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The one change to Zed that could make him legitimately balanced.

Melledoneus··75 votes·4,783 views

Lower the AD ratio on his E significantly. His E is not meant to blow up entire teams, it's used to slow targets to land shurikens. Sure, it does damage to help in combos, but it's just plain stupid when a Zed who can't aim to save their lives uses the fabled W-E combo and takes off half your HP, just because you were unlucky enough to be in range.

Shift the damage from his E elsewhere. We're all tired of taking 600+ damage (give or take) from a slow.

PS: This is just an idea. Put down your pitchforks, people.

EDIT: To those people who are hinged on the numbers I'm providing, it's an rough estimate. Some days I've had Zed deal 700, others he deals 100. Regardless, instead of arguing semantics and exacts, don't forget that this isn't a place for pushing your beliefs onto others or trying to defend Zed, or attack him. Guy's got bigger things to worry about than everyone fighting over him.

A thoughtful player named iDarkWind came up with a possible change to the ability itself with a pretty cool mechanic.

SHADOW SLASH: Zed spins his blades, dealing 40 / 60 / 80 / 100 / 120 (+45% Bonus AD) physical damage to nearby enemies and reducing Living Shadow's cooldown by 2 seconds for every enemy champion hit. Enemies struck are MARKED for 4 seconds.

Zed's Q and Zed's Auto-Attacks proc the MARK, dealing 30 / 40 / 50 / 60 / 70 (+45% Bonus AD) physical damage.

Numbers here are debatable, but the idea still stands. What do you guys think?

162 Comments

Simpumba11 votes

What's this? A constructive post about zed? And not another QQ thread? +1 OP!

I do agree though, as someone who plays zed a lot last season, I only ever use his e to slow to his my Q, I never actually am reliant on the E, and never thought about how much damage it did O.o

La Barbotte8 votes

guys stop fucking complaining, go in your options and turn off shadows, easy

Melledoneus3 votes

Shh! Don't give out Riot secrets like that!

Sweetie Brella8 votes

I'd also make his passive champion-only. I don't think it's terribly fair he should have bonus last-hitting and jungle clearing power on top of what he already has, which is insanely strong and indefinite (it's not even capped as far as I can tell).

Troiann7 votes

The fuck?

Show me a video where a nonfed zed uses his E to half health you.

I've never done it.

I think they should revert the last buff they gave him and give me the 0 second revert back to shadow thing. Because that allowed for good jukes on stuff like Orianna ults but now he's kind of just stuck there.

Melledoneus15 votes

I don't need to show you a video. I actually play the game. And you can go do the math. That's not the point.

Borigrad20 votes

{quoted}

I don't need to show you a video. I actually play the game.

I DONT NEED FACTS I HAVE FEELS

E base 180 damage, 80% bonus AD ratio, he gets 25% bonus. Zed would need 390 bonus AD to do 600 damage with an E and you would also need to have literally 0 armor.

MY FEELINGS ARE WHAT WE NEED TO BALANCE THE GAME AROUND. No says the man sick of your shit, you need to play better.

Solis Deus3 votes

are you serious? 390 bonus AD on a Zed is almost nothing.

Borigrad5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Solis Deus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5JqNwdQz,comment-id=0001000000000001,timestamp=2016-02-13T23:24:45.164+0000)

are you serious? 390 bonus AD on a Zed is almost nothing.

it's 14000 gold in items, are you deluded?

Melledoneus4 votes

{quoted} E base 180 damage, 80% bonus AD ratio, he gets 25% bonus. Zed would need 390 bonus AD to do 600 damage with an E and you would also need to have literally 0 armor.

Numbers are irrelevent. We're not here to crunch numbers, we're here to humanely discuss a possible change to Zed. This is neither the time or place for this.

And yes, I know I did that myself. Talking about 700 AD and whatnot. But I'm going to stop engaging in this calculator war and talk about what's important.

VasilisGreen7 votes

700 AD? When? when bloodthirsters stacked to the sky?

Billy VoHagen1 votes

Because numbers aren't important to balance, am I right fellas?

Melledoneus2 votes

Here's a number for you: .8. That's the bonus AD scaling on Zed's E.

It's too high. Zed builds a lot of AD shouldn't have that much damage on a utility spell. It makes him oppressive after laning phase because he hardly needs to work to get that damage off. Especially since they increased the range of his shadow to be just as far as Talon's whole engagement range, Zed can basically walk up to the middle of the lane and harass somebody under their turret. Is that fair? Who am I to judge?

