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Is costless mobility a factor in a champion's "unfunness"?

Sooko·2/16/2015, 7:12:32 PM·32 votes·2,282 views

The complaints are high in number, about champions like Lee Sin and Zed. These two, for example, have an amazing level of mobility without being really punished for it, and are very usually seen as frustrating to go against. A few other champions I can think of that are unfun, of the top of my head are: Kalista Yeah, it might be bias. I play mainly melee champions, but I just hate champions with infinite mobility, especially if they can kite without ever worrying about mana because their mobility skill is free. Yasuo Speaking of infinite dashes, this guy really makes me want to punch my screen when I see him going through a wave of 6 minions, proccing his Shiv, and almost clearing it completely without any resource. This is especially true if my champion is skill-shot reliant and squishy at the same time, meaning that the more likely I am to land a skill-shot, the more likely he is to dash through me and crit in my face. Gnar Well, melee champion bias again, but this little mofo is definitely one annoying pest to deal with if your champion is MS reliant (VoliStruggle) or if he lacks multiple gapclosers to keep up with Gnar. Nidalee Nidalee's poke is already hell to deal with considering that after a tear, her sustain beats Yorick's and so does her range. But if she had no mobility, she would be only a little different from Xerath (Less CC, more utility like vision and heals), and Xerath, in my opinion, does feel like if I die to him, it was a mistake of mine, and I truly got outplayed, a healthy champion (except on ARAM, to hell with you Xerath players on ARAM). Nidalee, however, can become uncatchable whenever the people she bombards get fed up with it and try to catch her, assuming they can't throw enough CC for her to just run off without mana problems. Riven No comment. Really. An MS GP build of mine could not catch Riven, even with three stacks of my passive to slow her down, Randuins and my ult. I have beaten several Rivens during my days of playing LoL, but I can't say it was fun by any means. Akali I know Riot toned her down recently, but one does not forget an Akali once she gets a double kill from your bot lane, no matter how nerfed she is. Then of course: LeeSin A ton of mobility and damage put together in one kit, as well as CC and it lets players feel highly skilled when they play Lee. I don't really hate this champion that much, more his players. But I am sure several people here on Boards truly hate the champion himself. Zed Very smilar to Lee, but with less CC and more reliable mobility (blinks). Plus some Nidalee-ish poke without mana costs, but what I think is most frustrating about him is the fact that he gets to always leave if he isn't chain-CC'd, even if he doesn't blow up his target. (again, mobility related issue)

Some champions I forbid you from mentioning if you disagree with me: Shen If you think Shen doesn't pay for his mobility you probably play one of the champions above and are in denial. Sorry but a long CD dash that drinks up half of your energy IS costly. Kennen Kennen has two choices: either walk in to restore energy, or run away and bear with the whole energy cost of the ability, which is big enough to be reconned with by itself. IMO the most balanced energy champion, taking in account Shen is Underpowered. Garen ... ... ... ... Really?

So... yeah, what do you think? Is mobility without any drawbacks an important factor when it comes to a champion being fun to go against? Vote and comment if you disagree.

22 Comments

redniwediS2/16/2015, 7:42:40 PM8 votes

It's something to take into account, sure, but it's only a small piece of the problem. It's the combination of mobility and unavoidable damage that is the problem.

Champions like Gnar, Riven, and Akali can be dealt with in various ways, as their kits are strong but have clear weaknesses that will be there regardless of the player's playstyle. They may still be difficult to handle, but once you learn how to handle them you're good to go.

Lee Sin, Zed, and Nidalee are very playstyle dependent, and will have different weaknesses depending on how the player uses their strengths. They can still be dealt with, however you won't always know how to deal with them until you're already facing them in a fight.

Not knowing what to do can lead to a sense of frustration, particularly when the knowledge you picked up on one game does not necessarily apply to another. It takes a lot of dedication to get around, and not many people are willing to put in the time. Some don't find that particular type of challenge to be rewarding, and I think that's the heart of the issue.

