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WW rework is great so far but...

ApexInTheCircle··38 votes·6,308 views

There are a few things that feel...Not right about him. First of all while he's fun to play he's super clunky and feels sluggish in his kit's ability to flow well together.

Q - Too hard to tell what the range will be on the small leap, and even while holding down the Q I've not followed through someone's entire escape (I.E stopped halfway through cait's net) So that's not working as intended. So this needs a better indicator or pressing Q should allow us to see it's range so the skill in of itself is more transparent.

W - Great skill love it's global presence and the fear factor is brings to enemy junglers.

E - I like it I like it especially helps when you're diving into a team of high burst damage champs.

R - Hit detection seems...off? I've model clipped through enemy champions that I know 100% for sure I hit. And don't get me wrong, I've whiffed a shit ton of these.

Things that could be toned down are his movespeed when he's chasing a target or following a blood trail.

Things that could be improved is his flat movespeed, even with swiftness boots and deadmans you're only getting around 410 movespeed. And I get that its to offset his movespeed when he's on a blood trail but it makes getting around the map extremely frustrating especially when lee is running around at the speed of a blind monk.

Overall I like the rework but, it needs it's issues ironed out. That being said, I look forward to playing more of him.

40 Comments

Tormentula9 votes

The Q feels weird sometimes... while the holding and going through enemies feels clunky, I do notice mechanical flaws (like if you Q scuttle, it cancels WW's aggro on it and makes him stand still) but in general it does feel really unsatisifying.

E feels weird too, I wish I could just EE in a fast paced scenario instead of E...E

Another thing is he feels like he falls off the later the game goes... kinda like xin zhao and master yi, his playstyle requires him to be super ham and the later the game goes thats pretty much what you're there for, engages with ult.

Squey1 votes

wait wait, did u say "falls off the later the game goes" and then said like xin and yi? seriously? Those are both late game champs, Esp xin. Now ww does indeed fall off, but his ganks are pretty effective and often so its fine.

Tormentula2 votes

{quoted}

wait wait, did u say "falls off the later the game goes" and then said like xin and yi? seriously? Those are both late game champs, Esp xin. Now ww does indeed fall off, but his ganks are pretty effective and often so its fine.

They fall off because their usefulness becomes less effective the later the game goes. Xin and yi are great for getting fed and pentakilling, but not in higher elo where they get blown up in teamfights.

Sure their scaling and damage is insane, but their job is much harder and its not uncommon to see a 20 kill xin or yi completely throw a game off one teamfight because they got focused, they offer absolutely nothing late game if they can't engage, get a good ally engage, or get focused, unlike say a fiora who dances around teamfights or heals her team with ultimate and maybe cancels an ability or two with parry.

This is my point with WW, he's good for picks, 1v1s, and ganks (like xin) but when laning phase ends and everybody is grouped up its hard to actually find the ADC or mage to ult them without the entire team blowing you up or body blocking the carries for him, especially if you're ghost ww (which imo you shouldn't be for this sole reason).

Englais2 votes

The thing is, with Yi and Xin, they can still absolutely decimate the enemy team in seconds late game, they just get bursted in a teamfight, while I feel Warwick dies just as fast, doesn't deal nearly as much damage, and now his big team fight utility can be bodyblocked.

My Waifu Vanilla7 votes

I agree with most of this. His Q range is pretty garbage to say the least and his base movement speed is horrendous. Yes, he should be much stronger during Blood Scent, but that doesn't mean he should be completely unplayable without it. Warwick's new ult is "about" the same range as the old one outside of Blood Scent which is fine.....except it is a skillshot still and makes your ganks incredibly.....bad if they are above half health since you can't really Flash+R to make up for short range and W Activation is quite awkward to say the least.

Buffing his base movement speed and perhaps toning down the 25%-50% health blood scent speed is definitely one thing I would do to make him feel....better before a potential movement speed item (he is slower than Veigar ffs) and perhaps making Q also scale with Movement Speed because right now it is basically a melee ability no matter how you look at it since it's range is so ungodly small (it honestly feels like Illaoi W).

Borkahn5 votes

You get an upvote just because lee is running around at the speed of a blind monk

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Danjeng1 votes

Leesin's should be a unit of measure for movement speed. "Ghost grants 1.25 Leesins worth of movement speed for 10 seconds." "Gain 10 attack damage for every 0.3 Leesins of movement speed you have"

Karn Bishop3 votes

His auto animations also cause him to cancel constantly when he stops to swing and they use basic boots to walk out of auto range during animation which cancels the auto, why is this a thing?

