Has lethality gone too far?

rtbf76109271··6 votes·1,725 views
http://i.imgur.com/Z0vbiUj.jpg

I'm playing talon and abusing the exact same thing as to what I died to in the photo. With item 3147 item 3142 item 3814 and lethality quints you have 65 lethality, which means true damage against EVERYONE who did not build armor. Even melee champions who have armor scaling. Add in item 3071 item 3036 and it takes something like >175 armor to not take true damage with a couple of black cleaver stacks on you. Not to mention duskblade actually does true damage too.

These lethality changes seem to have completely went against the previous design philosophies in the assassin rework. Which was something along the lines of "burst windows should be long enough that counterplay is possible." Whether that counterplay is peel, summoner spells, stasis, ect it doesn't really matter, right now it is again possible to kill any non-tank (even a fighter building mostly damage) in 0.5 to 0.75 seconds with sufficient lethality.

For example, on Talon with the 3 lethality item powerspike I no longer need to auto attack to kill a target with my 3 stack bleed passive, my abilities and thunderlords usually just kill them outright. This is obviously not what was intended in the tlon rework, since the DOT has a lot of counterplay (heal or shield or stasis during it) where as dying to wrq from a bush does not.

As much as I love to pop people with talon this probably isnt healthy gameplay right now

14 Comments

LXII2 votes

"Building armor pen melts anyone that isn't stacking a ton of armor"

Yeah, that's kinda the point.

rtbf761092714 votes

"melts" is different from legit true damage and 0.5 second one shots. This is why they wanted armor pen weaker in the early game and gave most assassins some sort of timer for their full combo. The lethality changes went back on this design philosophy is my point. Of course armor pen is supposed to KILL squishy targets, and an assassin full combo SHOULD do that. It's just the actual amount of time it takes which has changed and became much faster, from maybe 2 seconds to 0.5 to 0.75.

RexSaur2 votes

Lethality still sucks dick in team fights or against tanks, its good for squirmish and snowballing, thats about it.

Its not overpowered, a riven with that build cannot live through any fight and will get completely fucked by exhaust.

GeoPlaysTFT1 votes

Full lethality cait can literally 1 shot squishies with her ult late game.. 2.4-7k dmg. So... I suppose they could tone it done a bit.

rtbf761092711 votes

um is 7k a typo? That would require like 1500 bonus AD

MissingKayo2 votes

2.4-2.7k. That's what they meant.

Its All Skillzz1 votes

{quoted}

Full lethality cait can literally 1 shot squishies with her ult late game.. 2.4-7k dmg. So... I suppose they could tone it done a bit.

can confirm caitlyn with 2 lethally items and half a black cleaver ace in hole as ap ezreal for 850 damage at lvl 14.

Risen291 votes

You are in no place to complain about riven killing your quickly with a glass cannon build when you are playing a squishy assassin like talon with no defensive items. At that point it's just whining that the other guy's assassin got the better of you. And, yes, certain fighters who have gone all damage can function similar to an assassin and that's functioning as intended.

You also need more than 65 lethality to do true damage to someone who hasn't built armor. The average armor at level 18 is more like 80ish.

A couple of defensive items can ruin the day of a lethality stacking player. If you don't want to sacrifice your damage for defense, then that's your fault - but that's part of the risk/reward of playing a dedicated glass cannon assassin like Talon.

Cleaver and Whisper are also percentage based - Your armor will always work. Just less of it will. It helps, but full build tanks are still going to be so difficult to kill that you'll still want to avoid having to fight them.

rtbf761092712 votes

I really don't think my post had a whiney tone, and several times I state how I'm doing the exact same thing to people as Talon. I'm not in tears over here, just trying to discuss the HEALTH of these interactions.

You also need more than 65 lethality to do true damage to someone who hasn't built armor. The average armor at level 18 is more like 80ish.

At lv18 you will not have just 65 lethality with a max damage build, you will have item 3071 or item 3035 or both which takes a large percentage off FIRST and THEN takes off 65 flat. Which means 80 armor is indeed seen as zero or very close to it depending on how many cleaver stacks

Cleaver and Whisper are also percentage based - Your armor will always work.

again, no it will not. If you take the percentage off, then the flat pen, you can take armor to zero. Pretty easily too

Risen291 votes

I was talking about your armor still working if you actually build armor. If you don't build armor you shouldn't be surprised when you die.

The cleaver and whisper are also a big gold investment in armor pen on top of the lethality you already got. If your only goal were to deal more damage to squishies then it's very gold inefficient, especially since you probably won't even get to fully stack it. You would probably be better off getting some more damage and crit if your only goal was to kill them ASAP.

No, whisper and cleaver are items you use against people who actually build armor. And against people who actually build enough armor it will nullify a lot of your flat lethality to the point where you cannot expect to rely on burst damage alone to give you victory against them.

ProfDrDeath1 votes

Yeah, in retrospect, the Lethality buffs were quite unnecessary, and I can see Riot reverting the changes eventually. Or nerf the items.

Or both.

Matake1 votes

Playing Evelynn with lethality is awesome. You get that true damage on hit + Her E can burst most champions with Thunderlords. It's so funny to watch people metling in front of your eyes.

forist1 votes

Cough no armor, cough squishy assassin.

Into The Aether1 votes

Riven's using it? Well that changes everything.

Hit the button.

Shut down everything.

Rollback the game to the last stable version.

And in a rare, double-whammy decisions, we shall also reduce Irelia's base AD by 2.

More from Gameplay

More by rtbf76109271