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Urgot PBE changes

LoL Ergo Urgot··8 votes·3,719 views

Well, Urgot has gained some situational power and has lost guaranteed power. I want to address Riot's views toward Urgot. To be candid, their views seem old and outdated (no disrespect). Your chary, fastidious approach (nerfing Urgot) echos my sentiments. You are afraid of Urgot. You view him as a toxic (he is) and overbearing; but the latter doesn't apply so much now.

We have champions like Yasuo Riven Fiora who all have outplay potential in their kits to take advantage of the crab. We have junglers with high mobility Vi Rengar Shen who can take advantage of the fog of war. We have top laners who can out sustain him Renekton Nasus Chogath . Urgot is not this overbearing monstrosity that he was in season 2. Obviously the nerfs played a huge part, but there are more champions, and kit designs that can offer counterplay. This season has mana gated him hard, and his itemization options are less as well. Anyway, perhaps I err in my assessment.

=========================Actual PBE Urgot assessment=====================================

Overall I feel this Urgot in solo Q is even weaker. For instance I got tower dived by a Vi and Olaf . They were 5, I was 6. I successfully ulted and feared the Vi, but my weaken passive and shield allowed them to kill me with both around 1/3 hp. I couldn't apply my passive to both champions at the same time while my shield offered less. Urgot should be the champion who if he overextends, he is susceptible to ganks but if you tower dive him, oh boy you should be in trouble. His ult, shield, and passive should deter this behavior. I think this is a fair trade off.

This is one of the issues. I see this as an even bigger problem for adc Urgots. There's no way they can make full use of their passive in the bot lane. There is no way I can make full use of my passive in the top lane (after being ganked). This lowers Urgot's ability to contribute in team fights as well. Being able to apply your passive to multiple enemies can make a huge difference.

There was another instance that the Olaf was chasing our Varus , I was barely able to save him getting off an E then Q. But it was really close and wouldn't be so if I had the 15% in lieu of the 5%.

Out of the 12 or so times I ulted, I only was able to pull off the fear maybe 3 times? I mean even if there were instances I could have, trying to organize a solo q team to come with me seems nigh impossible. Overall the nerf of his passive and shield make him a weaker 1v1 dueler. This is because the power you allocated to his ult does nothing in this case. So Urgot in lane is now weaker.

I couldn't really notice his new ult animation, and I am unclear of its radius. Maybe include a secondary circle so I know who and what I will be fearing. I like the idea of the fearing, and it adds something exciting to Urgot, and it was satisfying the few times I could make use of it.

If I had a choice to keep the old Urgot or the new Urgot, I'd rather have the old. The stronger shield and passive is guaranteed while the the fear is risky and unreliable.

What should be done? I recommend removing the nerfs on the passive and shield. If you don't want to do that then allow Urgot to fear the person he ults as well. The Urgot makes a decision, do I want to ult further away, or right on top of my opponent. If you don't do either of these, Urgot is a weaker duelist. Thematically I feel the fear fits. Also his passive and the number of stacks isn't very noticeable.

Oh yeah, item 3140 and Olaf are big counters now.

I will play him some more later and edit as needed.

Edit 1: It would behoove us to mention that this is a great direction to take Urgot (I don't feel I stressed that enough). Here we add more depth and decision to his ult, tie in a thematically sensical arsenal to his kit, where it can have strength in certain scenarios all without saying, "Here Urgot, more damage, more range!"

Edit 2: The one nerf that feels justified is the duration of the shield. There is no reason it needs to be up for 7 seconds especially after Urgot has 45% cdr.

Edit 3: So I just played a game where there was one instant where I snagged 2 in the fear. One being Kalista (which meant an easy EQQQ) but we were pretty ahead. The only time I could get the fear to be of any impact. There are not enough instances for me to use the fear before midish late game. Anyway, it was satisfying.

Edit 4 (final edit until future changes): Overall I don't find myself really able to use his new fear that often. My recommendation is to increase Urgot's mana scaling on his shield but keep the base as is (don't revert the nerf). Also don't add the ap ratio back. This will give Urgot a stronger shield late game which will allow him to use his fear but not allow it to be super strong early game. Keep the duration to 5 seconds as well.

I am not so sure on the passive. I feel it should be reverted but I am not so confident on that.

10 Comments

RiotMANWOLFAXEBOSS7 votes

Thanks for the long write-up. Agree with most of the stuff here, though I think the optimal play pattern on live of peppering the enemy team to apply your passive is pretty unhealthy. It's very strong, but unclear and unsatisfying. A stack mechanic solves the clarity issue and we haven't seen his power take much of a hit internally. That being said, we're still iterating.

W - Numbers are crazy throughout the game. Feel good about these, assuming we go through with the ult changes.

R - Agree that the frequency is too rare. We've noticed that enemies are scattering when they see Urgot ult begin, which is functionally what we want it to do, but it's no fun when you don't get the satisfaction of the fear bomb :) Couple ways we could solve this. Increase terrify radius, decrease channel time, add a delay on the fear going off, etc. Going to try a few different things this week...

AMYS GRAVE1 votes

If i may interject a request that he still be a good anti assassin. I think his passive if made to build up over time with his attacks means he would no longer be useful as an anti assassin because the assassin burst comes through before his damage mitigation passive would ramp up.

ExecutorDill3 votes

{quoted}

Thanks for the long write-up. Agree with most of the stuff here, though I think the optimal play pattern on live of peppering the enemy team to apply your passive is pretty unhealthy. It's very strong, but unclear and unsatisfying. A stack mechanic solves the clarity issue and we haven't seen his power take much of a hit internally. That being said, we're still iterating.

W - Numbers are crazy throughout the game. Feel good about these, assuming we go through with the ult changes.

