"let's move Morde in the bot lane"

KONO RUBICK DA·Aug 5, 2015·50 votes·2,062 views

"lol ok, but we will nerf his poke, move speed, and waveclear first"-Certainlyt

31 Comments

Señor KarthusAug 5, 20156 votes

{quoted}

"lol ok, but we will nerf his poke, move speed, and waveclear first"-Certainlyt

And his base HP and all armor items that could help him face adcs.

kJsAug 5, 20153 votes

standing ovation

BisaknospAug 6, 20152 votes

why cant we just remove this cancer? Kalista Yasuo

Doctor DymentAug 6, 20152 votes

This is how I feel that some of these changes go through as:

Rito #1: Hey, so what if we also add Mordekaiser to this group of juggernauts we are changing?

rest of the room speaks in agreement

Rito #2: What if we also give him the ability to have the Dragon as a controllable pet?

room picks up in agreement

Rito #1: Now, we need to nerf him just a bit in order to keep these new changes to him in line of course.

room continues to agree

Rito #3: What if we also try to send him a bit to bot lane too? To break up the stale meta bit you know?

room begins to agree loudly

SLAM

Certainlyt: Yes yes, all good ideas. Now, what if we lowered his movement speed so everyone else but Nautilus laughs at him, make it so his poke is little to non-existent, and make his wave clear sub-par at best?

silence

Certainlyt: Alright, I'll ship the changes tomorrow. It is official.

VoidgolemAug 5, 20151 votes

riot is always too conservative with their reworks.

Shoot Them DeadAug 5, 20151 votes

While buffing his shield and giving him a dragon.

Anybody can play this game.

KONO RUBICK DAAug 5, 201510 votes

[{quoted}](name=Triggered Lucian,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5NFdyKjE,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-08-05T16:59:21.305+0000)

While buffing his shield and giving him a dragon.

Anybody can play this game.

buffing his shield won't help him to go bot we don't have any information yet on the duration of the dragon

Shoot Them DeadAug 5, 20152 votes

{quoted}

buffing his shield won't help him to go bot we don't have any information yet on the duration of the dragon

Same as regular ghosts, which they buffed even more.

45/60/75 seconds.

MatezoideAug 5, 201514 votes

[{quoted}](name=Triggered Lucian,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5NFdyKjE,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2015-08-05T17:07:16.035+0000)

Same as regular ghosts, which they buffed even more.

45/60/75 seconds.

Good thing they literally halved the ghost's bonus AD and severely lowered the Ult's damage and range.

Shoot Them DeadAug 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Good thing they literally halved the ghost's bonus AD and severely lowered the Ult's damage and range.

Uh you might wanna link that change since they didn't do it.

MatezoideAug 5, 20157 votes

[{quoted}](name=Triggered Lucian,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5NFdyKjE,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-05T17:16:21.743+0000)

Uh you might wanna link that change since they didn't do it.

http://www.surrenderat20.net/2015/08/84-pbe-update.html

Passive - Dragon Force: Damaging the Dragon will Curse it for 10 Seconds.

Active: Curse target Champion and steal **20/25/30** (+.04)% of their maximum health (half initially, half over 10 seconds; deals magic damage). 

Curse Effect: When killed by Mordekaiser's team, the Cursed unit's soul will follow Mordekaiser for 45/60/75 seconds. 

Mordekaiser gains 30% of their ability power and 25% of their bonus health. 

The ghost gains **10/25/50 attack damage **and 15% of Mordekaiser's maximum health.  

The ghost can be controlled by hitting the alt key and using the right mouse button ot by reactivating this ability.

Range nerf proof (0:35)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=34&v=TWeb8maetDg

For some reason it is not listed in the summary, but literally anyone that played the PBE Mordekaiser knows about these.

Who even cares that Mord can build HP to have a better shield when he lost his Resistances, shield regen on 3 of his skills and cant build items like Thornmail/Zhonya to make good use of his passive now because the shield is literally worthless until you have at least 2.5k HP?