Thistlemin3 votes

I have a ton of games played on old WW. He's always been slow, but the new toned down walk speed gimps him too hard early on. He can't get away from a Rengar, Lee Sin, Vi and they all have many more tricks up their sleeves and damage abilities than Wicks new kit has pre-6.

His ultimate is also now the most gimpy of any jungler. Heca's massive ranged ult hits everything in a massive AOE and fears multiple parties and damages. Vi is a target lock with massive range and AOE knock up. Nocturn has the largest ranged single target Ultimate in the game. Lee Sin's ultimate is not a skill shot.

The new WW kit is too buggy. He also needs to be able to solo Dragon and his new kit is terrible for it.

There's too many ways to dodge his ultimate easily including just stepping aside. The hit box is clearly wrong and shouldn't have been released in this state. Give Warwick back his old Ultimate and he'd be more playable. I miss his Attack Speed buff skill that was superior for tower pushing, jungling, dragon/baron, fights.

The removal of his passive healing sustain turns him into a glassy and easily bulled jungler. He has to run away from almost everyone pre-6 now since he can't crank up his attack speed and heal until the enemy loses 50% health, and still receives no healing.

This all adds up to WW being in a bad spot with the jungle camp changes that push early high mobility gank attempts. That is not WW's strength pre-6 still as he's not as sturdy.

ApexInTheCircle2 votes

{quoted}

I have a ton of games played on old WW. He's always been slow, but the new toned down walk speed gimps him too hard early on. He can't get away from a Rengar, Lee Sin, Vi and they all have many more tricks up their sleeves and damage abilities than Wicks new kit has pre-6.

His ultimate is also now the most gimpy of any jungler. Heca's massive ranged ult hits everything in a massive AOE and fears multiple parties and damages. Vi is a target lock with massive range and AOE knock up. Nocturn has the largest ranged single target Ultimate in the game. Lee Sin's ultimate is not a skill shot.

The new WW kit is too buggy. He also needs to be able to solo Dragon and his new kit is terrible for it.

There's too many ways to dodge his ultimate easily including just stepping aside. The hit box is clearly wrong and shouldn't have been released in this state. Give Warwick back his old Ultimate and he'd be more playable. I miss his Attack Speed buff skill that was superior for tower pushing, jungling, dragon/baron, fights.

The removal of his passive healing sustain turns him into a glassy and easily bulled jungler. He has to run away from almost everyone pre-6 now since he can't crank up his attack speed and heal until the enemy loses 50% health, and still receives no healing.

This all adds up to WW being in a bad spot with the jungle camp changes that push early high mobility gank attempts. That is not WW's strength pre-6 still as he's not as sturdy.

I'm trying different builds with him right now, but nothing seems to really shine through except tanky bruiser and even then he lacks the straight up raw damage that other junglers have.

Right now I don't even know what to classify WW as, is he a diver? No he has no way except his ult to dive and even then it's subpar. Is he a fighter? God no, he has no stat boosts to win an extended trade. Is he an assassin? Not enough raw burst damage to put him near that class. So what is he? Where does he fall on the scale of other junglers? Or hell where does he fall on the scale of champions in general?

As much as I'm liking the rework, somethings have to be changed to make him even remotely viable as a jungler. And as much as it pains me to say this... I think not letting his ult be Qss'd might be good for him. Right now it's not point and click, it's a wonky skillshot that seems to only work when it really wants to and if you whiff it you're done, you're useless until it's up again. That was the point of the rework to make WW not his ult and sadly when I do land my new ult it doesn't feel rewarding at all.

Thistlemin2 votes

Agree, he feels like he's stuck in that old Aatrox spot where people can't make builds work on his kit viably so they just go pure tank and hope for the best. His new Q is busted. Just played another game as him. Warwick stops so often and for so many reasons now. He stops on Q, he stops when he fears (e), he stops when he uses the active on his (W).

Worse is his old Feral skin was my favorite and now they changed it to some silly Singed pet poison canister crap.

If you didn't know any better you could very easily think the old kit was the modern re-work as it functioned better and all the bugs were out.

