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Why is Yorick removed from the rotation?

Sooko··43 votes·21,736 views

I know the answer, really, but it just feels awkward. "We removed Yorick because he is getting a rework and he is unfun to play against, while having very few real counters."

Okay, okay... (BTW I have Yorick, I don't need the rotation to play him, this just... just... messes me up a little, Volibear with me please).

Buuuuut... How many unfun champions need reworks and are allowed in the rotation as well? I will give a few examples.

Shaco is in for a rework, is extremelly frustrating to deal with (I have him, he is fun, but I hate him at the same time, only fun for both sides in mirror match-ups). But not removed from the rotation.

Teemo is the face of unfun, has very little counters when he goes top lane (Yorick shouldn't count because he counters anyone that doesn't have minion specific abilities), and I think he is in for a rework too. What keeps him in the rotation?

Fiora Riot already wanted to rework her due to the low counter-play ultimate of hers, as well as how frustrating she was to deal with (Remember, bruisers in the top lane usually don't build Zhonya's, and Guardian Angel reminds the enemy not to focus you)

Now before you put this thread below Threshold with downvotes, keep just this in mind: what makes Yorick different from these 3? Not to mention the newer unfun champions that keep getting released (Yasuo/Gnar/Kalista). Thanks for reading.

[Will add some salt about Trynda needing a rework after I eat, depending on the choices of whoever chooses to comment]

EDIT: Okay, I got lazy with this, but now I feel ready. If you dislike this part, please downvote my bump rather than the thread with the main message. TY :3

So... Yes... Tryndamere... Man I hate that guy. Doesn't matter how far behind he is, I hate him. I nearly can't resist the urge to suppress him as Malzahar if he ults, just to watch him finally die powerlessly. But enough of this.

What I hate about him is well... The noises in his crit sound, the backdoors and the general playerbase of Tryndamere I have found grasps the severity of the Vayne flamer nature.

Its not even just gameplaywise, he is married to Ashe, while cooler champions are single Singeditem 3070 and doesn't even appreciate her (right arm too strong on this one). His wife is sweet and caring about the Freljord, while all he cares about is chopping people in half.

Then we have the fact that he is a glasscannon carry without reprecussions for not building any defense, but with that, very forcedly, I can still deal with, just like I can deal with the fact that his snowball potential is over the top. Now what I reaaaaaally hate about him:

Due to his snowball potential and glasscannonness, giving him a kill not only loses you lane but also it puts in jeopardy the entire game (fed Trynda is ten times worse than nearly any other fed champion). But wait! Instead of pulling off huge plays early game, what he does, is pray to get a lucky crit and an unjustified kill. So, a lane and maybe the entire game are in the hands of RNG when Tryndamere is in the game, and he either becomes worthless (if he is unlucky) or an unstoppable killing machine that will get his enemy laner reported (if he is lucky).

Putting the worst aside, there is also the fact he poops on any CC other than blinds (suppression should stop him at least, come on there aren't even that many), how relatively easy he is, his death noises, the fact blinds only belong to champions I hate, the low CD spin, the noise on his spin, the joke, the fact that building defenses against him (or nearly any other champion right now) are no longer worth more than going glass cannon as well and the slow, oh god that slow... Not to mention only Poppy and Nasus can actually 1v1 him late game, which means Tryn players always challenge other guys in the enemy team cockily for 1v1s in case of a discussion. And he never groups, TFs are 4v5, and ironically, his resource if fury/rage. Even his Champion Spotlight has plenty of downvotes, bested only by Yorick's and Gangplank's.

Anyway, since I can't think of a good conclusion for my Let it Go™, I will just post the first overused joke I can think of that comes from the internet. Why can't I hold all these Thornmails? item 3075item 3075item 3075item 3075item 3075item 3075

84 Comments

BeatzBoyFTW23 votes

He is pretty boring to use, yet strong against most melee champs

I think this is the one statement I saw somewhere of why he isn't really worth to be in the champion selection.

Junkο26 votes

Implying champs like Heimer aren't boring to play while still being frustrating to play against

BeatzBoyFTW4 votes

Ummm, throwing a ghost in a large AoE or point-&-click a health sustaining ghost onto an enemy, and automatically converts a 1v1 into a 2v1 instantly to fight a single opponent, compared to throwing a tiny AoE bomb/adjusting your rockets to hit narrow or wide/placing vulnerable guns around you while enemies won't bother to come near you, is 2 different things lol.