Riot is attempting to find a balance not in champion strengths and weaknesses, but in people's opinions over what is fun. Some enjoy the flashy plays of high mobility champions, where as others do not, and whether or not Riot is on the right path here is really an endless debate. Having proper drawbacks for any strength is very important, and so long as Riot does not forget this I'm fine with having such high mobility champions around.

For context I'm a Garen main who actively picks Garen into Gnar as a counterpick, and I can't actually remember the last time it didn't work out.

Jasiwel2/17/2015, 1:23:12 AM3 votes

Mobility should only be free if there is a cost or condition to it. Yasuo and Riven are probably the biggest violators of this rule because they pay no resource for their mobility, not mentioning their mobility is always accessible without a gate. Riven kind of has a gate to start with, but if you compare it to everyone else's early game it's not much different. After some CDR, she dashes around like crazy. Yasuo already has negligible Cooldowns and his E's low CD makes up for being targeted. I'm not saying either is OP, but I am saying their mobility gives them a ridiculous amount of power that may keep them from ever seeing real balance or proper gameplay adjustments.

Kalista is being looked at currently, so I won't so much about her that hasn't already been said.

At least with Lee and Zed, Riot could (not saying they will, just saying they could) increase their energy costs to where their mobility became always an invest, not some regular aspect of their kit. Given their popularity and success, there is no reason for either to have such small energy costs. It makes Zed ridiculous to lane against and it makes Lee a constant threat no matter how much energy he dispenses in any scenario. If Mana champions have to face being Managated, then Energy Champions should have to face being energy-gated in their own ways. Shen and Kennen are excellent examples.

Nidalee is a pain, but not that bad. She nukes someone or dies, even if it feels like bullshit most of the time. I think Akali is okay right now after the recent patch, but again she's mostly just annoying. As far as Gnar goes, I think his problems are less about mobility (he still has to burn Flash more often, unlike Zed/Lee/Nid) and more about his midgame-lategame threat. I think Riot is close to balancing him to a point where he doesn't cloud out other top champions; they simply need to capitalize on what his weaknesses are given it's currently clear what his strengths are.

Xemeron2/16/2015, 8:56:45 PM3 votes

Of course they are, RIOT knows that, but they make the LC$ Bigplays and they are more important than having a champion to be fun to play against. RIOTs stand on that is: Just pick one of the mobility champs, Fuck all those old champs whithout free low CD dash, they dont make dem bigplays!

SmokingPuffin2/17/2015, 1:29:54 AM2 votes

Is mobility without any drawbacks an important factor when it comes to a champion being fun to go against?

Yes, of course. I don't think there are that many champions with this characteristic though. Your list names many champions that have perfectly reasonable tradeoffs for their mobility.

I think the single most important thing in making a champion anti-fun is a play pattern that lets the player fail horribly with no clear way to punish them for the mistake. Examples:

Zed R has a get out of jail free card attached. Nidalee You better dodge all those spears, because even one landed means you just lost the turret. Blitzcrank You better dodge all those hooks, because even one landed means a kill.

Azrael0052/17/2015, 2:07:51 AM2 votes

I just think its kind of funny that one of the arguments for energy champs is that they have more limited pools for longer engagements but zed and lee the 2 biggest offenders have instant regains at little-no cost for their energy. Zed better hit those shadow skills free 80 energy per shadow at max ranks if he hits both q and e which also procs on his ult. So potential 160 energy gain for lets say a two cycle so 260 cost and a potential 2 second cd for living shadow if 3 enemy champs are hit per shadow slash and it gets worse at 20% cd for instant recast if he got youmou's and black cleaver which he usually does. At which point everything is on cd. So thats a full 3 cycle rotation in about 12 seconds over which he has passively regened another 100 energy. There is no caster other than ryze that comes close to the aoe and even then even burning his ult he isnt matching the aoe and the safety to dash around. Lee sin suffers a bit from this to. Oh no those autoattacks for the energy regen after attacks so hard to proc.