All I care about is whether or not a utility spell should have a .8 bonus AD scaling on it. You can do the math, but don't come arguing semantics when you find out your numbers don't align exactly to my rough estimate.

OrigamiCaladrius3 votes

Actually, a properly built late-game Zed can do 430-475 damage easy with the W>E combo.

Then if he uses his Shurikens on his now slowed target(s), he gets even more free damage off. (Then he procs Thunderlord's)

I think he's mostly complaining about how Zed has access to a practically free ranged slow that anyone (especially himself) can take advantage of and get to deal even more damage. I mean, Talon's Rake hits hard, but Zed has good range on his and tends to do significantly better in team-fights because of that relatively safe pressure.

Hoodwink6 votes

Zed Balance is for the weak.

fééd l0rd4 votes

http://de.leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Zed Zed's e base damage is at 180 with a 80% bonus ad scaling. Usually a Zed will buy item 3142 (65ad), item 3139 (75ad), item 3035 (40ad), boots, item 3147 (75ad), item 3156 (55ad). 180+248= 428 damage. Surely he won't deal 428 to everybody he hits with his WE combo and also he can't stack the e damage. He can just increase the power of the slow.

How do you get the nummber 600+?

Melledoneus5 votes

EDIT: The numbers shouldn't matter. The point is a matter of having damage on a utility spell.

0zymandias I2 votes

he is right. Zed's E is his lowest damage tool you noob

AninLegions7771 votes

Please don't mess up this calculation. Zed's passive gives him 25% not 125% and that is at max rank.

Melledoneus6 votes

So you're telling me that Zed's W cuts his bonus AD by 4?

125 just means an additional 25% is added...

AninLegions7771 votes

You aren't reading well are you? I meant it gives him 25% bonus AD. Adds not Cuts.

Melledoneus6 votes

Zed's W passive gives him 125% bonus AD.

That means it gives him 125% of his bonus AD.

You aren't reading well are you?

AninLegions7771 votes

Do you know what you are saying? If Zed has 100 bonus AD, with his passive, he gains an additional 125 AD. Tell me, does that look right? Stop confusing yourself.

Ratbert3 votes

What is 100*1.25? 125. What's 125-100? 25 There you go. Zed's bonus ad from his passive.

Did you pass grade school math? Or are you merely pretending to be like this?

AninLegions7771 votes

You are the one mate. Also I think you need to work on your English. Lemme quote you and make fun of you even if I was holding myself back: So you're telling me that Zed's W cuts his bonus AD by 4?

Oh but yes it does cos 100/4 = 25. Now that wasn't so hard was it? I've been messing with you ever since that blunder.

Ratbert2 votes

Please show where I said that quote, and not where OP said this. Protip: you can't, because OP said this, not me.

The passive doesn't say zed's bonus ad is 25%(or 1/4) of his item's ads, but he gains 25%. 100%+25% = 125%. Convert to decimal and you get 1.25, the value OP used.

I am fully convinced that you are merely pretending, with that level 18 too.

AninLegions7771 votes

Ahh mistake. That was meant for the OP. Who said anything about item's AD? I mean all bonus AD. Lool. Level 18 teaching you about the game. You should be ashamed boy.

Ratbert1 votes

Well I was going to say bonus ad is 25% of his bonus ad, but that sounded bad.

Still doesn't make your math right.

AninLegions7771 votes

My Maths is right. It's the OP's grammar that's making you think it's wrong.

AninLegions7771 votes

This is true but YOU said that it give 125 BONUS AD. That's the confusing part.

BetaDude405 votes

Please, learn math. Grab a calculator and type in 100 x 0.25, then type 100 x 1.25

Do you understand now?

AninLegions7771 votes

Follow the thread son. Also look at his use of grammar.....On second thought, don't. You won't get it anyways.

LemurKick3 votes

Some people really need to go learn some basic math. (Not you the people arguing with you) even on the wiki it's stated as BONUS AD INCREASE: 5 / 10 / 15 / 20 / 25% bonus AD

BetaDude404 votes

Mathematically, when you multiply by a percentage (in this case, an increase of 25% bonus AD), you're actually multiplying by 1.25, not 0.25. Multiplying by 0.25 would result in a 75% decrease of bonus AD. The wiki says a 25% increase, but in actuality they're taking the bonus AD value and multiplying by 1.25, or 125%.

Now, you'd be correct if he said 125% increase, in which case that would be multiplying by 2.25, or 225%.