Junkο6 votes

Yeah you can actually fight Yorick with certain champs, Heimer is untouchable because if you destroy a turret he will summon a new one and a gank is a double kill for him.

My bad!

AbodyHUN6661 votes

they kept heimer the the same as he was before his rework but made him more viable. If you can take out his turrets it forces him to spam mana and you can get him.

Junkο2 votes

Eh i honestly found Heimer pre rework worse. He was really fucking ugly to look at for starters, and his rockets were targeted and he could easily death trap you with ulti when you decided to attack his turrets. But eh my opinion.

The only thing i hate about the rework is how popular he got.

AtheosisX11 votes

Heimer is fun for a lot of people. He certainly has a lot more variety to his play-style than just hit key-summon minion.

Auz the Ripper10 votes

Yorick does a lot of stuff! He hits things with a shovel!

TonyTonyMordecai3 votes

Yeah, I find Heim to be really fun to play as, but the key to playing against him is to get him away from his turrets or to kill his turrets first. Bursty mages who can take out his turrets from out of his turret range can take on Heimerdinger rather easily. (Syndra, Ryze, Xerath, Ziggs, etc) I just feel like they should add a range circle for his turrets, that way you know where the safe zone is at all times. And Heimerdinger is probably my most favorite mage, not to mention I have gotten very good with building glass cannon Heim, with the only armor being the Zhonya's and the Guardian Angel and then boots, if I feel like having boots. Heimerdinger is easy to get used to, but there is a ton of thought required to have a really successful lane as Heimerdinger, and then not totally blow it come mid-late game.

kijik1 votes

The reasons you cited are precisely why it has become commonplace to take heimer top.

TonyTonyMordecai1 votes

Uhhhhhh... Not really. Heimerdinger isn't really tanky enough to go top lane, nor does he have anything to save himself from ganks. Plus, since top laners get tanky after one/two items or just through items/ability passives, Heimerdinger would be at a great disadvantage directly after the early game stage.

Leti the Yeti1 votes

I have found heim to be not as vulnerable as people think I can leave my turrets just to bait the other laner into taking ult missles which holy shit that thing KOs people

TonyTonyMordecai1 votes

IKR, those ultimate missiles are so freaking strong, but it's so easy to miss, especially if the enemy sees you trying to set it up. So rewarding if you do hit the enemy with ALL of the missiles :3

Holgranth10 votes

Part of the problem is that Yorick takes almost 0 skill to win lane with but to actually be relevant late game he needs to be on a coordinated team and a very skilled player behind the helm.

Free week Yorick has the potential to frustrate the hell out of the enemy team in lane and then enrage his own as the inexperienced free week player properly becomes a concrete block that needs to be dragged uphill to victory. All in all a huge ball of toxicity.

I respect people who main him and can play him effectively past 20 mins, I still hate playing against him and NEVER want to see and inexperienced Yorick on my team.

Vesarixx3 votes

So why is Darius in the rotation?

TonyTonyMordecai2 votes

Because he has counterplay throughout the game, and in lane, and there is some thought involved with using his ult-chain on the proper targets to get the full five hits. Also Darius stays relevant past the 20 min mark, just saying.

Gunpoint7 votes

I want to see Yasuo burned at the stake. Worst addition to League of Legends ever. He's a overpowered copy and paste anime character.

TeemoHunter13376 votes

its so stupid. out of all 120+ champs. they think yorick is the most annoying uncountered champion. if u ban yorick from FW. might as well ban gnar,teemo, heimerdinger.