Shoot Them DeadAug 5, 20152 votes

{quoted}

http://www.surrenderat20.net/2015/08/84-pbe-update.html

Passive - Dragon Force: Damaging the Dragon will Curse it for 10 Seconds.

Active: Curse target Champion and steal **20/25/30** (+.04)% of their maximum health (half initially, half over 10 seconds; deals magic damage). 

Curse Effect: When killed by Mordekaiser's team, the Cursed unit's soul will follow Mordekaiser for 45/60/75 seconds. 

Mordekaiser gains 30% of their ability power and 25% of their bonus health. 

The ghost gains **10/25/50 attack damage **and 15% of Mordekaiser's maximum health.  

The ghost can be controlled by hitting the alt key and using the right mouse button ot by reactivating this ability.

That's only 4% max HP they took off. That's not as bad as you make it out.

I'm imagining they nerfed the base ad because they

A: Doubled the duration at rank 2

and

B: Made the ghost tankier as well.

Range nerf is jacked doe.

MatezoideAug 5, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Triggered Lucian,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5NFdyKjE,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-05T17:43:48.686+0000)

That's only 4% max HP they took off. That's not as bad as you make it out.

I'm imagining they nerfed the base ad because they

A: Doubled the duration at rank 2

and

B: Made the ghost tankier as well.

Range nerf is jacked doe.

A - The ghost rarely lives that long, and while a longer living Ghost does have potential, the rest of the nerfs is just not worth it.

B - No, they didnt. The Ghost on Live also gets an extra 15% based on Mord's Max.

Also worth noting (Just checked) that the Ghost no longer scales with Mord's boots, so getting them wont speed up your Ghost anymore. Sure, this means if you ult someone with better boots than you, he will be faster than on Live, but when you are a melee champion with 325 Movement Speed, you are going to need at least Tier-2 Boots pretty quickly.

You also have to keep in mind that weaker Ult damage means Mord is going to get even less Shield and Healing from that skill. Add in he cant really go full AP anymore and new Mord's Ultimate is significantly weaker than ever.

The range nerf, as you said, is really lame. Getting an ADC Ghost became harder than ever, because of the damage nerfs, lower speed and a whooping 200 range reduction.

Shoot Them DeadAug 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

A - The ghost rarely lives that long, and while a longer living Ghost does have potential, the rest of the nerfs is just not worth it.

I dunno. You can take a tower with just Dragon. No other minions needed. I'm sure you could take Baron at min 20 with a Dragon to tank for you. I guess it depends for champion ghosts. If they don't get priority targeting from the turret I don't think the longer living ghost is that bad.

B - No, they didnt. The Ghost on Live also gets an extra 15% based on Mord's Max.

That's what I get for shoddy tooltips on the wiki :P

Also worth noting (Just checked) that the Ghost no longer scales with Mord's boots, so getting them wont speed up your Ghost anymore. Sure, this means if you ult someone with better boots than you, he will be faster than on Live, but when you are a melee champion with 325 Movement Speed, you are going to need at least Tier-2 Boots pretty quickly.

Seems really strange for it to scale off Mord's boots and not the targets, no?

The range nerf, as you said, is really lame. Getting an ADC Ghost became harder than ever, because of the damage nerfs, lower speed and a whooping 200 range reduction.

Probably fully intentional decision on their part, but I don't think its right. Ult should be the one thing he shouldn't have trouble doing. Kinda disgusting that Nautilus ult has a longer range now :/

ChaosThiefAug 5, 20151 votes

Well, they brought back the % AP steal, so at least ulting/killing a mid laner won't be completely worthless for morde. The % bonus health for tanks as well, so he has a reason to try and steal from people other than an ADC.

MatezoideAug 5, 20152 votes

% AP and HP steal were always on his kit.