Riot clearly didn't head the phrase "don't change what's not broken". Old WW clearly could've used some QoL improvements. But what his kit didn't need was to be nerfed, gimped, and bugged, and altered into a jumbled mess.

What he is now is this: a Gimpy Chaser. It would be cooler if he could hop over walls while chasing like his video.

Samxnxsuke2 votes

Nah i say fix everything else but nerf the global presence W, that thing makes him move fast even if he isnt hunting you! JEEZ!

ApexInTheCircle3 votes

{quoted}

Nah i say fix everything else but nerf the global presence W, that thing makes him move fast even if he isnt hunting you! JEEZ!

Yeah I'd like to see it like it was before where you just get a move speed buff in the area of your skill but at the same time I want them to buff his movespeed to be fairly fast. Actually, WW, Hecarim and Rammus should be the fastest champs in the game by default.

Ok sure but why2 votes

I say they need to find a way to make Bruiser Warwick less devastating

ApexInTheCircle1 votes

[{quoted}](name=JZ Jora,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5OUi1Eu9,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-01-27T06:55:17.308+0000)

I say they need to find a way to make Bruiser Warwick less devastating

I can agree as long as they lower his base numbers and buff his scaling because AD WW is fun as hell.

Ok sure but why2 votes

AP WW is even better lmao

Serika Zero2 votes

My issue with WW is his Q. It bugs me that sometimes my WW stops when I'm trying to execute Q, like a minion just died while I both was pathing that way and tried to Q towards the target. Then I stop randomly instead of continuing my path. Even tho I only got 2 bot games with WW, this is the only issue that I've noticed.

I also don't get what's that constant big (radius wise) red circle around him that doesn't dissapear or change size, ever

I Am Ravi1 votes

That's his ult radius, which grows with move speed i think.

Serika Zero1 votes

i was thinking the same, but regardless how much movement speed i had, the circle stayed the same, and I did really long ult jumps too (outside the circle radius). That's why I don't get it :(

I Am Ravi1 votes

Ah ok, then i'm as baffled as you are xD

Serika Zero1 votes

maybe its the minimum ult size, but still very anti intuitive :( tho, if they fix the Q bug about canceling your movement if target dies while you try to stop. Then the new WW would be a very decent champion

Noblewind2 votes

First of all I love the new character, kit, and playing against one so far feels fair, like you can always do something about him, even when WW is ahead.

The abilities are also fine to me (even if the hold Q is unique it's not so bad, although a better range indicator would be good), but I also found him super clunky.

He just feels so...slow? at doing everything until you have some items. I found it was just a combination of his low base movespeed, auto attack animation, and chasing feared monsters around to farm. I guess it's also my expectation that he'd be basic yes, but a more fast paced champ to play.

A FLUFFY BUNNY 12 votes

Q for sure is not working right. A lot of champs get away because I can't lock on even wine holding Q and sometimes I feel I'm In range but it doesent trigger.

R is also off I feel I nail a lot of champs with it bit still miss them. Hit box is way too small. Needs to be looked at. Even the pros playing on the Riot reveal broadcast kept missing his R and I'm far from a pro.

Love the bloodtrail though. Followed a running Yasuo through my JG and into a bush, where he hid, for the kill. Felt great to find him hiding.

MagikarpIsBoss2 votes

Ive been playing a ton of the new warwick and I feel the same way. His Q range needs a buff and needs to be more clear. His base ms is so bad that I feel that I need to build mobis every game so I can even walk around without a blood scent. R seems fine to me, but I do occasionally miss for reasons that dont really make sense. However, this should be hard to hit because it provides so much for you and your team while also having retarded range with mobis, ghost, and blood scent (which is what ive been going). He needs to have some power adjustments, since just buffing these would make him really op.

Blåbæret1 votes

{quoted} snip

Always someone that has to cry and whine. Never happy with anything.

Karn Bishop6 votes

The R complaint is realistic, if my models touching yours where i land with R i expect to lock onto you even if half an inch off like lee sin resonating strike, vi Q, blitz pull, thresh hook, ect ect ect. his R is the only ability that has no flexibility as to its hit box and it should have that flexibility.

Q does also have issues where it will only cast if your left clicking and glitches out 60% of the time and does not cast while right clicking.

His autos also feel bad, he has to stop to auto but because the auto animation takes so long they walk out of auto range which then forces WW to automatically cancel the auto, rinse and repeat until they either kite you to death with their lower movespeed or your Q and E come off of CD fast enough for you to live.