TonyTonyMordecai2 votes

gnar, i can understand, but there are ways to take down Gnar before and after he turns into mega-gnar, not to mention after he gets his 6. Teemo, not really, he isn't OP past a certain point in the League learning curve. His mushrooms are rather annoying if the person pays attention to his ultimate's CD, and if the person goes to town with the mushroom placement. Heimerdinger, ok, I can understand, because I went against him as Akali, and I was not able to do anything, because Akali is a single target assassin, with no range and no safe AOE burst. In that situation, I had to call for my jungler to help me out, but even then, we were screwed, because all the Heim had to do was sit behind his turrets and place a new one down everytime one died. He got efficiently farm fed, not to mention fed off of me and my jungler's attempts to kill him. So, yes, Heimerdinger/Gnar/Teemo is annoying, but everyone learns ways to shut them down past a certain point in the learning curve, but Gnar is probably the one who I think is one that needs some of his damage lowered in some spots, but not all, because he is alright at the moment. But we shall see with where Riot goes with Gnar's potential nerfs.

Father Liir5 votes

Pretty much everything that has already been said; I love playing as Yorick, I love his Lore as a Psychopomp of the Shadow Isles.

I get the feeling if Yorick was free, he would become the new Face of unfun, POSSIBLY dethroning Teemo.

Sachabot2 votes

I wish he actually fulfilled his role in-game as well, though.

Yoella3 votes

Hold up, you're aware that Teemo Shrooms got a massive nerf last season right? Like, a MASSIVE nerf. 30% less AP ratio. I know it's kind of drilled into this community to hate Teemo just because he's Teemo, but ever since that nerf he's been a pretty level champion. If he were that OP he'd be in every game.. ever. He doesn't get much playtime nowadays, that shroom nerf really hit hard.

As for how to counter Teemo, just go after him. His poison wins him trades, and so if you let him poke at you you're probably gonna lose. But if you just charge after him he can't do as much damage. He's realllyy squishy, and so any CC, even slows, are extremely dangerous for him to deal with. Also, item 3211 Spectral Cowl really diminishes his poke in lane. Aatrox is really effective against him, with his passive, knockup leap, and ranged slow, and bonus damage/heal.

However, if you let Teemo poke at you over and over while his poison whittles away you HP, he's eventually going to get ahead in lane and then he's a bit harder to stop. But anybody is at that point. Just go balls-in and kill the squishy bitch.

Sooko5 votes

Well, yes, his shrooms did get nerfed, but he still gives melees a very hard time. He is a kiting monster thanks to his W and R, who punishes you once you go after him with his E, and if you do get close to him as a melee, if you are AA reliant, you are probably going to need to survive plenty of his damage before you can actually do anything to him. I am not saying that he is OP (Yorick isn't either due to his late game, his mana problems and lack of hard mobility), but he too has a lot of favorable match ups, and has bigger chances of winning lane than, say, good ol' kiteable Volibear/Garen if he goes top.

But I do apologize if I made it sound like he was OP. :)

AtheosisX4 votes

The hate directed toward Teemo due to the fact that he is literally designed to be an annoying little pest. It's not because he's overpowered.

TonyTonyMordecai1 votes

Efficient Mushroom Scouting (EFS) is an acquired talent, I'm afraid to say. Rule #1 is to "never facecheck the brush unarmed". Not dying is the next step in this skill, to say the least. Only true pros can do this with DECADES of experience. "Never underestimate the power of the scout's code"Teemo

junglerboy162 votes

Teemo can still half life almost anyone mid game with a single shroom if he builds AP and a item 3151.

Mathbalnase3 votes

Bring your math.

junglerboy161 votes

I'm talking experience, this game isn't all about math you know. Since you insist though, I was Olaf in the jungle, I had a Hydra a hexdrinker, and Merc treads, as well as a jungle item with Warrior enchantment, and I was level 9. The Teemo was a bit ahead, and had just gotten level two on his R, he had Liandry's and about 240ish AP. I had just run out from base and it took me from 1300 hp to about 550-600. I had to back again immediately. Right after that, our Ashe walked into two shrooms and got taken from full to about 70 hp.