Nameless Voice2/17/2015, 2:14:06 AM2 votes

I was thinking something very similar today, and I basically came up with this:

No champion should be able to dash more than once in 5 seconds at minimum. Mobility skills on their own are fine, but one of the things that needs to gate and balance them is danger to the user.

Consider Katarina Katarina as an example (and let's ignore her reset for the moment.) If she uses her Shunpo to attack an enemy, it leaves her very vulnerable until it comes back off cooldown, during which time the enemy has a window to make a move against her. She can use her dash offensively or defensively, but not both in a short time. The same applies to most other champions with dashes: Jax Aatrox Amumu Azir Corki Diana Shaco Elise Ezreal Gragas Khazix Lissandra Malphite Nautilus Maokai Nocturne Pantheon Quinn Tristana Shaco MonkeyKing

Now, let's look at some of the most problematic champions in the game, either outright OP, having caused problems in the past, or are just generally unfun to play against:

Ahri Fizz JarvanIV Kassadin Leblanc LeeSin Nidalee Kalista Vi Yasuo

Each of these has the ability to jump in to fight, and still use their mobility to escape again if the fight turns badly for them. Is it a coincidence that these are some of the most-hated, most-complained about champions in the game? Fighting them often becomes extremely frustrating, because it's really hard to punish them for their mistakes. Often they will over-extend or over-commit, but will be able to use their extra mobility to escape from trouble instead of paying for it. In Fizz's case, he even gets to be untargetable while doing so, making him even more frustrating to deal with. In Ahri's case, I actually felt that she paid for her burst mobility with a suitably long cooldown, so she was fine - but the new speed boost on her Q almost counts as a second dash, so she goes back into this list.

There are a few other champions with multiple dashes, but they are generally very specific or can only be used aggressively, or require kills to reset, which makes them much more bearable (though each of these champions have design issues of their own.) Akali Irelia Renekton Fiora Katarina Khazix

tl;dr: Champions who are able to dash more than once in a short time are extremely hard and frustrating to play against.

Auz the Ripper2/16/2015, 8:49:57 PM1 votes

This is why I play nocturne and use my ult as an execute

Escape This

FistOfSharkiesha2/17/2015, 9:20:42 PM1 votes

Eh I disagree with Garen being costly. He breaks free from CC, gains a movement boost, silence, and bonus damage all in 1 costless ability with a low cooldown.

Chaotic Reks2/17/2015, 10:42:19 PM1 votes

unless its Garen, than yes

Yandere Carry2/17/2015, 3:42:51 AM1 votes

akali sucks now

InsaneSamurai2/17/2015, 5:10:44 AM1 votes

In the case of Lee, it's almost the biggest issue. Even if your team does try to collapse on him, he's got two manaless wall jumps to get through before he even has to consider flashing. The other big problems are infinite free sustain(how is it that this is a terrible thing for the game on every champ except Lee?) and godly early game damage scaling. He's probably going to outfarm you because he is fast as hell and doesn't stop farming until he wants to, and he probably scales better on the items he buys with his already larger pile of gold than you, letting him just run around in your jungle and dominate you constantly, hopping over the wall and disappearing when someone tries to make him pay for it. It's like having an oppressive lane bully opponent in the jungle.

JZPorkins2/17/2015, 12:55:06 AM1 votes

out of that list the only ones i find un fun to play against are Kalista and Riven. the only other champ is teemo to me. Kalista I can't catch unless we happen to have Ryze Morgana Lux Sejuani and Pantheon. all of them. Riven i just don't like. I tend to play champs that are weak early game. fuck teemo.

I can deal with everything else in that list. they all have some weakness i can use. at least for bronze. Edit: never answered the Q. it's something to take in to account, but not the only thing.

Nexttoradio2/17/2015, 1:23:13 AM1 votes

Costless mobility is a cancer of this games that must be addressed.