votes

No, the passive idea was for the SUPPORT to be able to last hit without taking gold from the ADC. Would result in a potentially faster lane clear, or the support would be clearing the lane while the carry poked the enemy (isn't that how it should be anyhow? realistically? Since when do you see battlefield medics harrassing the enemy machine gun nests while the snipers pick off foot soldiers?)

As for Rakan, I'm using assassin as a catch-all for the high mobility champs that seem to be cluttering up mid-lane lately. He jumps in, disrupts, hopefully shield jumps out, maybe throws a heal feather somewhere in there. He's very 'diver'-ish.

As for Ivern, he was originally trumpeted by Riot as a new support champ, which was the only reason I mentioned him.

New items - there have been countless threads about how horrific Redemption has been for supports. Very few people build Knight's Vow any more, fewer build Zeke's, and if you don't build redemption right after your ward item then you're trolling. And then you build Locket, then you build.......oh, and by the way, how often do YOU get to a 6th item where you can actually get to choose it? The whole concept of itemization is for supports to NOT be locked into buying X items, but to have a choice somewhere around 3rd item at the least. (Yes, this problem is somewhat echoed in other lanes due to meta builds, but that's slightly different than what supports have to put up with when they go 'off meta'.)

GankedByWindows1 votes

{quoted}

No, the passive idea was for the SUPPORT to be able to last hit without taking gold from the ADC. Would result in a potentially faster lane clear, or the support would be clearing the lane while the carry poked the enemy (isn't that how it should be anyhow? realistically? Since when do you see battlefield medics harrassing the enemy machine gun nests while the snipers pick off foot soldiers?)

This is an interesting idea. It would definitely need a good amount of testing because you're changing something fundamental to the game. However, it does open the door to something like Caitlyn being even more oppressive early game since she now doesn't have to worry about CS.

As for Rakan, I'm using assassin as a catch-all for the high mobility champs that seem to be cluttering up mid-lane lately. He jumps in, disrupts, hopefully shield jumps out, maybe throws a heal feather somewhere in there. He's very 'diver'-ish.

That is just misusing it. You can't call him an assassin, tank, and now diver without people getting confused.

New items - there have been countless threads about how horrific Redemption has been for supports. Very few people build Knight's Vow any more, fewer build Zeke's, and if you don't build redemption right after your ward item then you're trolling. And then you build Locket, then you build.......oh, and by the way, how often do YOU get to a 6th item where you can actually get to choose it? The whole concept of itemization is for supports to NOT be locked into buying X items, but to have a choice somewhere around 3rd item at the least. (Yes, this problem is somewhat echoed in other lanes due to meta builds, but that's slightly different than what supports have to put up with when they go 'off meta'.)

I'd love for redemption to be nerfed personally. I think its super overpowered. However, it does give supports in general, especially the "true supports" (Not Brand/Annie/Vel etc) more power.

I've seen a decent bit of Knight's Vow on toplaners and tank supports like Rakan or Alistar.

Additionally, I'm okay with supports having a main core build then diversify as they wish like other roles. You could make the same arguement for most ADCs that they 'have' to go IE/Zeal item first 2. Redemption currently holds a stranglehold on the first item, but after that I've seen good diversity. For example, a lot of Karmas go Redemption into Ardent Censor instead of locket.

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