Celeste Benal1 votes

If he had 2 levels into his R and you were level 9, then he was at least level 11. So he was more than a little bit ahead, m8.

junglerboy161 votes

jungles are almost always about 1-2 levels behind now, even when doing well since their isn't much XP in farming jungle

Mathbalnase1 votes

So let's run that math, then. Level 2 shroom with Liandry's and 240AP 81 + 30(ap) + 48(4% current)

  • 81 + 30(ap) + 41(4% current)
  • 81 + 30(ap) + 35(4% current)
  • 17(2% current)
  • 16(2% current)
  • 16(2% current) = approx. 506 damage total, and a final health of approx. 794

Except, whoops! I didn't account for ANY magic resist, there, and still the numbers don't match up with your story. So yeah, bullshit.

junglerboy161 votes

You also made it so the shroom only lasts for 3 seconds, instead of 4 seconds. It should actually deal (from 1300 HP): 81.25 + 30(AP) + 48(4%Current) +81.25 + 30(AP) + 41(4%Current) +81.25 + 30(AP) + 35(4%Current) +81.25 + 30(AP) + 33(4%Current) +16(2%Current) +16(2%Current) +15(2%Current)

=649 damage. The Teemo had Liandry's and sorc shoes, which is 30 flat Mpen, as well as a void staff (like I said he was fed). I had 41.25 MR base, with 30 from Hexdrinker, and 25 from Merc treads, which comes up at 96.25 MR. -34 from void staff, and -30 from flat pen (not even considering his masteries) I had 32 MR. multiplying the damage out, I took roughly (100/(100+32)*649) damage, which comes out to 491 damage taken. I concede that this isn't truly "half life-ing" me, but it got pretty close, and I have a feeling that if he had any sort of penetration marks or masteries, that would have made it deal the amount that I saw.

Before you reply again, please keep in mind that this match was almost two months ago, and I could be totally wrong about the amount of AP he had (he could have easily had over 300 at that point, he solo carried his team and was 5 levels ahead of me by the time the match ended), as well as the amount of MR I had (I could be totally wrong about having hex drinker and in fact may have only gotten it after this particular shroom incident).

Mathbalnase1 votes

Well, damn, I forgot a full tick of damage. Good catch.

The conclusion remains nevertheless unchanged.

Let's review: The only way Teemo did half your health with a single shroom is if he was already ridiculously fed compared to you (as many as 5 levels and several thousand gold of purchased items ahead of you in this case). You should EXPECT the ult of a champion who is beating you that badly to chunk a large portion of your health. It should come as no surprise. It is not cause to complain about that champion.

Yoella1 votes

This is very, very untrue. Liandry's burns %current HP, not %max hp. So at 100% HP Liandy's would burn 20% of a health bar all on it's own via shroom, but because the shroom and Liandries itself are doing damage each tick, it works out that Liandry's itself is doing notably less than 20%. Keep in mind that shrooms now have a 50% AP ratio, which is pretty small as I'm sure any mage (and most fighters) could tell you.

Also note that Liandry's only deals ~20% damage at 100% HP. This means that it does considerably less to an injured opponent.

This is by no means halving somebody's health even with full AP (Which makes for a horrible Teemo now btw). Now, if you're an ADC with low health and you step onto a Teemo shroom while at full HP it will chunk you noticeably yes. But this is not 50% of your max HP.

Besides, how come ADCs get to all build an item that does 8% current HP per hit and also grants lifesteal, 40% attack speed, and an active that deals 10% MAX hp and heals them for the same (all while hitting probably around 2 times a second)item 3153 but Teemo is suddenly Satan incarnate because he can deal 20% your current HP (only at 100% health) with a shroom that you yourself need to step on, does not stack, has only a 50% ratio, has to be placed and planned in advance and can be removed with pink wards and a free trinket which everyone can buy for cheap. I don't get it.

TL;DR Your statement is a complete lie, and I just proved it.

junglerboy161 votes

Don't be so condescending. Of course I understand how % current hp works, and actually, it doesn't even calculate its damage when the spell is cast, it applies the damage every half second, and calculates 1% of the targets current health each time it applies the damage. To a 100% health target, it would deal less than 20% no matter the circumstance, unless they have negative MR.

However, doing the math for the situation, Teemo was lvl 11, so his shrooms had these stats 325 (+50% AP) over 4 seconds. Liandry's applies it's double damage burn over the whole four seconds, due to the Shroom's slow, so it is burning for 4% of current HP each second, in 2% increments over the 4 seconds, plus an additional 3 more seconds afterwards because the burn lasts for 3 seconds. That, at full health, is roughly 325 (50% AP)+20% HP (because of how the damage scales down over the course of the burn, instead of 24%). The Teemo had roughly 240 AP because he was a little ahead, and I had ~1200-1300 hp, and was completely full because I had just walked out of base. I had a hexdrinker and mercs and ravenous hydra, and it dealt nearly 600 damage on its own. Adding up the math, this is very possible, because 325+120+(~1200*0.2)=685 damage. Now, after resists get taken into account, It dealt more like 500 damage, but that is still a massive amount, even if not precisely half life-ing me.