AP steal actually used to be better since Mord gave a portion of his AP to the Ghost and then stole AP, so he basically got at least ~15% extra AP from getting an ADC ghost.

[{quoted}](name=Triggered Lucian,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5NFdyKjE,comment-id=000200000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-05T21:08:08.283+0000)

I dunno. You can take a tower with just Dragon. No other minions needed. I'm sure you could take Baron at min 20 with a Dragon to tank for you. I guess it depends for champion ghosts. If they don't get priority targeting from the turret I don't think the longer living ghost is that bad.

That's what I get for shoddy tooltips on the wiki :P

Seems really strange for it to scale off Mord's boots and not the targets, no?

Probably fully intentional decision on their part, but I don't think its right. Ult should be the one thing he shouldn't have trouble doing. Kinda disgusting that Nautilus ult has a longer range now :/

Eh, i mean, you are going to get attacked as you take the turret and Mord's wave-clear got destroyed.

Fair enough on the tooltip lol

Yeah, it is fairly strange to scale off his boots, i was just mentioning it because the more info the merrier, even though it is a fairly small change that will rarely actually hurt him.

True dat on his Ult. 650 range is just sad.

SeekêrAug 7, 20151 votes

{quoted}

buffing his shield won't help him to go bot we don't have any information yet on the duration of the dragon

yes we do, we have pbe. it changes with his ult. At 18 his ult has a 3 second down time assuming the ghost doesnt die. That means he can always have a ghost of the enemies and the dragon ghost scales off of the ult duration so it gets to be like 45 seconds

Señor KarthusAug 5, 201511 votes

[{quoted}](name=Triggered Lucian,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5NFdyKjE,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-08-05T16:59:21.305+0000)

While buffing his shield and giving him a dragon.

Anybody can play this game.

The shield generation is lower. His MS is lower. His base HP is lower. His armor will be lower thanks to the changes in the items. All noobs can see is a dragon.

t3hcollectiveAug 5, 20155 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fenrir Epsylon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5NFdyKjE,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2015-08-05T17:09:14.571+0000)

All noobs can see is a dragon.

I'm pretty sure this is all rito was betting on for this "rework"

Chaotic ReksAug 5, 20151 votes

this argument is so stupid. ok cool, he gets a dragon, but what about the times when he DOESN'T have a dragon?

JedenVojakAug 5, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Triggered Lucian,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5NFdyKjE,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-08-05T16:59:21.305+0000)

While buffing his shield and giving him a dragon.

Anybody can play this game.

Actually his shield generation is arguably worse: They lowered the % of damage that contributes to his shield, and also nerfed his damages. His max shield is now tied to his max HP which also makes no sense... why would he want HP when he has a shield for that in the first place?

Shoot Them DeadAug 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Actually his shield generation is arguably worse: They lowered the % of damage that contributes to his shield, and also nerfed his damages. His max shield is now tied to his max HP which also makes no sense... why would he want HP when he has a shield for that in the first place?

It also has a minimum amount, E fills 15% regardless of actual damage dealt, E shields more after 2.5k HP so...Rylais and you're done.

JedenVojakAug 6, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Triggered Lucian,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5NFdyKjE,comment-id=000200030000,timestamp=2015-08-05T23:59:00.788+0000)

It also has a minimum amount, E fills 15% regardless of actual damage dealt, E shields more after 2.5k HP so...Rylais and you're done.

Yes but his W recovers 0 shield since it does 0 damage, while also providing 0 armor and 0 mr, and his Q no longer bounces to other targets further lowering shield regen. Also, HP is something I generally don't want to build on Mordekaiser - I have a shield for that.

Shoot Them DeadAug 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Yes but his W recovers 0 shield since it does 0 damage, while also providing 0 armor and 0 mr, and his Q no longer bounces to other targets further lowering shield regen. Also, HP is something I generally don't want to build on Mordekaiser - I have a shield for that.