Sinlaire3 votes

As i Vi main i can even attest that the hit box on his ult is even narrower than Vi Q.

His Ult hit box sucks ass to say the least.

I've played WW 3 times and on 3 occasions i've tried to ult a carry in front of me and had WW turn a full 180 and ult the guy attacking me from behind.

LIke why in the hell would i want the hit box to start from the back of my character model? Am i expected to be so bad at skillshots that it will give me a free hit from melee range even if i throw it in the directly opposite direction?

His hit box on R needs to be wider and starting from the front of his model. not the center or rear.

ApexInTheCircle1 votes

{quoted}

As i Vi main i can even attest that the hit box on his ult is even narrower than Vi Q.

His Ult hit box sucks ass to say the least.

I've played WW 3 times and on 3 occasions i've tried to ult a carry in front of me and had WW turn a full 180 and ult the guy attacking me from behind.

LIke while in the hell would i want the hit box to start from the back of my character model? Am i expected to be so bad at skillshots that it will give me a free hit from melee range even if i throw it in the directly opposite direction?

His hit box on R needs to be wider and starting from the front of his model. not the center or rear.

OH lord I had taht happen to me earlier, I tried to jump dragon wall to get away while a leesin was on my ass and even though he was behind me it ulted him..

ApexInTheCircle1 votes

{quoted}

Always someone that has to cry and whine. Never happy with anything.

God forbid anyone gives any feedback on something.

AkumaCode1 votes

[deleted]

ApexInTheCircle3 votes

{quoted}

The most movement speed an adc can get is 390 i think. So that movement speed change might not happen. If anything, it might get nerfed

But If I'm building swiftness boots and deadmans just to move around at the speed an adc does with zerks and a phantom dancer that's a problem. Especially for a melee champion who's ult is their only gap closer.

AkumaCode1 votes

Right, i didn't see deadman's mb.

BakedLotion1 votes

His Q numbers are fucking insane. Does way too much damage

Admiralhaddi2 votes

Really? I thought Rengar and Khazix's Q has lower cooldown and does way more damage than ww. Oh i'm sorry maybe when they hit their Q on ADCs, their screen turns black and white.

BakedLotion1 votes

{quoted}

Really? I thought Rengar and Khazix's Q has lower cooldown and does way more damage than ww. Oh i'm sorry maybe when they hit their Q on ADCs, their screen turns black and white.

Thanks for the useless statement that has nothing to do with warwick

Completely different champions.

ApexInTheCircle1 votes

{quoted}

His Q numbers are fucking insane. Does way too much damage

You obviously didn't play old ww where his Q had a 1:1 ration on ap and did 16% of your max hp as opposed to his current one which has some ad scaling and only does 10%

BakedLotion1 votes

{quoted}

You obviously didn't play old ww where his Q had a 1:1 ration on ap and did 16% of your max hp as opposed to his current one which has some ad scaling and only does 10%

His except ww didnt build ap and still doesnt.

And that 16% had no base damage. Didnt have gapcloser or that bite mechanic.

Now it has a base damage and max hp and a gapcloser. So its much stronger. A ww q prerework would maybe do 80 damage lvl 1. Now, it does more than 100 reliably

Chizzah1 votes

I think it's the range of his Q that is making it feel so hit and miss. If they make it Darius Q range and adjust base/ratio accordingly it would work a bit better.

I'm most likely wrong though.

Tormentula1 votes

What I feel WW needs is:

-Auto reset on his Q (so you can Auto, Q and then auto again, never dropping aggro) -Increased Q range -Nerfed healing on monsters (its a strong ability it just doesn't work right, if it did work right i think it'd be op.) -Extra distance when he gets behind the target (more often than not, I don't get behind them, i get next to them since by the time it cast, they already walked ahead of me, making it silly as a gap closer.) -Make the hitbox of his ult start off small, then increase the farther he goes (this way, you can still ult point blank targets, but somebody standing right next to you won't take it if you're aiming somewhere else.) -Make WW continue walking to the target location after he Ws, the pause is fine, but don't interrupt his path finding with it.

Thistlemin1 votes

-The loss of Attack Speed ally buffing his actually the biggest detractor to his new kit. Warwick's main "win condition" was solo dragon early to get team ahead and later after your team won a team fight, to buff your survivors in tower pushing mid lane victories down enemy throat in a rush.

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