I also wasn't saying anything about whether Teemo is satan or any of that nonsense, I was simply saying that his ultimate is still quite potent, and not totally weak because they nerfed the AP ratio on it. I 100% agree that it is less toxic than having an item for ADCs that deals % hp damage. The AP % hp item is mostly for bruisers or DoT champions, not burst mages, but ADCs with a BotRK (who didn't need help with more damage) suddenly become even more ridiculously powerful than they were before. Teemo shrooms half life-ing me I can deal with, because he is usually not even there to follow up and it is more of a tactical annoyance than anything, but an ADC abusing an item to melt a tank when they already have a butt load of other tank killing steroids and stats is just infuriating.

WillFeedForSkinz2 votes

Can I say that Yorick is quite strong Yorick does what he wants My most recent game as Yorick I went like 29/7 as I recall as the adc for my team. Plz don't tell me that that game was not fun. Enemy Zed shows up? Let my ghouls do all the work. In my opinion Yorick is one of the most underrated and fun champs in the game.

Auz the Ripper8 votes

Not gonna lie, that didn't sound too fun for the people you were fighting

junglerboy161 votes

No, the argument isn't that HE isn't fun, but rather that playing against him if he gets any sort of lead is possibly the single most miserable experience in the game, along with playing against a select few other champs. I don't doubt that he is quite fun to play as, but I never ever want to face him on the other team as he is right now.

Tannhäuser Gate1 votes

he is probably one of the few champs that can do legit 1v5 when fed

junglerboy161 votes

Him, Poppy, and a 600 stack Nasus are about it. I've seen all of those happen before (I was the Poppy Hehehe...).

WolfBV2 votes

Stuns, Roots, Snares, and Knockups can also stop tryndamere. Sometimes slows too.

Sooko3 votes

I meant stop him from casting his ultimate. He can do it under any kind of CC.

TonyTonyMordecai5 votes

HE CAN STILL ACTIVATE IT UNDER THE DISPLACEMENT CC TOO?! >_< Man, trynd is more annoying than I thought... I hate his infinite crit+damage+heavy slow+sustain+gapcloser/escape+invincibility. Shorten the invincible duration and remove the healing and heavy slow. He should not be able to do that.

Sooko2 votes

{quoted}

HE CAN STILL ACTIVATE IT UNDER THE DISPLACEMENT CC TOO?! >_< Man, trynd is more annoying than I thought... I hate his infinite crit+damage+heavy slow+sustain+gapcloser/escape+invincibility. Shorten the invincible duration and remove the healing and heavy slow. He should not be able to do that.

:C

TonyTonyMordecai2 votes

I agree. I cry rivers everytime I see an enemy Tryndamere Amumu

junglerboy161 votes

You forgot that the slow comes with 80 AD reduction, which is a nightmare for anyone other than a Mage trying to kill him.

TonyTonyMordecai2 votes

But even so, Mages are innately squishier than fighters/tanks/assassins The melee spectrum are built to be tankier than the ranged spectrum, just because the range part of things gives you the advantage of being at a distance from your opponent. And the slow is super heavy, and lasts for like 5 seconds, which at that point means certain death if you were trying to get away from Tryndamere in the first place.

insaiyanbacca1 votes

yeah i think the only cc that stops it is suppression

Hellish Prophecy2 votes

I myself love playing as Trynd because he carried me through the toughest games...so as a Trynd..."main" I say YES he is a pain in the ass to deal with. I don't like fighting Trynd, I feel bad playing as Trynd. Which is why I rarely do it anymore. I honestly think he needs an ability rework, not a TOTAL rework, but just mess with his abilites while keeping his crit nature, maybe make it to where he has to deserve a kill a bit more.

WolfBV1 votes

It feels like Darius is a pretty hard counter for Tryndamre, but I'm not sure. I do know though that once Darius is up in their for his ult, activating tryndamre's ult after that is useless.

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