Rylai's and Liandries are common buys, which means you don't have to deviate too much to get it. Also pretty sure Q is going to give a ton more shield then live so theres that.

JedenVojakAug 6, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Triggered Lucian,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5NFdyKjE,comment-id=00020003000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-06T00:19:33.593+0000)

Rylai's and Liandries are common buys, which means you don't have to deviate too much to get it.

Rylai/Liandry's combo is not bad on Morde, it's true, but there's a difference between having it as an option and requiring it to function as a champion - Just as I've done those, I've also done Abysal/Zhonya/Deathcap goes since offense is(was) Mordekaiser's best defense. Let's not forget that he is a 4 ability champion now that his W doesn't exist anymore, where his old W would give him armor and shields.

Also pretty sure Q is going to give a ton more shield then live so theres that.

How can a move that you can't hit with and does no damage (in one hit) give you more shield than what is in live? Live Mordekaiser's Q hits so hard your targets friends feel it. New Mordekaiser has to haplessly flail around and hope his target is not retarded, since all champs in the game basically out run him by walking quickly, and every almost other champion in the game has some form of CC - even a slow ruins him and 2/3rds of the champs in the game have those.

Shoot Them DeadAug 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

How can a move that you can't hit with and does no damage (in one hit) give you more shield than what is in live? Live Mordekaiser's Q hits so hard your targets friends feel it. New Mordekaiser has to haplessly flail around and hope his target is not retarded, since all champs in the game basically out run him by walking quickly, and every almost other champion in the game has some form of CC - even a slow ruins him and 2/3rds of the champs in the game have those.

I didn't say it was easy to hit, its one of the few changes they've done I absolutely hate.

But you can't argue that a Q that only has to have 100 base damage to deal 1300 total to minions isn't going to fill up his shield completely. You might as well just say harass in lane like Ezreal/Sona is a non-factor. Go up to farm, press Q, get max shield, if they get in range to poke hit E. I don't think Mordekaiser is going to have any problem getting farm down bot.

And that's not including the fact if you have Mordekaiser bot you will have essentially 3 solo lane champions.

JedenVojakAug 6, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Triggered Lucian,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5NFdyKjE,comment-id=0002000300000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-06T00:33:55.133+0000)

But you can't argue that a Q that only has to have 100 base damage to deal 1300 total to minions isn't going to fill up his shield completely. You might as well just say harass in lane like Ezreal/Sona is a non-factor. Go up to farm, press Q, get max shield, if they get in range to poke hit E. I don't think Mordekaiser is going to have any problem getting farm down bot.

What you say is correct, but his old Q also filled his shield, blasted the minion wave and hit his opponent cowering behind the minions. Why can't I have my cake and eat it too ;_;

And that's not including the fact if you have Mordekaiser bot you will have essentially 3 solo lane champions.

Except Morde is like 3/4 of a champion now - he's slower than ever, does less AOE damage, does less damage at range, and lost his armor/mr buff.

I mean, yeah getting a dragon ghost is kind of neat, but you know what dragon ghost isn't? Enemy ADC ghost.

Shoot Them DeadAug 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

What you say is correct, but his old Q also filled his shield, blasted the minion wave and hit his opponent cowering behind the minions. Why can't I have my cake and eat it too ;_;

Except Morde is like 3/4 of a champion now - he's slower than ever, does less AOE damage, does less damage at range, and lost his armor/mr buff.

I mean, yeah getting a dragon ghost is kind of neat, but you know what dragon ghost isn't? Enemy ADC ghost.

Well the INTENTION is to force him to require an ally in order to do anything other then ya know, lane. Isn't going to work out unless he's got Thresh who can hold them down AND bring Mordekaiser to them.

I understand the logic behind all the changes, doesn't mean I like em. If Mordekaiser is a good solo laner he has no actual gameplay involved other then being a farm bot. So push him bot and require teamplay in order to accomplish things. Makes sense if you look at it like Janna mid getting pushed bot.