R - Agree that the frequency is too rare. We've noticed that enemies are scattering when they see Urgot ult begin, which is functionally what we want it to do, but it's no fun when you don't get the satisfaction of the fear bomb :) Couple ways we could solve this. Increase terrify radius, decrease channel time, add a delay on the fear going off, etc. Going to try a few different things this week...

If they are 2 things I like about urgot it's his ult and the fact that his you can "lock on" poisoned targets (or whatever you call the DoT) When I first started playing lol I was wondering how come they did not have such a mechanic (swithing positions) but the true fact is they had it all along, it's just it was tied to a non popular underrated champion.

Goosetard4 votes

How does a stack mechanic make his passive clearer?

RiotMANWOLFAXEBOSS6 votes

It is clearly meant to be used on a single target.

Affinity21 votes

{quoted}

Thanks for the long write-up. Agree with most of the stuff here, though I think the optimal play pattern on live of peppering the enemy team to apply your passive is pretty unhealthy. It's very strong, but unclear and unsatisfying. A stack mechanic solves the clarity issue and we haven't seen his power take much of a hit internally. That being said, we're still iterating.

W - Numbers are crazy throughout the game. Feel good about these, assuming we go through with the ult changes.

R - Agree that the frequency is too rare. We've noticed that enemies are scattering when they see Urgot ult begin, which is functionally what we want it to do, but it's no fun when you don't get the satisfaction of the fear bomb :) Couple ways we could solve this. Increase terrify radius, decrease channel time, add a delay on the fear going off, etc. Going to try a few different things this week...

I have an easy way to fix urgot passive for clarity and keep the passive for players who want to debuff multiple enemies.

Give him flat damage reduction for the opponents next attack/spell based on urgots level. Think like fizz except the next attack that hits urgot from that champion consumes the debuff. Its healthy and balanceable. its not sustain and its a way to have mastery by timing spells with opponents hits for urgot and his opponent.

Light visual change to supplement this by making the debuff more obvious (less green and bubbly and more solid).

Do we NEED another champion with ramping effects? its a overused balancing tool that fits well into your design philosophy (which isn't perfectly aimed at fun but close)

Urgot has no solid wave clear when every other ranged champion (whos not blatantly op) that is in regular rotiation does have a way to disincetivise being engaged on. Urgot has none besides trading power in 1v1's

you are gimping his laning by forcing him to be less aggressive. Its also a nerf to his mana economy on w and his power as a support pick all for this one cool thematic update.

If you want we can email about some of this stuff I would love to have a discussion about some of the implications of theme vs balance.

Sneakyy XD1 votes

{quoted}

It's very strong, but unclear and unsatisfying. A stack mechanic solves the clarity issue

How do you figure, sports fan?

LoL Ergo Urgot1 votes

{quoted}

Thanks for the long write-up. Agree with most of the stuff here, though I think the optimal play pattern on live of peppering the enemy team to apply your passive is pretty unhealthy. It's very strong, but unclear and unsatisfying. A stack mechanic solves the clarity issue and we haven't seen his power take much of a hit internally. That being said, we're still iterating.

W - Numbers are crazy throughout the game. Feel good about these, assuming we go through with the ult changes.

R - Agree that the frequency is too rare. We've noticed that enemies are scattering when they see Urgot ult begin, which is functionally what we want it to do, but it's no fun when you don't get the satisfaction of the fear bomb :) Couple ways we could solve this. Increase terrify radius, decrease channel time, add a delay on the fear going off, etc. Going to try a few different things this week...

The things you have been saying about Urgot's passive are true. I have even come to realize that it is indeed, sneaky power in a team fight situation. Though I wouldn't call it unbalanced (not saying you did call it that). You do have to get in 425 range with almost no escapes or land a skill shot.

There's also the fact that we have broken 3 of Urgot's legs in order to diminish some of his...toxic power. Passive nerfs might be over kill though. It would make Urgot even further susceptible to ganks and tower dives.

I find Urgot being a champ that is easier to gank, but a hell to tower dive is a fair trade off. Maybe if towers were stronger? I saw some talks among your clan regarding this.

I'm not against changes to his passive. I too want counterplay, consistency, uniqueness, and clarity for hidden power. But it seems the nature of the beast, and until Urgot receives a rework it might be a challenge to fix.

**About what I said with the shield scaling. **

I furgot that you could tweak his fear range and have ways of tinkering with it. Ignore my qualms about the shield strength. There is also no reason for a range, damaged dealing champing like Urgot to have an unbreakable shield. My bad.

LoL Ergo Urgot1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Alas poor Mori,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5LpEKezp,comment-id=00010005,timestamp=2016-02-17T18:22:13.630+0000)

The things you have been saying about Urgot's passive are true. I have even come to realize that it is indeed, sneaky power in a team fight situation. Though I wouldn't call it unbalanced (not saying you did call it that). You do have to get in 425 range with almost no escapes or land a skill shot.

There's also the fact that we have broken 3 of Urgot's legs in order to diminish some of his...toxic power. Passive nerfs might be over kill though. It would make Urgot even further susceptible to ganks and tower dives.

I find Urgot being a champ that is easier to gank, but a hell to tower dive is a fair trade off. Maybe if towers were stronger? I saw some talks among your clan regarding this.

I'm not against changes to his passive. I too want counterplay, consistency, uniqueness, and clarity for hidden power. But it seems the nature of the beast, and until Urgot receives a rework it might be a challenge to fix.

**About what I said with the shield scaling. **

I furgot that you could tweak his fear range and have ways of tinkering with it. Ignore my qualms about the shield strength. There is also no reason for a range, damaged dealing champing, with such a passive like Urgot's to have an unbreakable shield. My bad.

Akenero2 votes

his passive will most likely be tweaked a bit fingers crossed

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