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Why is CDR even a thing?

Nebuul··2 votes·779 views

I'm just curious why CDR even exists anymore. Most champions at this point can accidentally cap it just with standard items. Why not just ditch the stat completely and build lowered cooldowns into skill levels? Think how much easier it would be to balance everything if you removed CDR from items and runes -- that's right, not much easier, because right now it is an artificial stat that is basically going to be capped on most builds. And guess what - for champions that don't cap CDR, it's not important for them, either.

I just think if Riot did a skill pass where they build CDR into leveling up skills, it would make everything much more clear, and items could be made more focused and interesting because every third thing wouldn't have 10-20% CDR attached to it.

8 Comments

ProfDrDeath3 votes

The simple answer:

Because CdR is another way to translate gold into power.

Imagine a League where every skill was treated as having 0/10/20/30/40% CdR at ranks 1-5, respectively.

Now, imagine Ziggs . Whose Q now has a guaranteed 2.4 second cooldown at level 9, independent of how good his last-hitting is. This Ziggs now only needs to buy Mana and AP.

Same goes for every single champion in the game.

PhDs Nuts1 votes

{quoted}

The simple answer:

Because CdR is another way to translate gold into power.

Imagine a League where every skill was treated as having 0/10/20/30/40% CdR at ranks 1-5, respectively.

Now, imagine Ziggs . Whose Q now has a guaranteed 2.4 second cooldown at level 9, independent of how good his last-hitting is. This Ziggs now only needs to buy Mana and AP.

Same goes for every single champion in the game.

It wouldn't have to be 10% per rank. Each champion could be balanced individually around their cooldowns instead of trying to balance all of them at once around CDR. Abilities that should be spammable like Ziggs/Syndra Q can start with already low cooldowns, and either have small/no cooldown reduction per rank.

MuffledGarbage2 votes

I think the same problem applies though.

If I play any champ with built in CDR all I have to build are 2-3 core stats on a champ that give that champ maximum effectiveness

we've see midlaners buying item 3165 for a very long time. Even if you took off the 20% CDR most midlaners would still rush it thanks to it's overwhelmingly powerful stats.

Now if I have an Ahri who has built in CDR on any of her abilities then I can just upgrade the ability that gives CDR.

EDIT: I accidentally hit post.

After I upgrade the ability that gives CDR it's almost garunteed that I'll outtrade my enemy laner if I builtitem 3802 first or if I finish item 3165 first.

And if you didn't want to be a part of that chain of events you'll be screwed up your butt and all the way to Korea

PhDs Nuts1 votes

{quoted}

I think the same problem applies though.

But then balance could be done for mana cost, base damage, and scaling for the champion by itself instead of changing the item, which would also affect every other champion that builds it.

Removing variables makes balance easier, not harder. Just look at what keystones have done to balance difficulty.

MuffledGarbage2 votes

That still doesn't solve the problem I proposed however.

I proposed that assuming CDR is no longer a stat on items and only through abilities will be granted that if you ever tried to do ANYTHING that wasn't building specific items in a specific way

that it would result in you losing the game.

You said it yourself that changing the item affects every other champion that builds it...

So if you change the core item of almost every mage in the gameitem 3165

you change a giant portion of the game to not exist.

You also change the core item of almost every bruiser item 3071

and change the core item of a few adc's item 3508

Removing variables makes balance EASIER... at what cost however?

Keystones have made the game more interesting, Sure there are times where riot failed at balancing keystones not to mention riot also recognized a good portion of problems and fixed them for the time being(respectively at the times of keystones being overpowered)

I don't want to play a game where I have to endlessly poke someone for years in the midlane with Ahri VS Ziggs

I don't want to take forever to fight someone in the toplane in a Illaoi VS Kled

I just realized something...

You would make marksman insanely prominent in the game.

Basic attacking has no cooldown...

as a result there will be little opportunity for mages to exist because marksman do more DPS on NO COOLDOWN

Tanks will suffer as a result and won't ever be played thanks to marksman that counter tanks Ashe and Vayne

There wouldn't even be space for a jungler because having twice the marksman means having TWICE the anti-everything. Not to mention if one marksman+sup fails in the botlane then the toplane marksman+sup will get attention from the midlane marksman.

Do you see the problem here?

I do.

You're next best argument would be to say "well then if we make those changes we'll just reduce the attack speed of marksman items"

and you're right.

You know what would happen after that?

People would stop playing marksman and marksman would be replaced by tanks

Marksman counter tanks due to their nature of kiting and large amounts of continuous damage.

If you take away the one major role that can deal with tanks...

You've created a tank meta. Congratulations.

I don't know if you realize the consequences of nerfing things

If we buffed weaker champs, items, etc. we could easily come up with a "everyone is viable" type of meta.

If you need further explanation of why taking CDR away is bad then reply to this post with "yes"

if you want to debate further on the OP then reply with "no" and your argument

PhDs Nuts1 votes

{quoted}

That still doesn't solve the problem I proposed however.

lol, you just slippery-sloped yourself into a downward spiral of self-debate.

MuffledGarbage1 votes

It is evident via your responses that you've put no effort into reading anything past the first paragraph.

I'll attribute that to a short attention span for time's sake.

I haven't debated against myself in the slightest. I've done what's known to anyone who debates as a "counterclaim and refutation"

In the situation of "counterclaim" I propose a point of which would be extremely valid on your part of the argument

In the following situation of "refutation" I talk about how if you claimed what I proposed you would claim that you would be in the wrong.

P.S. If you are trolling you are doing a bad job. I can respect someone who at least knows how to do something and tries to respect others...

You haven't done anything besides make CLAIMS

I've backed my CLAIMS up with reasoning and deduction as well as knowledge of previous seasons' balancing.

EDIT: I forgot an apostrophe at "seasons" so it read "seasons balancing"

o0O Madoka O0o1 votes

I do not feel like I'm capping CDR in a lot of the champions I'm playing. For glass cannon mages I stay at mostly 20% with the item 3165 .

With some classes they have easier access to CDR, but definitely not all of them.

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