Do tank jungles "really" need to have slow clear times?

Hexs Fortune·Apr 23, 2017·17 votes·1,061 views

Damage against champs and lane minions is one thing, but why can't tank jungles get safe, time efficient clears?

Why must their dmg on jungle based objectives like dragon be so low?

15 Comments

DunkinNoobsApr 23, 20176 votes

You sererely overstate how slow and unhealthy most tank junglers clears are. You're certainly no Lee or Kha'zix but it's not like it takes you 45 seconds more to do a full clear. At absolutely worst, it takes 15-20 seconds more to do 6 camps.

Very Hard EngageApr 24, 20173 votes

in the early game sure but come mid game (2+ items) if you dont smite every camp you're going to have a bad time.

DunkinNoobsApr 24, 20171 votes

What the hell are you talking about? Most tank junglers have pretty good clears once their first skill is maxed and you have Cinderhulk.

Very Hard EngageApr 24, 20171 votes

thats still early game.

mid game is 18minutes+

KilanostApr 24, 20173 votes

2nd and 3rd clears can be shitty, but I think thats consistent with all junglers right now save a few.

I mean even udyr ends up taking a good chunk of damage unless he's spamming abilities in which case he goes oom in 2 camps without blue buff. Thats why 2nd clear time is my favorite time to invade.

AnagsApr 24, 20172 votes

People need to realize it isn't just speed but also how healthy you can clear that fast.

Are you low on health or oom after that?

RexxieeApr 24, 20173 votes

Because then why would you pick anything but tanks?

Their only weakness in the jungle is the early game, they scale the best, they are the safest, and they are the more useful with less gold.

6SfoolApr 24, 20173 votes

I think tank jungles should have decent clears on regular camps, but I still think they should need help to quickly take down epic monsters. Otherwise tank jungles would become the absolute meta because then you'd have 4 champs capable of soloing drag in under 15 sec.

RalanrApr 24, 20172 votes

I agree. Tanks shouldn't be soloing dragon or anything that crazy. You don't pick a tank to solo the dragon.

chipndip1Apr 24, 20173 votes

Probs cause tank junglers don't fall off as hard?

Big LincolnApr 23, 20172 votes

tanks are the best scaling junglers besides the 2 or 3 hyper carries that populate the role

Sun Wu RyuumokuApr 24, 20171 votes

yeah, they don't suffer as other jungler when behind in xp.

GrimspeakeApr 23, 20171 votes

Because if u give a tank lots of damage which will usually be aoe then it defeats the entire purpose of playing anything except tanks

Teridax68Apr 24, 20171 votes

I think the idea behind it, besides tanks generally meant to have lower damage, is that their CC and durability make them extremely good at ganking early on, so their clears need to be slow so that they can't just pull a Season 3 Nautilus/Rammus and gank non-stop, with a pretty high chance of securing a kill each time. Granted, when you factor in damage-focused junglers with both fast clears and consistently lethal ganks, like Lee Sin or Shaco, it's a little harder to draw that line as cleanly, but there are also other metrics at play, such as early/mid/late contributions (tanks tend to be much more useful in the mid game than most fighters, due to how their CC makes them teamfighting powerhouses), that also end up somewhat justifying that.

However, I do think you make a point in that damage is more or less essential to have any impact on the game. It's one of the reasons why supports generally can't jungle, because there are absolutely no hooks for their utility to assist them in any way. Similarly, tank junglers often struggle far more than they should, and sometimes even need to equip damage runes and masteries just for their first clear, simply because their durability isn't really valued in the jungle (slow clears also tend to be pretty unhealthy, so they generally don't make up for it with healthier clears). Looking at how Riot tried to make individual camps more specialized, I think there's far more potential out there to make tanks feel more valued: for example, instead of having Gromp enrage at the start of combat (which doesn't actually help tanks out that much), having him deal massive flat damage per attack, but also consume a portion of a larger health pool with each shot, would make the camp much harder on damage champions, while rewarding tankier junglers for toughing it out. There are more and different possibilities for tankiness, CC and utility to be more valuable in the jungle, but that's just an example of what could be.