It's a common mistake though, so I'm not trying to be rude about it.

LemurKick1 votes

It's not multiplicative though, it's additive, adding 25% bonus ad, that's the way it's worded, as if it's adding that 25%

BetaDude403 votes

Same thing as multiplying bonus AD by 1.25

It's an equivalent statement. Think of it like "Multiply by 1 and a quarter, so add a quarter"

LemurKick1 votes

I know it's the same thing, I'm just saying that the way the tool tip says it, it's as if it's additive

BetaDude401 votes

Well, the game multiplies by 1.25 to make it quicker. If it were additive, you'd first have to take your bonus AD, multiply by 0.25 (or divide by 4) and then add the quotient of that to your bonus AD value.

Or the game could just take the bonus AD and multiply by 1.25 and be done with it. I know it shaves off only 1-2 steps, but when optimizing a game, you want to cut down on any inefficient code as much as humanly possible.

From a Mathematical view, you're not wrong. You're going to get the same answer, regardless of however many steps you make (unless you start making the wrong steps...).

AHeroNamedHawke6 votes

{quoted}

Posting 4 items, one that's not even a complete one, doesn't make your argument valid.

Let's be more realistic. Let's say item 3071 item 3142 item 3147 item 3156 item 3036 are his damage items.

55+65+55+75+40= 290 bonus AD from items.

Zed's W passive gives him 125% bonus AD. So...

290*1.25= 362.5 bonus AD. Now to look at the E's damage.

362.5+180= 542.5. Not yet 600, right? Wrong.

Thunderlord's Decree. For the purpose of this argument, let's say Zed is level 16. That's realistic. So Zed's damage on thunderlord's proc (W-double E procs thunderlord's, in case you were not aware.) will be 160+108.75= 269 magic damage.

542.5+269= 811.5 damage in total from Zed using his E.

Technically, you don't factor in armor because the combination of Black Cleaver and Lord Dominik's makes it negligible. Now let's say Zed came across a group of opponents clumped together.

5(811.5)=4058 DAMAGE. Sorry, is this Zed or Katarina we're talking about here? Because last time I checked Zed was supposed to be aiming for the squishies, not be shredding down entire teams. W-E is nearly instant cast, so it's almost impossible to dodge. This isn't even factoring in shurikens or his ultimate, which are supposed to be his real sources of damage.

Uh, no that isn't how it works

A) You somehow concluded that Thunderlord's can be procced by 2 damaging abilities, when Zed's E doesn't stack damage with itself, just the slow B) The entire enemy team is somehow stacking on top of Zed's shadow close enough to all get hit by a Thunderlord's proc, which is extremely tiny C) Black Cleaver requires 6 instances of damage to fully shred, and Dominick's doesn't affect base armor, becoming significantly less effective if paired with Cleaver as it shreds their bonus armor first. The only way he's doing full damage is against an armorless ADC that's already been shredded 6 times by Cleaver D) Everyone has base MR, Zed has no magic penetration at any point E) Numbers are fun. Did you know, Syndra with item 3089 item 3135 item 3157 item 3165 item 3116 can do 717 damage to an entire team with a single Q? Shame no one stacks that tightly

Arakadia2 votes

This is full build. Enemies will have built health items and armor which you decided to ignore. His shadow will now be down and you can now jump on the Zed. Im not saying zed is balanced, UP, or OP, but just my input.

Borigrad2 votes

Or we could stop nerfing a champion that is barely played as it is cause people in low elo don't know how to AA a melee champ in lane?

BetaDude409 votes

Barely played? He's got a 16.66% playrate, that's pretty decent for someone like him.

Borigrad1 votes

{quoted}

Barely played? He's got a 16.66% playrate, that's pretty decent for someone like him.

I was referring to the pro scene.

Elewd9 votes

why the fuck would we balance around the pro scene? thats less than 1% of the actual playerbase.

AHeroNamedHawke2 votes

{quoted}

why the fuck would we balance around the pro scene? thats less than 1% of the actual playerbase.

Because the rest of the playerbase thinks you can proc Thunderlord's with a single ability

Melledoneus7 votes

Technically, you can. Karma

The Loveless3 votes

Pwned

Healz Please2 votes

Morg too.

Melledoneus1 votes

Basically anyone with a DoT.

Dominick Destine6 votes

{quoted}

Or we could stop nerfing a champion that is barely played

.... troll?

http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/zed Zed is incredibly popular and has a very high win rate to go with that popularity...

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